vasion in which you, with force, bombed the walls of San Juan, very close to where we are now, and later invaded our island from the port of Guanica, and later imposed on Spain that was defeated in that war, you imposed on them the transfer of Puerto Rico as war bounty, as if we were merchandise that could be thrown about. This fact you have not erased from your history at this moment-and it is our intention to go back to this fact-if we are really going to decolonize.

For this reason, by supporting the presentation of Gallisa, I will not go into any of the details which have been sufficiently underlined, with the emphasis on the respect that a patriot always speaks and expresses things relating to his fatherland, and as he spoke to you this morning.

What I want to do is restrict my additional intervention to the problem of process. As you will see by this process of referendum that I speak on, with bill 710, 711, and 712, we are approaching a one-way street where we are again bumping into ourselves, where the congressional factions and of different factions that represent Puerto Rican public opinion for this reason.

So if you really have the intention of involving yourselves in the process of decolonizing Puerto Rico, then we propose to you an alternate process to that which you have begun, which could very well be established through amendments to the legislation that is already on the way. The procedure would consist that each one would have to comply with the functions that are incumbent in settling this great mess, the mess that the annexionists and the procommonwealth forces have been enmeshed, even though you are the ones who have started this mess.

What you have to do is comply with the international mandate of transferring to the people of Puerto Rico the full authority, that you have been using these people for 91 years, so that we as Puerto Ricans can freely deliberate, discuss, and conclude whatever it is that we will decide in including everybody today that has come to speak to you. This is why in order for this process to work, you must resign-the Congress of the United States must resign jurisdiction, and that would be proof that you are really seeking decolonization.

And at the same time, a deliberative body of Puerto Ricans would agree on a proposal for the international and, in particular, the political body that might be created with the other political body, that is, yourselves. And this commission, this deliberative body, would at the same time have the function * and the representatives by the different branches of power in the United States.

* *

There has to be. That is the only way in which in harmonious fashion the process of decolonization can be carried out.

In the Bar Association of Puerto Rico we have many different representatives from different parties, even though they might be antagonistic to each other, and they have come to speak here and in the Washington hearings. If this procedure continues, then we could reach a consensus of all the parties involved in this decision, including the United States and the different branches of government, and the political parties that control political life in the United States and in Puerto Rico, the political parties in Puerto

Rico, the different branches of government in Puerto Rico and social forces in general. Outside of this there is no possibility of a

consensus.

And it would be a waste of time to continue to insist on a referendum, that you would see in the present San Juan that the Popular Democratic Party, as well as the Independence Party, have made clear their positions that indicate that the project, as it appears now, they would not participate, either of the two parties, in this referendum. And when the process gets more involved, you will see that it will be more difficult each day to carry out this process of referendum that you wish to carry out.

I would like to make clear that the independence-seeking sector of Puerto Rico that custodies the national values of our country, of our fatherland, will not settle for anything less than the complete transferrence of powers to our people, and freely exercised sovereignty by the Puerto Rican people, in which case, then, those of us that believe in annexation prevail, and then they could freely become part of the United States.

If those who believe in some sort of association with the United States would prevail, then through some treaty they could associate themselves with the United States. But outside of that, there is no possibility of making international law and American law agree. American law has permitted the anomaly of this country that was born as the first decolonized nation of America should today be insisting on being the last country that resists the process of decolonization of the world.

Tomorrow, thousands of independentistas will march by you. You will hear them, you will see them. You will see that this fatherland of ours is not-you will not be able to assimilate it, that it has a vitality and a power of resistance superior to all the tricks and deception that might be carried out at the level of the United States Congress or whatever, if you intend to smother an identity that has been able to resist the overwhelming eventuation of 91 years of incessant colonialism that you have imposed by the power of arms on our people.

Thank you very much.

The CHAIRMAN. As I understand it, you want for us first to give Puerto Rico independence and then have the people of Puerto Rico decide as to status?

Mr. BRAS. First, to straighten out the problem that caused everything, which was your intervention-

The CHAIRMAN. Excuse me. If you could just give me a yes or no. Is that correct?

Mr. BRAS. No, not correct, because you are not the ones who could give us independence. Independence is given by natural right. You must recognize the fact that we are a nation which is duly constituted, that we are not an invention of anyone. That is a people that has been based on 500 years of history.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I must have misunderstood. I thought that you first wanted to get independence and then have a vote. I take it you do not endorse a process whereby the people of Puerto Rico would have the right to choose between independence, statehood, and commonwealth.

Mr. BRAS. I am not going to support the process by which you would condition, as you are conditioning in these bills, the decisions of the people of Puerto Rico where you can, as arbitrators, sit down and tell Romero Barcelo these are the conditions that we are willing to accept statehood, and to Hernandez Colon to break down his montage of the culmination or enhancement of the commonwealth, and Ruben Berrios, tell him how you are willing to leave our social security checks for us, because that is not your power. You have to guarantee the right of the social security pensionees in independence, because that is a vested right.

In studying these alternatives as pro counsels, I do not accept that.

The CHAIRMAN. In the testimony in Washington I asked Mr. Berrios the question, "If the Puerto Rican people opted for independence, would it not be appropriate then to have them make a choice as to citizenship, American citizenship or Puerto Rican citizenship?" Then there followed an exchange, and then Senator Berrios made this answer, "I can assure you that all of the independentistas will renounce American citizenship the next day after independence.

My question is: Do you agree with that statement?

