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tures, not been able to discover sufficient" Grace's explanation, does not a person adoptgrounds for its adoption. Thus much has" ing and reading the Athanasian Creed apply "been said with respect to what may be de-" what has been called the damnatory clause to "rived as to its just interpretation from the" all persons who, having had a Christian edu"Creed itself. But if we look to the Articles" cation, do not believe in the Trinity and the "of our church, in which alone we can hope to "incarnation of the Redeemer ?" his Grace "find the true exposition of all her doctrines, we replied, "According to the explanation, I "shall find what has here been deduced from" have given, I think there may be supposable "reasoning still farther confirmed by their au- "circumstances under which he could not do thority. The Eighth Article, whilst it declares" so justly; and therefore, as I said before, the "that the three Creeds ought to be received and“ damnatory clause does not necessarily extend "believed, does so expressly upon the ground" to any entire local denomination of Christians "that they can be proved by most certain war- "whatsoever." When it was observed by a "rants of Scripture. At the same time that noble Lord, "Your Grace was understood to "our church sanctions the use of these Creeds," begin the parenthesis at the word 'For,' "it refers to Scripture as the ground on which" which would leave the damnatory clause ap"it sanctions them, and no other. And to that" plicable to those who do not believe in the same Scripture does another Article refer for "doctrine of the Trinity ?" his Grace said, "the test and trial of all the doctrines which" Undoubtedly, so far as your Lordship's view "the church teaches. The Sixth Article says, " of it goes, leaving out all possible qualifying, "Holy Scripture containeth all things neces- "considerations, it would present the clause as 66 sary to salvation; so that whatsoever is not "applicable to those who do not believe in that "read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is "truth; and as it does of that, it does also of not to be required of any man that it should" the incarnation, and likewise of the whole body, "be believed as an article of the faith, or be" of the faith, presented in the formulary, any "thought requisite or necessary to salvation.'" one of the members of which being left out, "The two Articles, one referring to the authority" we conceive mutilates the Christian Creed, "which Scripture gives, and the other stating as given in the Scriptures; and as our Lord. "that the person who conscientiously acts under" has announced that the person who does not "that authority is exempted from any thing "believe is not to look for eternal salvation, "which might produce danger to his salvation, "they of course who conceive this to be the completely secure, as I conceive, the Creed and " great body of Christian truth contained in

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“the church itself against the charge of main-" Scripture, substantially comprising the belief

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taining a doctrine of exclusive salvation, in the" of which our Lord speaks, must in consesense in which it is invidiously applied to us, quence conclude, that to the rejection, the "and in which it is truly applied to the Church" criminal rejection of this faith, our Lord's "of Rome. At the same time it is to be noted, "denunciation against disbelief is justly to be. "that in that word 'conscientiously,' so much" applied. We leave every man to judge for “is included respecting the purity of the heart," himself, and to abide by the result of his own, "the sufficiency of the aids brought to the in- " sincere and conscientious search after the vestigation, the submissiveness and the docility" truth. We state what we hold to be the true "of the spirit, and the true Christian desire to "exposition of the Christian faith. We hold “discover the truth, free from any of those feel-" ourselves, and those who think with us, to bę "ings that connect themselves with a spirit of un- "liable to our Lord's denunciation, if we and belief, that it makes it a matter of awful peril" they do not abide by it firmly. It is a declarato the individual to reject any of those great "tion rather against apostacy or unwillingness “truths which the collective wisdom and piety" on the part of those who have had fair oppor " of the Christian church has pronounced, from" tunities of learning the true Christian Creed; its earliest age, to be so plainly and incon- " at the same time it is not intended, and we testably spread upon the surface of Scripture," declare that it is not intended, against those that it has not scrupled to pronounce the "who have not had such opportunities.”— On adoption of them indispensable to a Chris- a noble Lord's observing, " Therefore, if a man "tian's salvation. One thing is to be remem- "had once believed in the Trinity, the Re"bered by all, that there is a something, some "demption, and the Incarnation, would he not "truth or truths contained in the Gospel, the "lose all hope of salvation if he ceased to be"belief of which our Lord himself has pro- "lieve it ?" his Grace replied, "I cannot pre"nounced indispensable to salvation (to the "sume to enter into the measurement of the salvation of such, of course, as have had those " mercies of God Almighty. If a man makes a “truths made known to them). Now, as every" change in his mind, in the truly conscientious "Christian must have some scheme that he exercise of his judgment, and seeking the must admit it is necessary for him to believe," best means of information with the due humi"it behoves him to consider, at his peril, whe-" lity, and a true desire to find the truth, our "ther a scheme taking in all the great leading" principle, which would concede safety to the "truths of the Gospel can safely be rejected."" conscientious person who differs from us ́at. -To the following question: "After 66 your first, would concede it likewise to a like con

