The CHAIRMAN. Are you?

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. I am talking about the individual saying, “We are making money. We feel we should pay into the local union who is incurring the expense, who is doing the supervising of the job." It is not uncommon wherever you go to find

The CHAIRMAN. It would be all right if it was a matter of bearing expenses. But here they are building up a tremendous fund at $3.50 a week into a union they do not belong to. Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. It is not unusual. The CHAIRMAN. Does that make sense? Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. It is not unusual.

The CHAIRMAN. Let's follow these funds a little further.

How much actual expense was written out of these funds for the supervising of this job by the local, by local 706 ?

Mr. MUNDIE. Some $10,000.

The CHAIRMAN. Get the exact amount and we will insert it into the record at this point.

Mr. ADLERMAN. $10,421.

Mr. MUNDIE. $10,421.22.

The CHAIRMAN. How much was deposited into this joint venture account from the time it was opened until it was closed.

Mr. MUNDIE. $103,951.78.

The CHAIRMAN. How much?

Mr. MUNDIE. $103,571,78.

The CHAIRMAN. I have it here as 531.
Mr. MUNDIE. 531. I beg your pardon.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the total amount deposited in the joint venture account?

Mr. MUNDIE. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. The total amount that was disbursed as general expenses during the life of the account was $10,421.22; is that correct? Mr. MUNDIE. That is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. What happened to the remainder of the money in that account when it was closed out? How was it closed out?

Mr. MUNDIE. $39,303 was transferred to the building fund of local 706.

The CHAIRMAN. Wait a minute. $39,303?

Mr. MUNDIE. 903.

The CHAIRMAN. Let's not have to go over this. $39,903 to the building fund.

Mr. MUNDIE. $26,603.78 went into the organizing fund; $26,603.78 went into the general fund.

The CHAIRMAN. Of local 706?

Mr. MUNDIE. Of local 106.

The CHAIRMAN. Then the $10,000-plus for expenses, plus the three distributions to the building fund, the organizing fund, and the general account accounts for the whole $103,531.78 that went into the fund, the joint-venture fund?

Mr. MUNDIE. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. The point I am making, and if you think this is unreasonable you explain what is unreasonable about it, why would men contribute to build up a tremendous fund over there in local 706 when they had their own union that you say was practically broke? Why would they do that voluntarily?

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. It is quite simple. Because a majority of the people that cleared into the local union, Senator, were charter members to 706 or had transferred from 706 into Pine Bluff or Little Rock or Fort Smith or Hot Springs, and they had realized their wages were low, their work was gone, they had no work, they couldn't get a union job to develop in the area, and in all probability they continued to feel loyal to the local.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask you

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. I am assuming a lot of things, but that is what has been told to me not by one but by dozens and dozens of people, and I pass it on.

The CHAIRMAN. What did you have in mind when this contract was drawn up? That it would be an assessment against them or a voluntary contribution?

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. Senator, when that contract was drawn up, it was drawn up in haste. As you see it, it was thrown in my lap because they openly

The CHAIRMAN. I do not see where it was thrown in your lap.

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. But you haven't seen a letter, and evidently I don't know where it is, though I may have it with me, wherein they say they couldn't do the work, they couldn't man the job, they couldn't get people to work there at their wage rates, and I don't know what all.

The CHAIRMAN. Who is that letter from you are talking about? Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. From the different business agents to our international union.

The CHAIRMAN. That might be true. I do not know about that. We do not have it here. But here is a contract entered into. What did you have in mind the moneys that were going to come into your hands that you were going to account for and divide equally, what kind of moneys were they to be, voluntary payments or assessments? Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. We had in mind, Senator McClellan, of assessing the members of the three local unions and following the practice of local 706 on migrant workers to assess the three local unions and put that money in one account and then split it at the end of the job. That was the intent and purpose of the agreement, as honorable as any man ever entered into one.

The CHAIRMAN. That was exactly what was done, except dividing the money at the end of the job, is that not correct?

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. Senator McClellan, you still don't get the point. If you will take the revenue that went into the treasury of not just Little Rock and Pine Bluff

The CHAIRMAN. That does not have anything to do with that. This agreement is talking about the money that you received in the joint

venture account.

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. But when this agreement was broken-
The CHAIRMAN. Who broke it?

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. By mutual agreement that it should not be done by the directive of the general president, certainly not on the part of local 706 or any of its officers or members.

The CHAIRMAN. Where is anything other than this telegram telling you you have no right to do it?

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. Senator, the constitution

The CHAIRMAN. You talk about it being broken. Where is anything that broke it other than the telegram?

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. The constitution of the United Association, Senator, has not been changed, to my knowledge-it might have in a word or two-section 2. That about governs everything that we as local unions do.

The CHAIRMAN. I have not time to read it, but did it prohibit your making such an agreement as this?

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. It gives the general president authority to assign jurisdiction for the current working day and no agreement or jurisdiction is for longer than the current working day. When that agreement was broken by the general president, every local union read it, knew it, approved it, accepted it.

The CHAIRMAN. How was this broken by the general president? He is not a party to it.

Senator ERVIN. Can I ask a question?

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. Senator, here is how it is broken by the general president. He dictates the interpretation of jurisdictional awards, and the contracts that shall prevail upon the job. The international union had been a party to persuading us to take this project and supervise it. They would not become a party of something that was not habitual or customary practice.

The CHAIRMAN. This section, as I glance at it, refers only to jurisdiction. I do not see anything in there having to do with this assessment. The jurisdiction was conceded in this other document by the other two unions to your union. The jurisdiction was not in dispute in this agreement.

I would like to have printed in the record at this point, so there will be no question about what the witness relies on, section 2 of the constitution, which he presents here, dated August 13-17, 1956, as amended, at that time. Let that be printed. I do not think it refers to the question at issue here.