Mr. BRAS. Yes. There is no doubt that this would be so-the independence people of Puerto Rico would assume with pride at the instant that the republic is proclaimed the citizenship of the Republic of Puerto Rico. But the independence people and other Puerto Ricans who live in the United States shall have to decide which of the two citizenships they will choose at a given moment, that they must make a definition; because they have established a modus vivendi in the United States, and we do not pretend to force them to convert themselves into foreigners in a country where they reside. But the independence proponents would guarantee to those Puerto Ricans that the moment they return to Puerto Rico, whenever it is in the course of their lives, they can enjoy the full citizenship of the Republic of Puerto Rico, even though they have maintained themselves as North American citizens there. And that is a problem that is of our interest and not the United States.

The CHAIRMAN. In the event of independence, would you expect the United States to continue to give 936 benefits, social security benefits, foodstamps, et cetera?

Mr. BRAS. Not only do I expect it, but I am sure because the acquired rights cannot be denied, and the right that I have when I receive social security benefits as a beneficiary of social security is one that I acquired by paying into that fund as a person during my entire useful life, and no one can take that away from me. At least that is what the Constitution of the United States says when they say that nobody's property can be taken from them without due process of law. So this is a problem, not something that you can give or take away. You must guarantee that.

The CHAIRMAN. Suppose someone has paid in but has not yet retired. What do you envision as his rights?

Mr. BRAS. Oh, in the case of people who are not beneficiaries at the moment of the transfer of power, in that case what must be done is to reach an agreement on the return to the Republic of Puerto Rico of the funds which have been accumulated by our con

tributions, so that we can continue our own system of social security as any other country does. And that would include the amounts paid by those who have not yet begun to enjoy the benefits of their pensions.

The CHAIRMAN. I take it, the Puerto Rican Independence Party and Senator Berrios does not speak for you?

Mr. BRAS. Yes, Senator Berrios talks for me, he speaks for me. The CHAIRMAN. At least up to this point I think he has endorsed this process, at least up to this point.

Mr. BRAS. I do not believe so. I believe he was very cautious in his answers to Senator McClure, and he told him specifically that he was not committing his party to participate in this process, and that the criteria would be if the process is decolonizing, when it is finally defined, the Independence Party would opt to participate. But if it is not, the Independence Party will not make legitimate a process which will sustain a colonial system.

And that has been the position which has been stated here and there by the independence proponents, because we have a way of speaking which is equal before the entire world. What we tell you, we tell the people of Puerto Rico, and we tell the international community. We do not speak in one way to one and a different way to others. And I think Senator Berrios has been very clear, and that is why we are going to march together in the march before

you.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, as I understood Senator Berrios, he did not guarantee to participate in the election process, but I certainly thought he was participating at least in the congressional process. After all, we just approved legislation yesterday which granted the Independence Party $500,000 in order to participate. If it is not participating, I do not know what those funds are for.

Mr. BRAS. The Independence Party is participating in the process of definition of the options. And let me tell you, this half a million dollars you offered to the parties to define the options and the definitions in the past, and the half a million dollars did not appear. So now you are bringing this, and you want to place as a condition that they will participate in the election. Then you can be sure that not even for half a million dollars or all the million dollars that the Treasury of the United States could issue, no independence proponent will participate in a process that will validate the colony.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator McClure.

Senator MCCLURE. Let me make a couple of brief statements. And I do not know that I can hope to persuade you. For myself, I want to give the people of Puerto Rico a very real choice, and I want them to respect that choice when they make it.

I hope that the people who seek independence will participate in that process so that indeed, when a choice is made, it will be a valid choice by the majority of the Puerto Rican people. I understood the previous witness to say it is impossible to get a free election at this time. I hope that is not correct. I hope the people of Puerto Rico can indeed have a free choice and make an informed choice.

Now, having said that, I do not know whether I should go ahead and make the next statement or not, but I am going to try. With

respect to Social Security benefits-and I think everybody should be very clear about this-the Social Security system of the United States is not a funded system. The benefits you receive when retiring may be measured by the contributions which you made while employed; but you are not getting back the contributions which you made, as would be true in a normal insurance system in which you make payments into a fund, those payments are then invested, and when it comes to retirement age, you get back what you put in.

As a matter of fact, the Social Security system in the United States is and always has been built on a different premise than that, and that is, that those who are employed will, while they are employed, pay into a system which then pays out to those who are retired. And it depends upon current employment coverage to pay into this system, to pay for those benefits which others then receive.

As one member of the Senate, I do not conceive that it is possible that Puerto Rico could, under any circumstances, receive the benefits of retirement_payments at a time when those who are employed in Puerto Rico are not paying into the system. That is not the way the system works. It does not work for anyone else in the United States that way, and I do not believe that the workers in Idaho are going to want to contribute to a system in order to pay to someone else while that recipient group is not then contributing to the system.

Mr. BRAS. Nothing of what you have said, Senator, is incompatible with what I have said about social security. Both things are compatible. What happens, Senator, is that you and I speak different languages, not only regarding the fact that I speak Spanish and you speak English, but also about the perspective of colonization and decolonization.

You have all the powers of the colonizer and you speak as such with us. Well, I have the complete freedom of somebody who has been colonized but who has dedicated his life to fight for decolonization of his people.

Senator MCCLURE. What you have said about the Social Security payments is totally different, not just in Spanish but also in English, from what I have said. The point that I am trying to make is that at a time a group of people are receiving benefits, another group of people are covered in their employment and paying in.

I do not believe it is conceivable that Congress will adopt a provision by which Puerto Ricans will be able to receive the benefits while Puerto Ricans are not paying into the system simultaneously.

Mr. BRAS. I am telling you that that is so.

Senator MCCLURE. And I just want to be very clear on that, as my own perspective.

Mr. BRAS. That may be as you say, but that does not take away from what I said, that the people have already accumulated the right to receive pensions and who are receiving pensions, they must continue to receive these pensions, be that whether Puerto Rico is a republic, a state, or whatever it is, because this is an acquired right that nobody can revoke. And I know of people, Senator, who live in Cuba, in socialist Cuba, who receive social security