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"scientious person who departed from us after under his knowledge in Ireland; the rest he "he had adopted our Creed: the question turns had found very exemplary men, very attentive "entirely upon the grounds on which he for- to their duties, and very active to preserve the "sook the faith he had embraced. Our system peace and to maintain loyalty. He believed "of belief, which admits the right of private them to be as loyal a class as any other in Ire"judgment, necessarily makes all dependent land. The country in general was very insufupon the due and honest exercise of that ficiently provided both with Catholic chapels "right; it wants the simplicity of that system and Protestant churches. The lower classes in "which at once pronounces a man to be out of some parts of Ireland were in a wretched state; "the pale of salvation, because he is out of the they were very desirous of employment, and he "pale of a particular church, having the doc- was sure that in the event of any description of "trines of that church made known to him.”. manufactory being established in the parts of There were but few Socinians in Ireland com- the country with which he was acquainted, the pared with England, and in the one country, as lower classes would do their utmost to learn and in the other, they disingenuously called them- pursue it. Although property was still much selves Unitarians, for the purpose of giving subdivided in the neighbourhood of his Lordthemselves a greater appearance of extent and ship's residence, he thought the principle of number. Although he should be very sorry to subdivision to be upon the whole greatly retropronounce peremptorily on the subject, the ten-grading. He thought the lower classes would dency of the doctrines of the Roman Catholic be very reluctant to give up the 40s. freeholds church respecting absolution, confession, and exclusive salvation, did seem to him of a nature calculated to disqualify the individual under their influence for a proper and cordial submission to the laws in a Protestant state, and, in certain cases, to endanger the loyalty which he owed to his prince. He did not think that there was any thing in the doctrines of the Protestant religion that could prevent a Protestant from being a faithful subject of a Roman Catholic king. The expressions in the oath taken by all Roman Catholic bishops, which appeared to be intended to reconcile spiritual obedience to the pope with a perfect obedience to the sovereign, he thought were ambiguous. At the same time, although it was a part of the subject on which he felt himself incompetent, he did not see, as far as oaths were concerned, why matters might not be made satisfactory. It was difficult to conceive why, as the Catholic priest permitted to himself a relaxation of the oath of allegiance in not divulging a confession of intended treason, he might not permit to himself a relaxation of the oath in other respects; but he conceived, that if the oath unequivocally described all those cases to which its obligation was not to be supposed to extend, and that then it were to be taken in a perfectly unqualified sense with regard to all others, there would be no danger of being drawn into contradiction as to the duty to the church and the duty to the state.

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by which they were benefited, to carry Catholic emancipation, by which, in his opinion, those classes could not be benefited. He thought land at the present moment more fairly let in Ireland than it had been heretofore. The tenant who held immediately from the head landlord was invariably much better off than the tenant who held under a middle-man. There were some regulations made by the Commis. sioners of Customs, especially regarding the landing of coals, which in his opinion had retarded, and would continue to retard, the general improvement of the country. The lower orders in Ireland were very anxious for education; but some of the schoolmasters were exceedingly bad characters. The Catholic priesthood in general were very anxious to promote education. Three hundred to one of his tenants were Roman Catholics. He thought they were improving in condition. They paid their rent at least as well as his Protestant tenantry. The establishment of the petty sessions had been most beneficial. A great many magistrates had lately been dismissed. Unfortunately, some good ones had been dismissed, and some bad ones retained. The system of grand juries appeared to his Lordship to require revision. The last Tithe Composition Act he thought likely to be beneficial.

