buildings and machinery. He believed that | neighbourhood of Leeds would altogether proyarns of any fineness might be wove by ma- bably occupy as much capital as he had been chinery: to what extent of fineness he did not describing. They spun a coarser sort of yarn, indeed know; perhaps 3s. or 4s. a yard, of yard- and they purchased upon credit, generally of the wide linen, was as fine as had yet been woven merchants of Hull, the importers of flax from by machinery. He was not accurately acquainted Russia. To manufacture five hundred tons of with the manufacture of linen cloth, but he mill-spun yarn of a coarser description, would should suppose their finest yarn would be about require a capital as great as theirs, if they con the price of 3s. or 4s. per yard, yard-wide, when ducted their business in the same manner; but manufactured. He could not give any accurate if they purchased their raw material upon six opinion upon the comparative cheapness, as con- months' credit, and sold the yarn for money, trasted between the machine-wove linen and they would require no floating capital; they the loom-wove linen, to which the machine- would require only the capital that was exwove linen would be reduced; the machine-pended on the mill and machinery. They did wove linen would cost less in wages. He could not transact any business with the importing not speak with any accuracy as to how much merchants for flax; they sent out their own it would lessen the price. The difference be- agent to purchase in the country where it was tween machine-spun linen yarn and hand-spun grown; in the interior of Flanders. They imlinen yarn, of the same grist, in price, was from ported all themselves; their agents paying with 10 to 15 per cent. The machine yarn sold at cash in the country. Their agents bought the the higher price. And yet the weavers in flax in the country at the markets, and also at Yorkshire were contented to pay that additional the farmers' houses. There were many other price for the mill-spun yarn; but only for their mills than those he had described (the seven or warps. For the wefts they used the hand-spun eight at Leeds, and the one at Shrewsbury) in yarn principally; German and Prussian yarn for different parts of England; some in the north the wefts. The German and Prussian yarn was of Yorkshire. The introduction of those mills all hand-spun. The price of mill-spun yarn was had nearly extinguished the hand-spinning in from 10 to 15 per cent higher than the hand- Yorkshire. Heretofore the hand-spinning was spun yarn, because it was spun of a much better conducted by women. He believed the young material. The superior quality of the mill-spun women were now employed in weaving cotton yarn over the hand-spun yarn consisted in its in the north of Yorkshire, instead of spinning. being much stronger, on account of the material | A great deal of the finer sorts of yarns in Scotfrom which it was spun, and the evenness of the land was entirely spun by hand. He believed yarn. There was considerably more care taken the spinners did not grow their own flax, or in preparing the flax for mill-spinning than for scarcely any; the flax was principally Dutch the common spinning; it was better dressed, and Flemish flax; it was hackled by the manu and better hackled. A great part therefore of facturer, and sent out in that state to different the rough flax went to the tow, to the refuse; parts of the country to spin. The manufacturer and the flax that would be spun by the hand to supplied the spinner with flax, and took the flax one hundred cuts they spun to forty. With back in the shape of thread, paying the wages for regard to the difference of produce that there spinning. They sold some yarn for the use of would be between two equal quantities of rough the manufacture of linen in Ireland; but not flax, the one being spun by hand, and the other to much extent. When they sent yarn to Ireby machinery, he thought the produce in yarn land, they reeled it purposely the same as the of the hand-spinning would be twice as much in Irish reel, otherwise it would be liable to seizure. length as the mill-spinning; in the finest sorts If the regulations were removed which at preit certainly would, but not in the coarser sorts sent made it liable to seizure, it might, in some of flax. The amount of capital which would degree, increase the demand for the English be required, including buildings and machinery mill-spun yarn in Ireland; but he should think of every description, to put an establishment of not materially. The Irish regulation formed such an extent as their own into full work, some impediment to persons willing to purchase would depend a good deal upon the mode in English mill-spun yarn, because it obliged the which the flax was purchased. If they pur- spinner to reel it purposely for that market, chased the flax as they did, it required a capital which was not liked in the English market. of 250,000/; they purchased their flax of the Yarn was sold in England by the bundle, congrowers at the time it was brought into market taining a certain number of yards. There was in the winter, which supplied them for the year not any regulation by act of parliament respect. to come; any manufacturer who should pur- ing the sale of yarn in England; the trade was chase his flax of a merchant on credit, would, of perfectly at liberty in all respects. It was sold course, require a smaller capital; the buildings in England according to a certain weight and a and machinery would require about 100,0007.; certain length; it was sold by the length, but not in addition to the 250,000, but as part of the weight was also specified. In ascertaining the 250,000l. They bought from the foreign the value, the length was more depended upon growers. The seven or eight other mills in the than the weight; therefore the bundles were all