(The section referred to is as follows:)

SEC. 2. The jurisdiction of territory of the United Association embraces the United States and Canada, and its trade jurisdiction shall include all branches of the pipe fitting industry. In it alone is vested the power to establish Local Unions, and its mandates must be observed at all times and under all circumstances. To the United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices of the Plumbing and Pipe Fitting Industry of the United States and Canada is reserved the right to decide all matters pertaining to trade and territorial jurisdiction of its affiliated Local Unions, and no Local Union is conceded territorial jurisdiction other than the current working day in said territory, while to Local Unions is conceded the right to make necessary laws and agreements for local government which do not conflict with the laws of the United Association.

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. The thing that does refer to the issue, though, is that it was understood by all parties concerned that this agreement was being consummated with approval of General President Martin P. Durkin. It was also understood by the general organizer of the district that we could do that. I don't have the letter, though maybe you gentlemen do, where each local union wrote President Durkin their position in doing this job.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Ervin.

Senator ERVIN. As a matter of fact, the question arose before you started this project as to which union, which local, was going to have jurisdiction.

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. The question did arise, not by me, but by the other two locals.

Senator ERVIN. When was this agreement made with reference to that time? Was that made before or after Mr. Durkin made his ruling on jurisdiction?

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. This agreement was made, to my knowledge, Senator Ervin, and I don't have the records-I am positive this agreement was made before President Durkin ruled. I will have to stand on the record, if it corrects me.

Senator ERVIN. Before Mr. Durkin ruled about who had jurisdiction or on the other matter? In other words, on this question of jurisdiction, Mr. Durkin ruled that

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. That we could not split our moneys on the job. Senator ERVIN. He ruled, before he found out anything about that, that you would have jurisdiction?

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. No, sir. All of this was made available to the general president for his scrutiny before any decisions were made, Senator.

Senator ERVIN. When was that made available to him?

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. I would have to trace it down, Senator. Ten years ago I couldn't remember.

Senator ERVIN. You unfortunately do not put any date on it. Can you tell what month?

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. I am sure the other business agents would agree it was made prior to the ruling from Washington on jurisdiction. I feel most confident they would. Here is the reason it would have to be, Senator, because he refers to it in his award.

Senator ERVIN. On February 21, 1951, you received a telegram from Martin P. Durkin, sent from Washington, D.C., to you at 940 North Jefferson Street, El Dorado, Ark.:

I wish to inform you that I have granted local union 706 jurisdiction over the Pine Bluff, Ark., Arsenal, located 15 miles north of Pine Bluff, Ark., as recommended by Gen. Gerald Ryan and as agreed to by Wade Chambless of local union 665 and Dave Dove of local 155—

with the signature of Martin P. Durkin.

What time was that undated agreement made with reference to the time of this telegram?

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. I am quite sure this was made prior to that, Senator, but to be positive I cannot be. I would be willing to testify in my opinion it was.

Senator ERVIN. When did the work actually start?

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. At Pine Bluff?

Senator ERVIN. Yes.

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. You asked that awhile ago, Senator, and if I knew I would have answered, honestly. I know we have the date because the Army was hit like that, and we had to pull men and handpick them. They didn't have time to clear timber or dig a ditch or anything to put a temporary waterline in there. They gave us 4 days to put it in and we did it in 2 or 3 or something.

Senator ERVIN. Give us your best recollection of when the work started with reference to the time of this telegram of February 21, 1951.

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. It would be a total guess.

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Senator ERVIN. Can you guess within 6 months of it?

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. If you will ask your question again, I will make an effort.

Senator ERVIN. This telegram sent by Durkin to you was sent on February 21, 1951. When did the work start with reference to the time you were informed by this telegram that local 706 had jurisdiction on the job?

Mr. MUNDIE. The records of the Army audit show that the first man was on the job on March 10, 1951. Then it got up to April and they had three men. Between April and June 9 they didn't have any men, and on June 9 they had eight. On June 16 they had 27. On June 23 they had 27.

The CHAIRMAN. That is all in 1951 ?

Mr. MUNDIE. Yes, sir. Then, according to that account, that was opened on August 6 and the first deposit made on August 7, 1951. The CHAIRMAN. What is the amount of the first deposit?

Mr. MUNDIE. $761.50.

The CHAIRMAN. You are taking these answers, you are getting your information for these answers, from documents that are already a part of this record, are you?

Mr. MUNDIE. That is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. They have been made exhibits?

Mr. MUNDIE. Exhibit 12.

Senator ERVIN. After this work started, this agreement contemplated that members of the three locals would pay $3.50 a week, and that those payments would go into the joint venture?

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. After the work started you think this agreement was reached?

Senator ERVIN. You told me you reached that before the telegram. Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. This agreement was reached before there were any men on the job.

Senator ERVIN. What I am getting at is when the work started, while it doesn't specify any sum in there, wasn't it agreed orally between the three locals that each member of each of the locals would pay $3.50 into this joint venture?

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. Senator Ervin, I think possibly you are misled there. We would charge the assessment that was prevailing in each local union to that local union's members. If there was $1 a week, then Little Rock men would pay $1.

Senator ERVIN. You say there was not $3.50 paid by the various locals into that fund?

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. We have a record of exactly what was paid by each member, Senator Ervin.

Senator ERVIN. Anyway, your people paid $3.50; did they not?
Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

Senator ERVIN. Then what was paid in by the others, the assessments paid in by the other union members, up until you got this telegram from Mr. Durkin in September

Mr. EARL GRIFFIN. Senator Ervin, as soon as we got any moneys, the girl went up and signed the card at the bank and the girl was instructed to open the safe and deposit the moneys in the new account. Instead of stopping it then, there would have been no confusion if I had, pressing business kept me in the field night and day during this