The Hon. and Venerable ARCHDEACON TRENCH. Had been about three years archThe Right Hon. GEORGE, EARL OF deacon of Ardagh. Resided in the county of KINGSTON. Was fifty-four years of age, and Galway, where he thought that within the last had been acquainted with Ireland ever since he seven years the Protestant population had incould remember. The rebellion of 1798 did creased in proportion to the Roman Catholic. not originate in any hostility on the part of the Many new churches had been built in that part Catholics to the Protestants; it began with the of Ireland. Many Catholics went to the ProProtestants; and was, like the French revolu- | testant church. Catholics generally did not tion, a rebellion against all existing authorities, think Protestants heretics. It was only the and against the crown. The subsequent dis- bigot, a character he seldom encountered, that turbances had been chiefly on the ground of so thought. The Catholics and Protestants in tithes and rent. As far as he had seen, the his part of the ecuntry lived on the most friendly conduct of the Catholic priesthood in relation' terms. He found no greater difficulty in obto those disturbances had been very excellent. | taining his tithes from the Catholics than fromm There was but one bad priest who had ever come 'the Protestants; but it was unpleasant pro

ought to give every security which they could give, consistently with conscience, to our Protestant establishment, our Protestant king, and our Protestant country. As to the 40s. freeholder in Connaught, he did not care for his privilege a farthing. In fact, the 40s. freeholders were absolutely driven to the election town by the landlord or his agent. The introduction of the petty sessions into Ireland was a noble measure: and the law was well adminis. tered by the magistrates, compared with former times.

THOMAS BROWNE, Esq.-Lived in Tuam. Although one of the poorest parts of Ireland, the sum of 1,5001. had been laid upon the Union for the repairs of the cathedral. No previous estimate was formed. The Archbishop took it all on himself. He went to the vestry, and said that he must levy 1,5007., whether the parish liked it or not; although it was objected that the dean and chapter had property applicable to that purpose. The entire of the assessment fell on Roman Catholics. It was understood that the Union was about to be cessed again for the building of a new church, four or five miles from Tuam, although it was not probable that more than four or five Protestants would attend it.

perty. Wherever there was a good landlord, | be made clear, and he would most happily open and a good Protestant clergyman, any improper the door; but in order to render it safe, they influence on the part of the Romish priest would always diminish. There were five schools near his residence, in which the children of Catholics and Protestants were educated without the slightest difference. He did not think that the lower orders in his neighbourhood approved of or contributed much to the Catholic rent; nor did he believe that the exclusion under which the body of Roman Catholics generally laboured ever came across their minds. In the district with which he was acquainted, he had observed that Popery had had a check; which he principally attributed to a good landlord, a faithful and active ministry, and a gospel education for youth. As minor measures for improving the condition of the people of Ireland, he strongly recommended the establishment of dispensaries, for giving gratuitously medicine and medical advice to the lower orders; penitentiaries, for restraining the licentious; and lunatic asylums. Some allowance ought also, he thought, to be afforded by law to the mothers of illegitimate children. He would also advise (though with trembling, knowing how unpopular the subject was in Ireland) a partial introduction of poor laws, leaving it perhaps to the vestries to assess the rate, and to determine the amount of relief. The whole of the financial part of grand jury presentments appeared to him to require revision. Education also, but restrictive education, education under the restraint of religion, was a most desirable object. The venality of the subsheriffs, which rendered the recovery of debts in many cases impracticable, was likewise a matter that loudly called for interference. Whether or not the removal of the civil disabilities under which the Roman Catholics laboured would tend generally to the advantage and improvement of Ireland, must depend on the way in which it was done. An endeavour must be made to satisfy all parties, and if there was one security better than another which the Roman Catholic could offer to the Protestant, he was bound to offer it. If the measure were carried in the way in which he conceived it might be carried, it would, in his humble opinion, be beneficial to Ireland; but he owned that he was not friendly to the bill then before the House of Commons. He would precede all other measures by a message to Rome; there to ascertain what agreement or what concordat the spiritual bead of the Roman Catholic religion would authorise on his part; and armed with such a document as that, which he anticipated would be most favourable, the repeal of disabilities might safely follow. If such an embassy did not succeed, it would only be to spread the reply before the nation, and to shew that the trial had been made. He was no friend to any restraint whatever being put upon the Romanists. The question entirely rested upon whether it was safe to restore them. Let that