of the same length, and the price varied a little, price was higher than the Irish yarn; and he in proportion to the weight, but not materially. should suppose the English manufacturer would The exact weight and the exact length were weave it as cheap as it would be wove in Ireland, preserved, and the whole transaction went on and therefore the English manufacturers would between the buyer and seller without any legis- have the advantage, if they bought their yarns, lative interference. He was not sufficiently ac- over the Irish manufacturers, supposing they quainted with the state of the trade in Scotland both used the same yarns. The English manuto give an opinion respecting it. It was probable facture had increased very considerably within that in cases where yarn was made by the pea- the last ten years. The Scotch manufacture santry generally through the country in Ireland, had also increased considerably. It promised to it might be necessary to have rules to secure become still more extensive. Unless spinning that that yarn should not be made up fraudu- machinery were introduced into Ireland, he lently, which would not be applicable to manu- thought that the British manufacture would factories upon a large scale; but he was not a increase. Comparing the state of the manujudge of that. He should certainly consider facture between Ireland and England and Scottheir character as responsible for the description land, it was his opinion that it was likely to of yarn that they sent, bearing their name, or make progress in England and Scotland, and to coming from their manufactory. He should think fall off in Ireland; unless the same mechanism their character responsible for the yarn being of were introduced into Ireland. The management the full count that they described it, and the of the Scotch and English manufacture, espefull quality. They sold their yarn not in any cially of the former, was, he thought, superior market, but to manufacturers. He considered to the Irish. In his opinion, that arose princiselling the yarn by length a more eligible mode pally from the flax being grown in Ireland, and of selling it for the purchaser than selling it by purchased and spun in small quantities by the weight. The value of yarn depended upon its country people, which he thought a great adlength; the same length was nearly of the same vantage which Ireland had over Great Britain. value, although of different weight, and there- The manufacture, particularly the weaving, fore the sale by length was much more accurate. would be carried on to much more advantage in If a bundle of yarn were made up, weighing a Ireland if the manufacture were upon a large certain weight, he did not think that a portion scale, than as it was at present. It would be of it might be of a certain fineness, and the re- better that a large capitalist should employ a mainder of a much coarser quality, without the number of weavers to weave for him, than that purchaser being able to discover it, if he bought the weavers should individually weave on their it by weight. The difficulty of selling by weight own account, and take their work to the markets. was, that the weight varied according to the The Scotch were more upon that plan, and it state of the atmosphere, as much as five per cent. was better, he thought. His reason for enterA regulation might certainly be made, allowing taining that opinion was, that it was by a British yarn to come into the Irish market as superior division of labour; the process of subBritish yarn, bearing the name of the manu- division could take place to a greater amount facturer, still allowing Irish yarn to be sold in in a manufactory, than when the manufacture the Irish market under the existing regulations. was divided over the face of the country. He thought however that it would be difficult Probably the want of capital might prevent the to distinguish British yarn from Irish yarn, if manufacture getting into the same state in the former were to be admitted into Ireland; it Ireland that it was in Scotland; but he ought would be, perhaps, difficult to keep the regu- to say that it had been brought into the state in lations respecting Irish yarns. There would be which it was chiefly from the flax being grown some difficulty in distinguishing mill-spun yarn in Ireland, and small quantities being hackled from hand-spun yarn; but not much. He and spun by the country people. He was not at thought it would be the interest of the Irish all acquainted with the regulations that the manufacturer to admit yarns of every descrip- legislature had enacted on the subject of the tion. Their mill-spun yarn, after it was spun, Irish trade. As an abstract question, he would was made up in bundles, containing two hundred account for the circumstances he had stated to cuts of three hundred yards each. Their yarn exist more from the poverty of the country, and was spun upon a bobbin; and when the bobbin the want of capital, than from any legislative was full, it was cut off. It was reeled in cuts of enactment. Formerly weavers used to get a three hundred yards. That was the custom of good deal of yarn spun by hand. The yarn was the trade; the Irish cut was three hundred never exposed in the market; it was always yards as well as theirs; the Irish was one hun- sent by the manufacturers to be spun, giving dred and twenty threads of two and a half yards certain wages for spinning it. He should suplong, and theirs was one hundred threads of pose about twenty thousand tons of flax were three yards long. His reason for thinking that consumed in manufacture in Ireland within a if the British mill-spun yarn were admitted into year. As to the quantity consumed in Scotland Ireland he did not believe that it would be im- in a year in manufacture, he did not know the ported in any great quantity, was, because the difference between Scotland and England; in

