The CHAIRMAN. Why would you not just give the man a receipt as he paid the money? What is wrong with it? That is, if you wanted to do it openly and if there was nothing to conceal about it? Why not just give him his receipt, as you did members of your own union? Mr. Yocoм. Well, I was just told not to.

The CHAIRMAN. By whom?

Mr. Yocoм. By the business agent.

The CHAIRMAN. Who was the business agent?

Mr. Yocoм. Earl Griffin.

The CHAIRMAN. You were carrying out his orders in that fashion? Mr. Yocoм. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How did you get this money to El Dorado from the Pine Bluff job?

Mr. Yocoм. Well, in my automobile most of the time.

The CHAIRMAN. Who would ride with you sometimes?

Mr. Yocoм. Several people.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you place this money in your automobile and take it to El Dorado?

Mr. Yocoм. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How was it carried?

Mr. Yocoм. In these sacks.

The CHAIRMAN. Paper bags?

Mr. Yocoм. Paper bags, that is right.

The CHAIRMAN. There has been testimony here that sometimes they were scattered all over the automobile, and when you got there you would just rake it up in the envelopes, put it in a box, and carry it into the office; is that correct?

Mr. Yoсoм. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That wouldn't be correct?

Mr. Yocoм. I wouldn't say that was correct, Senator. I never handled money that loosely.

The CHAIRMAN. How would you say it was handled?

Mr. Yocoм. Well, we would place the money in a bag, put it on the seat, and usually I would have one, two, maybe three people riding with me, because I never knew whether I would be knocked in the head or something like that. But actually I handled a very small amount of money that was taken in on the job.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you mean, a very small amount? The testimony is that you hauled a lot of money back to El Dorado from this job in your car every week.

Mr. Yocoм. What I mean is on the whole job, the amount of money that was taken in what I took in was a small amount of what was taken to El Dorado.

The CHAIRMAN. Were there others carrying money to El Dorado, too?

The CHAIRMAN. And you think it was a small part compared to the whole?

Mr. YoсOм. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. When you took the money to El Dorado, what kind of records were made of it?

Mr. YoCOм. That I don't know, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. You know nothing about the records that were kept on this money you turned in?

Mr. Yocoм. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You made no steward's report on the amount you collected?

Mr. Yocoм. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You kept no record of whom it was from, as a steward?

Mr. Yocoм. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. So you do not know. You just dumped whatever envelopes you had in the offices?

Mr. YoсOм. That is true.

The CHAIRMAN. And there were times, instead of taking it into the office, you took it down to Mr. Griffin's home; is that correct?

Mr. Yocoм. I would say maybe I have a time or two, when the office was closed, and he would go up and put it in the office.

Mr. GENTRY. Senator, I think you started to introduce an exhibit that he had a little earlier.

The CHAIRMAN. I beg your pardon. I overlooked that.

A little while ago, Mr. Yocom, you presented an envelope with some names on it and some figures, which appears to be a form of a receipt, I assume. Anyway, I asked you at the time to identify it and we got diverted to something else.

Will you please do that now? I present you the same envelope. Mr. Yocoм. Well, now, this fellow could have been a foreman. I don't know him. I have two of these.

This fellow was a foreman, on this envelope.

The CHAIRMAN. All right, that is an envelope, you are saying, used by a foreman?

Mr. Yoсoм. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That was one of the forms provided your foremen in connection with the collection of this money; is that correct? Mr. YoсOм. That is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Mr. Yocoм. This foreman, on these people that he didn't give receipts, would mark down the local number, the man's name, and the amount of what he paid.

The CHAIRMAN. What became of this after he marked this down? Mr. Yocoм. What became of the receipt?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. Yocoм. This foreman got the receipt.

The CHAIRMAN. The foreman kept the receipt?

Mr. YoсOм. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The man who paid the money did not get it?
Mr. Yocoм. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. This may be made exhibit No. 29 for reference.

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 29" for reference and may be found in the files of the subcommittee.)

The CHAIRMAN. The foreman, then, had a record of who paid and what was paid?

Mr. YoсOм. He had a receipt on people

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, the receipt which would ordinarily go to the people who paid it was kept by the foreman?

Mr. Yocoм. Yes, sir; it was supposed to be.

The CHAIRMAN. Supposed to be kept by the foreman?

Mr. Yocoм. Yes, sir; the foreman or one of the members of 706.
The CHAIRMAN. What did he do with it after keeping it?

Mr. YoсOм. That I don't know.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the purpose of his keeping it?

Mr. YoсOм. I don't even know that.

The CHAIRMAN. I don't either, unless he is going to keep a record and make some accounting of it.

Mr. Yocoм. I suppose.

The CHAIRMAN. Were these ever checked to find out how many he collected and whether he turned them all in or not? Did you do that as steward?

Mr. YoсOм. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Who did? Who checked the foremen to see that they turned in all they collected?

Mr. Yocoм. Well, I suppose the office had a record of it; I mean, as to know what had been collected.

The CHAIRMAN. From that they at least provided a delinquent list. How often would that delinquent list come out?

Mr. Yocoм. I don't recall. I recall getting maybe a couple or three. The CHAIRMAN. Did a Mr. Kelley work there at the office at the time you were inside guard?

Mr. Yocoм. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And at the same time you were steward?

Mr. YoсOм. That is true.

The CHAIRMAN. Did he provide these delinquent lists for you?

Mr. YoCOм. I don't think so.

The CHAIRMAN. Is he not the one that prepared the delinquent lists and gave them to you?

Mr. Yocoм. He might have kept up with the shops.

The CHAIRMAN. I am talking about this job down there.

Mr. YoCOм. I would say no. I couldn't say for sure.