His Grace the ARCHBISHOP of DUBLIN again examined. Presented a return of the dissolution of the union of parishes in Ireland; by which it appeared that 94 perpetual cures had been created in Ireland, and of course so many additional benefices formed, since 1800. There were two tenets in the third canon of the fourth Council of Lateran, which his Grace conceived made a Roman Catholic unfit for holding any situation of trust or power in a Protestant state. They were, that the subject might be absolved from his allegiance to his lord, be he of what rank he might; and that the lord was bound, under the orders of the council, to exterminate all those that were pronounced heretic from his dominions; and if he did not so, a Catholic lord was to enter and take possession of the country, provided he would discharge the duty due to the head of that church, and exterminate those heretics. He denied that it had been shewn by Collier that that canon never formed part of the Council of Lateran; and asserted that it had been confirmed by the Council of Trent, and acted upon in several instances. That tenet which related to not keeping faith with heretics was decisively confirmed by the Council of Constance. So late as 1791, an evangelical letter had been published, which intimated the continuing influence of the spiritual over the temporal authority. The Roman Catholic gentry of England appearing in large numbers to have signed a declaration which tended very much to national cordiality, were by that letter called under the judgment

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of the vicars apostolic, who pronounced that bellion began with the Protestants, it after. that must not be done; that the declaration wards assumed the exclusive character of a they had made in respect to any new oath, or Popish rebellion. He had little doubt that any new declaration, must not be submitted to; many of the Roman Catholic clergy were enthat they should not subscribe any new instru- gaged in forwarding that rebellion; and there ment, wherein the interests of religion were was no doubt whatever that some of them were concerned, without the previous approbation actually and openly concerned in the field. His of their respective bishops, and the required | Grace was unable, however, to state any par. submission to their determinations. At the ticular instance; and admitted that the Roman same time, there was issued from the vicars apostolic, "The theological judgment of the “ Catholic divines of the midland district, on "the two bills then pending in Parliament," containing this passage: — "Though we our"selves, in the oath of 1791, above cited, have “abjured the doctrine and position that princes, "excommunicated or deprived by the Pope, or 66 any authority of the See of Rome, may be "deposed or murdered by their subjects, &c., yet, following the doctrine and example of our "predecessors, who (chiefly on account of the 66 extravagant and false terms therein con“tained, in King James's oath of allegiance) "refused the same, we declare that it is utterly "unlawful, and contrary to the doctrine of our "church, for a Catholic to condemn upon oath "the mere deposing doctrine as damnable and "heretical. With respect to the bills of pains "and penalties against their clergy with which 66 some modern Catholics are content to pur"chase civil advantages for themselves, we "declare, 1st, that we, the clergy, cannot con"scientiously take the oath prepared for us, in "the terms in which it stands in the bill; 4 because, however remote we are from all "traitorous conspiracies against the establishments of our country, whether civil or eccle"siastical, yet we cannot bind ourselves never "to have any correspondence or communication "with the Pope, or the See of Rome, or with "any persons authorised by the Pope' (which "words comprehend all the Catholic clergy of “ the United Kingdom), ، tending directly or | "indirectly to overthrow or disturb the Pro“testant church,' inasmuch as, in our judgment, "all our preaching, writing, and ministering "tend indirectly to this effect." There was at the present day, a class of publications going through the country, which spoke rather emphatically the general sort of language to which he had been directing their Lordships' attention. His Grace instanced "An Appeal of "the Catholics of Ireland to the People of "England," bearing the signature of N. P. O'Gorman, Secretary to the Catholics of Ireland; and "Letters on the State of Ireland, "by J. K. L." In his opinion, the Pope's spiritual authority in Ireland intermixed itself most generally through the concerns of the Roman Catholics of that country. Whether right or wrong, he could not help connecting the rebellious conduct of many persons in Ireland, in 1798, with the influence of their connexion with the church of Rome. Although that re