Great Britain, he believed, there was above | among those individuals with whom he was thirty thousand tons. Much the greater part of conversant, principally those in the same line of what was manufactured in Great Britain was business with himself, to go over and embark consumed at home. He had no means of ex- their capital in the construction of those mills; actly informing the Committee what quantity of he apprehended that the spinning could be flax was used in Great Britain about twenty carried on to more advantage in England than years ago; he should suppose about from twenty in Ireland, notwithstanding that the wages to twenty-five thousand tons. He was of opi- were higher in England, merely on account of nion, that the general circumstances of Ireland the skill and experience of the workmen. He were not so favourable to the establishment of did not think that if those manufactories were mills for the spinning of yarn as those of Eng-established in Ireland, the skill of the Irish land or Scotland, on account of the difficulty of would be very soon equal to that of the English; procuring and managing machinery. He alluded in time it would be equal, no doubt. A con. to the workmanship of the machinery, the people siderable length of time was necessary to train not being sufficiently skilful in Ireland. There good workmen to such a business as he carried had been machines sent from Leeds to mills in on. He thought that if all the regulations in Ireland, but they had never succeeded much. Ireland were removed, it might be possible for There would not be any difference but the the buyers of yarn so to conduct the process of expense of carriage, and getting people suffi- making their purchases as to protect themselves ciently skilful to put up that machinery. The from frauds, without any legislative interference difficulty would be to obtain sufficiently skilful whatsoever; not however if it was sold in the workmen afterwards. He was not prepared to same way that it was now in the markets; but say what proportion of the thirty thousand tons in a short time he thought the trade would be of flax, which was now manufactured in Great put into another channel. The necessity of inBritain, was manufactured by machinery; he spection, in his opinion, arose from the law should suppose that half of it was spun by making it compulsory to sell yarn only in open machinery, or more than half. The existence market. He understood that in general the of regulations in Ireland, by which all yarn was Irish weaver carried his web to market, and forced to be sold in open market, and was liable sold it there, and purchased in the same market to seizure if not made up in a particular way, his yarn. He thought compelling the yarn to would contribute to deter English capitalists be sold in that way was a great inconvenience to from undertaking to establish spinning-mills in the trade. In his opinion the Scotch plan, of Ireland: it would be a great inconvenience, carrying on the weaving by persons of capital, because the spinners would generally wish to and giving out the yarn to weavers, and employsell it to the large manufacturer in large quan- ing weavers for the sole purpose of weaving the tities; but he did not know that the reeling cloth, was considerably better than the Irish would make any difference. If it was necessary system. He thought it would produce the article that it should be inspected and sold in open cheaper, from the division of labour. He thought market, it would be a great disadvantage to the the Scotch manufacturer had an advantage over spinner; they should certainly find it a very the Irish manufacturer, and the Scotch linen great inconvenience to themselves. He believed manufacture had an advantage over the Irish that hand-spun yarn, from the same quantity of linen manufacture, particularly now that they flax, would produce, in the finer sorts of spin- were introducing machinery to a large extent. ning, double the length to mill-spun yarn; and He had been in Ireland. He had been in the he had had that calculation in his mind when he north of Ireland. He had paid attention to the said that the mill-spun yarn was 15 per cent manufacture of linen, from the first process of dearer than the hand-spun yarn. Yet, not- sowing the flax-seed till it was manufactured withstanding that difference of length, there into the web. He had also observed the apwas only a difference of 15 per cent between pearance of the people there. He by no means two yarns of the same length; because the thought, taking them as a peasantry, that their expense of spinning was less by machinery than condition and appearance was superior to that by hand; it would employ ten or twelve times of those people who were engaged in large towns as many hands to spin the quantity of yarn that in the manufacture of cotton and linen im they spun. He believed that, at present, not England and Scotland: they were very superior two thousand of the thirty thousand ton of flax to the people in the middle and south of Ireland, used in Great Britain for the manufacture was but not to the English manufacturers, he grown in Great Britain; the rest was obtained thought. He was not aware that their happichiefly from Russia. Of that thirty thousand ness, and health, and robustness, and that ton, on the average, he should think about two natural vivacity which attended health, was thousand was produced in Ireland. He certainly much superior to that of persons confined in thought that mills, similar to those he was in close manufactories in England. He was unable the habit of employing, could be advantageously to say with precision whether the Scotch liner employed in Ireland, with the same skill and was superior to the Irish linen; he thought c workmen. He did not find any disposition was generally supposed to bear rather a higher