The CHAIRMAN. Who did actually give you the delinquent list? Mr. Yocoм. Well, the only one that I recall is the one that I got from the office.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you go by the office to get it? You do not know who handed it to you, or who provided you with it?

Mr. Yocoм. No. I think the secretary at that time was Mrs. Martin.

The CHAIRMAN. Mrs. Martin?

Mr. YoсOм. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Was Mr. Kelley working in the office at that time? Mr. Yocoм. No, sir. That was at the job, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. I am talking about the Blaw Knox job at Pine Bluff, the Pine Bluff Arsenal job.

Mr. Yocoм. I am sorry. In speaking of Mrs. Martin, I was talking about at El Dorado in the office.

The CHAIRMAN. No, I am talking about there on the Blaw Knox job. Did Mr. Kelley work there and prepare these delinquent lists for you?

Mr. Yocoм. He has made up some cards for the shop area there. You see, there was about 100 or 125 people, probably, in the shop

area. He didn't make them up for me. He might have kept them for the superintendent. He kept blueprints and stuff like that.

The CHAIRMAN. Would you say now that this payment was made voluntarily by the men or was it made under some understanding that they had to pay?

Mr. Yoсом. Would I say?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. Yocoм. That it was voluntary or if they had to do it?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. Yocoм. Well, I am under oath. I couldn't swear. I know what was told in two open meetings to the group.

The CHAIRMAN. Those were meetings of your local?

Mr. Yocom. No, sir; this was at Pine Bluff. I forget the name of the park, but they have a huge building there.

The CHAIRMAN. You had some open meeting at Pine Bluff?

Mr. YoCOм. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And there was some statement made there about it? Mr. Yocoм. Twice. There were two meetings there.

The CHAIRMAN. What were those statements?

Mr. Yocoм. Well, the best I can recall-at the time this deal had come from the general office and some people had complained about their donations or voluntary contributions, whatever it was, and they were told in this meeting if anybody had been forced or told that they would lose their job or anything like that, that all they had to do was to tell the business agent, Mr. Griffin, and their money would be refunded. The CHAIRMAN. Who made that statement?

Mr. YoсOм. Mr. Griffin; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Before I go into another aspect of this, about how many men worked on that job at Pine Bluff, of your craft?

Mr. Yocoм. Senator, I could not give you the exact, but I would say at any one time possibly 3,000. Maybe less.

The CHAIRMAN. 3,000, possibly. Do you mean in the overall, with not necessarily that many working at one time?

Mr. Yocoм. No, no, sir. More than that overall.

The CHAIRMAN. You mean you reached as high as 3,000 in your craft?

Mr. YoсOм. Approximately, I imagine, at one time for about 2 weeks, at the peak of the job. I don't know this, but I know that it was higher-it was way up there for about 2 weeks.

The CHAIRMAN. The average would be considerably above a thousand, would it not?

Mr. Yocoм. Well, if you say average, I would say 900 or 1,000.
The CHAIRMAN. 900 or 1,000 average for the whole period?

Mr. Yocoм. Well, the last year it wouldn't run that much. What I am trying to say is I wouldn't know how to average it out.

The CHAIRMAN. You are just not able to estimate, but you think that at one time or know that at one time there was quite a lot of people working there?

Mr. YoсOм. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask you: Did any of this assessment, this $3.50 assessment that was collected by you from members of local 665 and local 155, go to their local union?

Mr. Yocoм. Senator, I would have to answer that like this: I have read telegrams and heard in the meetings, in the union meetings, but

as far as being in a meeting where any of these transactions went on I have not. But I have heard, through the office, that there was a threedeal on it.

way

The CHAIRMAN. That there was a three-way deal?

Mr. Yocoм. Yes, sir

The CHAIRMAN. We understand that. In fact, they entered into an agreement in the beginning. Did you know about that agreement? It was in writing.

Mr. YoCOм. I wasn't in it, but I understand that is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. You understand that was in writing?

Mr. YoсOм. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Did your union, so far as you know, ever disburse any of these funds to either of the other locals?

Mr. Yocoм. Well, I have heard that they did, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. You have heard that your union, your local, made some distribution of these funds to the other locals?

Mr. Yocoм. That is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. If they did, I assume there would be a record of it, would there not?

Mr. Yocoм. I assume.

The CHAIRMAN. There ought to be some record of it.

Mr. Yocoм. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You do not know whether they did or did not?
Mr. Yocoм. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You spoke a while ago about messages from the international about it being improper to collect this fund. I present to you or I call to your attention exhibit No. 8 in this proceeding, which consists of telegrams from Jerry V. Ryan, titled "General Organizer," one being to local 155. This says:

This will confirm our telephone conversation of recent date in regard to working assessments on the Pine Bluff arsenal. The members of local unions 155 and 655 employed on this project will not be required to pay worker's assessment to local union 706, El Dorado, Ark., who have job jurisdiction.

Did you know about that decision of the international?

Mr. Yocoм. Not exactly. I heard—I didn't read that telegram. The CHAIRMAN. Maybe you did not, but there is the original telegram. I was wondering if you were familiar with the ruling of the international.

Mr. GENTRY. What is the date on that?

Mr. DUFFY. February 3, I think it is, 1951. It is September 3, 1951.

The CHAIRMAN. This says September 3. It does not give the year, but it shows the time as 11:45 a.m.

Here it is stamped on the back as September 3, 1951.

That was about the time the project opened up, was it not?

Mr. Yocoм. In 1951? Senator, I believe I went there in July. I am not sure of that, but it was around July or the 1st of August. The CHAIRMAN. Well, that is shortly after the project started. Mr. Yocoм. Yes. I would say it was just getting kicked off. The CHAIRMAN. Obviously some question had arisen because this refers to a telephone conversation. There is another there to the other local which is the same. It is an identical wire to the other local. I assume some question had arisen about it at that time.