Catholic archbishops and bishops of Ireland had addressed the persons in their communion in a most loyal manner, advising them to pursue a loyal and proper conduct, and to support the Government against the rebels. There were two other canons of the third Council of Lateran, the sixteenth and twenty-seventh, which bore strongly on the subject under consideration. The first pronounced, that oaths were not to be esteemed such, but rather perjuries, which were adverse to the interests of the church; the second decreed remission of sins to be granted to those who pursued heretics to slavery and destruction. His Grace, undoubtedly, apprehended danger to the establishment from any further concessions being made to the Catholics in the present state of things. Whether he would recommend that the concessions which had been already made should be withdrawn, was a vast question, which could not be answered without the deepest deliberation.

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ARTHUR IRWIN KELLY, Esq.-Was sovereign of Armagh, and agent of the Lord Primate. The better description of Protestants in Ireland wished for any measure that might restore the country to tranquillity; and, as Catholic ermancipation might possibly lead to that result, the more thinking part were not unfriendly to Catholic emancipation, on qualified and fair terms. Both the regulation of the elective franchise, and the payment of the Roman Catholic priests, were considered by the Protestants as calculated to be conducive to the welfare and tranquillity of the country.

The Rev. THOMAS WILLIAM DIXON.-Had been a Roman Catholic priest, but in 1818 changed from the Roman Catholic persuasion from a conviction of error. He was fully acquainted with the principles instilled into the priesthood in Ireland, and thought it impossible to distinguish between temporal and spiritual allegiance to the Pope, because the line of obedience was not defined. Whenever the two allegiances, to the sovereign temporally, and to the Pope spiritually, clashed, the Pope's had decidedly a paramount power over the other. The doctrine of obedience to the Pope, regarding him as the spiritual head of the church, was taught at Maynooth; a full obedience to him, în spiritual matters only, but no person knew what those spiritual matters were. There was an oath in which that obedience was expressed. He could not exactly recall the words of the oath; but when he took it, the impression on his mind was, that when they clashed, the obe

dience to the Pope should certainly counter- the country, and to contribute the influence balance any obedience to a temporal sovereign, | which from his station he had over the people, where the executive law of the land should not to the assistance of the civil magistrate. The force him into action. The Romish church answer he got was, "What have you to do held that its doctrine was immutable. He" with the civil magistrate? Let them look believed that if the Roman Catholics were to "after the peace of the country-you have enter into any compact, and declare their will-" your duty." He had offered the evidence ingness to abide by any declaration, which, which he now gave voluntarily, to contradict having been previously stipulated, should be positions which he thought were not exactly the enacted into a law, the Pope, by his authority, truth. He had not any prospect of provision could compel them to renounce that agreement. in the Established Church, except what his own The general mass of the Roman Catholics be- activity in looking for a curacy, or occasional lieved that the priests could absolve them duty, might furnish him with. without repentance. About a year prior to his leaving the communion of the church of Rome, some disturbance beginning to make its way into his neighbourhood, he suggested to the Roman Catholic bishop, that he thought it the duty of every priest to identify himself as much as possible with the preservation of the peace of

JOHN LESLIE FOSTER, Esq., M. P., again examined.-Delivered in the following summary of the results of all the returns made on oath by many thousands of the clergy, both of the Protestant and of the Roman Catholic persuasion :