price, on account of the yarn being better spun; divided. He was aware that in that part of the spun from a better material, perhaps; it was country there existed very little of what could better hackled, he should think. Generally be called agricultural capital. He should not speaking, he thought that the Scotch linen was expect that altering the laws would have any superior to the Irish, the fine linen particularly; effect in removing the population from where the fine sheetings made at Edinburgh were they were, but merely upon the system of carrysuperior to the Irish. He should think the ing on the manufacture. He did not contemmanufacturers were quite as healthy and as plate any removal from the soil; he imagined happy when they were in large bodies, where the first effect of the restrictions being removed they were employed together in manufactories, would be, that some of the present small manuas when they were combining the trades of facturers would purchase the flax, and hackle it manufacturer and farmer, as in Ireland. He in a better way than it was done, put it out to did not know whether they were as moral; they the spinners, and pay them for the work they had a different class of vices certainly, but upon did. What he contemplated was, that there the whole he should think they were as moral; would be an improvement arise out of leaving they were certainly better informed. Supposing trade wholly to itself; that there was no necestwo countries possessed an equal facility of pro- sity to do any thing to induce it to take a spirited ducing or of purchasing the raw material of the course; but that the greatest benefit would arise manufacture, and supposing that in one country from leaving it to its own course. He anticithat manufacture was carried on entirely in pated no damage to the agricultural interest large buildings and manufactories; and in the from such a circumstance; he thought the man other it was carried on by a population half who grew his flax, instead of selling it in small agricultural and half manufacturing, he had no quantities, would sell it to a large manufacturer doubt that ultimately that country which carried who would keep men to hackle it, and would on the manufacture in manufactories would very put it out to spinners and weavers. In his considerably undersell the other; and therefore opinion, if there were a more complete subhe thought that Ireland certainly had reason to division of labour, and a more complete disexpect that the trade would increase in Scotland tinction between the agriculturists and the much more than in Ireland. No means occurred manufacturers, there would be a better chance to him by which that could be remedied or pre- of the introduction of capital; and better farmvented from occurring, except by pursuing the ing, in consequence of the exclusive attention of same system that they did in England. He the farmers to agricultural pursuits. That thought the regulations relating to the sale of would always be the effect of it. He should yarn, and the sale of linen, the establishment of suppose that, conducted as the linen trade was inspectors of yarn, seal masters, and other of- at present, it would be possible to remove all ficers, and a general code of interference with the the restrictions with safety to the linen purmanufacture, must naturally contribute to the chaser; but he was not aware of the particular continuation of the Irish system, and to the regulations. He was aware that the linen was prevention of the introduction of a superior manufactured entirely by the peasant, or the system. In his opinion, they were extremely farmer, at his own house. He was aware that prejudicial, and in fact prevented any manu- he afterwards took that linen, so manufactured, facture being established upon a proper scale. to market; and that he offered it, among thouA repeal of those regulations respecting the sands of other manufacturers, for sale to the stamping and sealing, and selling in the market, linen factor, who, perhaps, came from a great would necessarily throw the trade into a different distance to purchase publicly in the market. He channel in some degree; larger manufacturers was aware that a linen factor bought large quanwould spring up; and they would be able to tities in a short time. In the present state of carry on the trade to a greater extent than they the trade, it would be difficult, unless there was now could do. He was aware that the linen some regulation which obliged the manufacturer manufacture had been established since the year to submit his piece of linen to the inspection of 1632. He was aware that it had always been an inspector, for the linen factor to guard against carried on precisely in the same way. He ad- the impositions that might be practised on him mitted that it would be a very difficult thing to by any dishonest manufacturer, when he bought give up those habits which had been generated so much in a short time; but he apprehended by years and by centuries, for the purpose of the trade would get into a different state if those introducing a new mode of manufacture, and that regulations were removed; that instead of a it could be done only in a length of time; but the manufacturer bringing two or three pieces to first thing to do was to remove the obstruction market, he would employ several other weavers, to the trade being carried on differently. Speak- and bring forty or fifty. He was not acquainted ing of the manufacture of linens, he should with the regulations; probably they might be object to all regulations. He was aware that required to be removed gradually. If one of the land in the greatest part of the north of the regulations was, that all linen must be Ireland, where the linen manufacture existed, sold in open market within certain specified had been, by course of years, very much sub-hours in the course of a day, he thought that

