INVESTIGATION OF IMPROPER ACTIVITIES IN THE LABOR OR MANAGEMENT FIELD TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 5, 1957 UNITED STATES SENATE, SELECT COMMITTEE ON IMPROPER ACTIVITIES Washington, D. C. The select committee met at 10 a.m., pursuant to Senate Resolution 74, agreed to January 30, 1957, in the caucus room, Senate Office Building, Senator John L. McClellan (chairman of the select committee) presiding. Present: Senator John L. McClellan, Democrat, Arkansas; Senator Karl E. Mundt, Republican, South Dakota. Also present: Robert F. Kennedy, chief counsel; P. Kenneth O'Donnell, assistant counsel; Irwin Langenbacher, assistant counsel; Pierre Salinger, investigator; Walter Sheridan, investigator; Carmine S. Bellino, accounting consultant; Ruth Young Watt, chief clerk. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order. (Members of the committee present at the convening of the session: Senators McClellan and Mundt.) The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Kamenow, will you come around, please? Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. KAMENOW. I do. TESTIMONY OF GEORGE KAMENOW, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, PAUL J. WIESELBERG The CHAIRMAN. State your name, your place of residence, and your business or occupation. Mr. KAMENOW. George Kamenow,-32040 Tarreyton, Farmington, Mich. The CHAIRMAN. Will you give your business or occupation, please, sir? Mr. KAMENOW. On advice of counsel, I respectfully decline at this time to answer. Under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution and article 2, section 16, of the constitution of the State of Michigan, I assert my privilege not to be a witness against myself. The CHAIRMAN. You have counsel present. Will you identify yourself for the record? Mr. WIESELBERG. Paul J. Wieselberg, W-i-e-s-e-l-b-e-r-g, of Detroit, Mich. The CHAIRMAN. Will you submit to the Chair what you read there just for a moment, please? I couldn't hear. Or will you repeat it? May I see what you have read? (The document was handed to the chairman by the witness.) The CHAIRMAN. The Chair overrules that part of the witness answer where he states that under the constitution, article 2, section. 16, of the constitution of the State of Michigan, that he asserts his privilege not to be a witness against himself. The constitution of the State of Michigan has no jurisdiction over and is not a guide or direction nor a restriction upon this committee's function or its inquiry. Therefore, that part of the statement of the witness' response will be overruled. The Chair again asks you the question, what is your present business or occupation? Mr. KAMENOW. I honestly believe that if I am forced to answer questions, I will be compelled to be a witness against myself, in violation of my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution, and under article 2, section 16, of the constitution of the State of Michigan. The CHAIRMAN. Again, the Chair overrules that statement of the Michigan constitution so far as it is superseding the authority and jurisdiction of the Federal Government. I suggest to your counsel that he advise you not to repeat it. Of course, if counsel wants to insist, he can make that kind of a record. It will not reflect upon the committee, I can assure him. If he wants to make that kind of a record, that is your privilege. But the Chair announces now that part of your answer will be overruled. As I understand you, Mr. Kamenow, your statement is that, under the fifth amendment to the Constiution, you assert that privilege and decline to be a witness against yourself; is that correct? Mr. KAMENOW. That is correct. The CHAIRMAN. Do you honestly believe that, if you gave a truthful answer to the question as to what is your present business or occupation, a truthful answer under oath might tend to incriminate you? Mr. KAMENOW. I honestly believe that, if I am forced to answer the question, I will be compelled to be a witness against myself, in violation of my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution. The CHAIRMAN. Since you don't want to be a witness against yourself, will you be a witness for the committee and the union men of this country that have been involved in your activities and, therefore, give them some accounting of your stewardship, and also to the business interests of this country? Mr. KAMENOW. On advice of counsel, I respectfully decline at this time to answer, under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution, and I assert my privilege not to be a witness against myself. The CHAIRMAN. Have you been in the hearing room here during the testimony yesterday of witnesses from Flint, Mich? Mr. KAMENOW. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Then you heard the testimony, did you, of those witnesses yesterday? Mr. KAMENOw. For a short time that I was in here. The CHAIRMAN. Did you hear something then that intimated to you that it might be well for you not to answer questions today? Mr. KAMENOW. On advice of counsel, I respectfully decline at this time to answer. Under the fifth amendment to the United States Constitution, I assert my privilege not to be a witness against myself. The CHAIRMAN. Well, I want to be very fair to you. You, perhaps, didn't hear all of the testimony yesterday, so I am going to ask counsel to proceed to interrogate you about some of the revelations that came to us in sworn testimony in our inquiry into this situation by the witnesses who appeared here yesterday. Mr. Counsel, proceed. Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, prior to that time, we have here a subpena, or a copy of the subpena, served on Mr. Kamenow which orders his production of all of his personal records and books. Will you ask the witness to produce those records? The CHAIRMAN. I present to the witness a copy of the subpena served upon him, and ask him to examine it and identify it. (The document was handed to the witness.) Mr. WIESELBERG. He was served with that subpena. The CHAIRMAN. The witness acknowledges he was served with that subpena? Mr. KAMENOW. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Let me have the subpena, please. (The document was handed to the chairman by the witness.) The CHAIRMAN. This subpena may be printed in the record at this point, the pertinent parts of it, about which I shall interrogate the witness. Mr. WIESELBERG. I would like to, Mr. Chairman, make a brief objection here. In the first place, we question the pertinency of his personal records in this investigation. In the second place, the subpena is of such a broad scope-in fact, I would say it would constitute a fishing expedition-so that, under the decision of the Bowman Dairy case (341 U. S. 214), the subpena is largely invalid, and we just want to place that objection on the record. The CHAIRMAN. That objection will be placed on the record, and it is overruled by the committee. The Chair will proceed to read the pertinent parts of the subpena. You are hereby commanded to appear before the Senate Select Committee on Improper Activities in the Labor or Management Field of the United States, on August 12, 1957, at 10 a. m., at their committee room, 101 Senate Office Building, and then and there to testify what you may know relative to the subject matter under consideration by said committee, and produce, duces tecum, all of your personal financial records and records maintained by you and your wife and by others on your behalf for the years 1952 through 1957 pertaining to and including bankbooks, bank statements, canceled checks, check stubs, savings accounts, stocks, bonds, debentures, and other securities, loans, insurance policies, real estate, automobiles and trucks, interest in partnership or joint ventures, and all other financial records, and pertaining to financial transactions that you have had during the years 1952 through 1957 with companies, corporations, labor unions, and officials of labor unions. Mr. Kamenow, have you complied with this subpena, and have you produced your records? Mr. KAMENOW. I assert I have produced my personal records in accordance with the subpena issued by this committee. The CHAIRMAN. I will have to ask you to suspend. It is going to be impossible for us to proceed here with this noise outside the hearing room. (A short recess was taken.) The CHAIRMAN. On the basis of the report we have now received, we are now hopeful that we can proceed without interruption, so we will try again. The Chair again asks you the question, if you have complied with the subpena, and do you have present your records? Mr. KAMENOW. I have with me my personal records, in accordance with the subpena issued by this committee. The CHAIRMAN. You have what? Mr. KAMENOW. I have with me my personal records, in accordance with the subpena issued by this committee. However, on advice of counsel, I respectfully decline at this time to produce and turn over my personal records under the fourth and fifth amendments of the United States Constitution, and, under article 2, sections 15 and 16 of the constitution of the State of Michigan, I assert my privilege not to produce under compulsion evidence to be used against me and of not being a witness against myself. The CHAIRMAN. All of that part of your statement with respect to the constitution of the State of Michigan is overruled. I do understand from your answer, however, that you did bring the records and you have them with you. Mr. KAMENOW. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You have them present here? Mr. KAMENOW. That is right. The CHAIRMAN. All right. You are declining to turn them over on the ground, as I understand you, that to produce them would be, in effect, testifying against yourself, and you feel that if you did that the records that you would produce and deliver to us under the order of this subpena might tend to incriminate you? Mr. KAMENOW. I stand by my statement. The CHAIRMAN. Well, I am trying to clarify your statement. If you want to leave it in that shape, you may. I am simply trying to be very fair to you. you Mr. KAMENOW. I don't quite understand your question, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. I am trying to make the record clear, and, don't want to do it, that is all right with me. I am trying to clarify your answer so that it can be understood. I understand that you have the records present, but your statement is that, if you produced the records and made them available to the committee, the information those records contain might tend to incriminate you. Mr. KAMENOW. I stand on my statement. The CHAIRMAN. Proceed, Mr. Counsel, and ask him every question that you have information about here, and let him take the fifth amendment, if that is his choice, but I want to give him an opportunity to deny and to refute or explain. Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, it might be well to start off by pointing out that Mr. Kamenow came, according to our records, with Labor Relations Associates, around 1941. The CHAIRMAN. Is that correct? Mr. KAMENOW. On advice of council, I respectfully decline at this time to answer, and under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution I assert my privilege not to be a witness against myself. The CHAIRMAN. Do you honestly believe that if you stated when you went to Labor Relations Associates that a truthful answer thereto might tend to incrmininate you? Mr. KAMENOW. I honestly believe that if I am forced to answer the question I will be compelled to be a witness against myslf, in violation of my privileges under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution. The CHAIRMAN. Proceed. Mr. KENNEDY. And that Mr. Kamenow has been in charge of the Detroit office. About 3 or 4 months ago, he broke off from Mr. Shefferman and set up an office of his own. He broke off, according to the information that we have, and according to what he told various of the clients, because he was concerned about some of the things that had been testified about Mr. Shefferman, and that he didn't know Mr. Shefferman was doing some of these improper acts, and he didn't want to be associated with him. The CHAIRMAN. One witness so testified yesterday, as the Chair recalls. He testified to that in substance. Mr. Kamenow, would you tell the committee what acts of Mr. Shefferman's displeased you or you didn't want to be associated with, that caused you to break away from that relationship? Mr. KAMENOW. On advice of counsel, I respectfully decline at this time to answer, and under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution I assert my privilege not to be a witness against myself. The CHAIRMAN. Are we to imply from that statement that you were a party to some of those actions that you got disgusted with, and that is why you quit? Mr. KAMENOW. On advice of counsel, I respectfully decline at this time to answer, and under the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution I assert my privilege not to be a witness against myself. The CHAIRMAN. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. Mr. KENNEDY. We do not have all of the figures for 1956, but I have some of the figures for 1954 and 1955, which will give a picture of the financial situation as far as Mr. Kamenow is concerned in Labor Relations Associates. In 1954, according to our records, he received a salary of $15,000, and a bonus of $18,000, and travel and entertainment expenses of $30,529.73. The CHAIRMAN. That is for the year 1954? Mr. KENNEDY. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. He received the salary from whom? Mr. KENNEDY. From Labor Relations Associates. The CHAIRMAN. And a bonus from them? Mr. KENNEDY. Yes, and this travel and entertainment expense of $30,529.73, which we expect to go into a little bit further. The CHAIRMAN. What is the total? Mr. KENNEDY. The total was $63,529.73 of money that went to Mr. Kamenow. The CHAIRMAN. Do you want to deny, refute, or admit, or explain those figures? |