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the necessity of buying so many pieces in so was now put on by the seal masters. He was short a time might arise from that particular not able to judge of the frauds that might regulation; and therefore that the grounds upon be committed, and the injuries that the trade which an inspection might appear to be neces- might sustain in the mean time. His imsary would be removed, if the law were to pression was, that recent inquiries into the suballow linens to be sold in the offices of the ject had contributed to shew that the general buyers on every day in the week, according to state of health of manufacturers living in towns the will and pleasure of the buyer and seller. was equally good with the state of health of He should suppose that what was meant in people living in the country. He thought that, Ireland by the offices of the buyers, was the in point of fact, there appeared to be reason to warehouses or places where they received the come to a conclusion that the contrary opinion goods. He was aware that the linen webs, was not altogether well founded. As far as he at the different markets in Ireland, were pur- had made observations with regard to the state chased by the linen bleachers; and that those and condition of manufacturers living in towns linen bleachers were very numerous over the in England, it was quite clear that their concountry. He was aware that the individuals dition was in every way superior to the agriwho collected and purchased for those linen cultural classes living in the country, with bleachers were in the habit of attending the respect to their habits, and particularly with different markets in Ireland, at the distance respect to their information and intelligence. even of thirty, forty, or sixty miles from each He thought the opinion unfounded, if it ever other. He was also aware that the weavers existed, that more immorality was to be found who attended the markets came from various where males and females were brought togedistances, inasmuch as the habitations of the ther in manufactories in very great numbers. country were interspersed, to sell those webs. He believed there was as much immorality in He could not, however, see from that state of the country villages in England as in any of the things that there would be great inconvenience manufacturing towns. As far as he was acto the linen buyer, as well as to the weaver, quainted with the Irish character, the parallel if it was required, instead of selling in open that he had drawn with respect to the manu market, that they should take their chance facturers of England and Ireland, was drawn of going to different bleach-yards, to sell their with a fair view of what the different position webs as they might be able; but he should of an Irishman and an Englishman was. The think it might be a great accommodation to repeal of the linen laws of Scotland had not both the weaver and the bleacher. He been attended with any bad consequences; he thought the weaver would have the same believed quite the reverse, as far as they were chance of getting a fair price for his web by repealed. He conceived the same system apgoing to a bleach-yard, where there was no plicable to trade in every country, as far as he competition, as he would have in open market, was able to judge. He had read books on where there might, perhaps, be from sixty to an political economy; he had attended Mr. M⭑Culhundred buyers; because he had also the choice lock's lectures. He was of opinion that in of taking it to open market if he could not get order to the general establishment of the printhe price that he demanded. He did not see ciples of political economists, it would be worth the necessity for abolishing the sale at open while to sacrifice a little, but not a great deal of market; but he would let the weaver have his present interest for that purpose, in trade and choice. It would certainly be advantageous to manufacture of every kind. He had turned his the Irish weaver to have the option of selling at attention much to the study of the science of either the market or the bleacher's green. He political economy; and as far as any experience was not aware that one benefit which he had he had had went, he certainly found that, in said he contemplated from a change of the point of practice, the adoption of the general system, viz. the weaver employing several per- principles of that science was advantageous to sons under him, practically existed in many parts the public interests. The repeal of the regu of Ireland at present. He had been in the lating laws with respect to the woollen macounty of Down. He had merely passed through nufacture had been generally considered serthe neighbourhood of Bannbridge and Lurgan. viceable by the manufacturers. He believed He knew, however, that there were several the Scotch manufacturers considered the repeal damask manufacturers, under the existing laws, of the Scotch linen laws as serviceable. He who employed weavers to work under them. believed that the principles of political economy But the existing laws retarded that practice were founded upon the consideration of nuvery much. He thought that it would take merous, constant, and uniform facts, bearing place to a much greater extent if the present upon the subjects to which they related, or were laws were repealed. He wished to constitute a made applicable. He was aware of the manner class of individuals whose character would be a ' in which the woollen trade was carried on in degree of security to the bleacher that he was the northern districts of England. Pieces of purchasing a good article; in fact, whose name' cloth were certainly brought to market by indi. would be as good a security as the stamp that vidual manufacturers, and exposed for sale as

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