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Mr. Timmins would recommend would have great merit. He is one of the outstanding industrialists of Canada, and his is one of the finest financial institutions of all Canada.

Mr. D'EWART. I understand that the Timmins Co. is a world-wide mining corporation with lots of resources and well able to handle the job. In fact, all of these companies we spoke of, Mr. Eichelberger's company, the Vanadium Corp. of America, and the Timmins Corp., are all expert mining companies that have had much experience and have large staffs and are well able to take care of this kind of development.

Mr. HOLDERER. They are dependable and responsible in every way.

DEVELOPMENT OF BENBOW MINE ON STILLWATER DEPOSITS NOT
CONTEMPLATED BY GOVERNMENT

Mr. D'EWART. That is what I understand.

Is there anything in prospect at this time regarding the development of the Benbow property?

Mr. HOLDERER. No, sir.

Mr. D'EWART. There has been no application at all?

Mr. HOLDERER. No, sir; there has been no application on that.

Mr. D'EWART. You are dealing up to date, then, with the Mouat? Mr. HOLDERER. With the Mouat; yes, sir.

DMA OFFICIAL BELIEVES PRODUCTION OF LOW-GRADE CHROMITE CONCENTRATES FROM MOUAT PROPERTY ADVISABLE REGARDLESS OF FURTHER PROCESSING

Mr. ENGLE. Do you expect to get a program to bring these chrome ores up to metallurgical grade before you proceed, or are you thinking in terms of proceeding with this program of accomplishing the first step which will result in 42 percent chrome concentrate?

Mr. HOLDERER. It would be at least that high when we get the mine. and mill into operation and perhaps more. We are so confident that the final step can be done effectively that the thing to do is to get that mine and mill rolling and complete whatever other work is necessary concurrently.

Mr. ENGLE. Is it your view that if it does not develop to be feasible to concentrate these ores above 42 percent that the acquisition of large tonnages of 42-percent ore would be in the national interest?

Mr. HOLDERER. I believe that it would, sir.

Industry has the habit of demanding the very highest grade. If they cannot get it they will be satisfied with a lesser grade. As you may know from personal experience, if you cannot get 96 proof whisky 80 percent proof is drinkable.

Mr. ENGLE. Chrome is a good deal like whisky, some is better than others.

Mr. HOLDERER. That is right.

Mr. D'EWART. There is no question about the ability to produce electrolytical chrome in any percentage you care to provide the power

for.

Mr. HOLDERER. That is correct.

Mr. D'EWART. And we do have the possibility of developing any amount of power that you might need for that process in that area.

Mr. HOLDERER. Because of the fact that Mr. Timmins says he can do it I am perfectly willing to accept his statement. I have not gone into all of the details with Mr. Timmins on costs or anything of that kind. I have talked with Mr. Timmins and his engineers, but have had no occasion to examine the details of his figures. If he says he can do it, he is the type of man that you believe without any further questioning.

Mr. ENGLE. But he is not going to bet any money on it, is he?

Mr. HOLDERER. I think he is, and I think he is willing to put up some of his own money. He will ask for an RFC loan, of course, because it is a job which will run into many millions of dollars, but right now he is using his own money on the preliminary work, in designing, on surveys, and engineering work which is costly.

Mr. ENGLE. It is one thing to say you can do it when you are going to do it with somebody else's money, especially Uncle Sam's money, but it is another thing to do it when you are going to do it with your own money. We had some grievous experience with chrome in the last war. We had one project out in Oregon that cost the taxpayers a cool $10,000,000.

Whatever came of the chrome-ore production from the Montana deposits in the last war?

Mr. HOLDERER. The concentrates that were produced in the mill are still there, something like, I think 30,000 to 35,000 tons. Likewise, I am told, there is still a pile of some 100,000 tons of high-grade Russian concentrates that are in store, that are still here.

Mr. ENGLE. You mean stockpiled at the mill?

Mr. HOLDERER. Yes.

Mr. ENGLE. What is the reason for the concentration of ore there? Mr. HOLDERER. I do not know where the Russian concentrates are, whether they are piled up at this same mill, but I understand that they are in the stockpile; where that stockpile is located. I do not know, but there is some 100,000 tons of high-grade stuff that can be used.

Mr. D'EWART. I visited the mill, and have seen piles of the concentrate, which the general agency, the General Service Agency had disposed of as surplus property. That pile is laying there and has been scattered some by the elements, but I do not believe there is any Russian concentrate there.

Mr. HOLDERER. Not at the mill, no; I do not know where the Russian stockpile is, but it is still in stockpile. We have had the same grievous experience with tungsten and manganese ore. We have some 65,000 tons of manganese ore, which perhaps is not the best ore, but we are trying very hard not to make the same mistake of accumulating stuff for which there is little or no use afterward.

Mr. ENGLE. My contact with the General Services Administration has indicated that they are not interested in buying anything that does not come up to top specifications.

Mr. HOLDERER. This stuff was all accumulated during the war by Metals Reserve.

Mr. ENGLE. I understand, but I am talking about the current practice.

Mr. HOLDERER. As far as I know, General Services Administration is not encouraging the purchase of anything they cannot sell. A great

deal of pressure has been put on the Defense Minerals Administration to approve purchases of very low-grade stuff, for which there is no conceivable use, and I am glad to note that the Defense Minerals Administration and the General Services Administration have resisted the pressure.

Mr. ENGLE. I hope they continue to resist it. I see no reason in the world for putting stuff into stockpiles that cannot be used, and that is why I was asking about this 42-percent ore.

Mr. HOLDERER. They will not usually buy low-grade ore, and we have had to assure these people that they can use Mouat concentrates. Timmins says he can take 7,000 tons a month, and probably more if he expands his operation; that is only under his present operation, and that is of the concentrates from this Stillwater deposit, which can be used.

Mr. THAYER. During the last war the United States Vanadium Co., from its own mines, shipped about 40,000 tons from Red Lodge, Mont., which averaged about 40 percent Cr2O, with a chromium-iron ratio of about 1.5 to 1. That would be similar to the Stillwater.

RED LODGE AND GISH PROPERTIES NOT PLANNED FOR DEVELOPMENT BY THE GOVERNMENT

Mr. D'EWART. Red Lodge is at one end of this deposit which is about 27 miles in length.

Mr. THAYER. The Red Lodge deposits are on the fronts of the Absaroka Mountains, but the deposits are separate geologically from the Stillwater deposits.

Mr. D'EWART. Yes. But the same vein runs to the Benbow claims. Mr. THAYER. Yes.

Mr. D'EWART. Are you doing anything with the Red Lodge deposit at this time?

Mr. THAYER. No; we are not. The good deposits were pretty well mined out and prospecting for more deposits would be under very difficult conditions.

Mr. D'EWART. Are you doing anything with the other end of the deposit with the Gish deposits at Independent?

Mr. THAYER. At the east or west end?

Mr. D'EWART. The west.

Mr. THAYER. The west end?

Mr. D'EWART. Yes.

Mr. THAYER. No; we are not. The chromite layer at the west end was growing thin, composed of low-grade ore, and rather badly broken up so that it would be expensive to operate.

Mr. D'EWART. I understood the claims had changed hands recently, and the new owners were supposed to develop the property.

Mr. THAYER. Yes.

PRESENT CHROME PROGRAM WOULD STILL LEAVE THE UNITED STATES DEPENDENT UPON OVERSEA SOURCES OF SUPPLY FOR 90 PERCENT OF REQUIREMENTS

Mr. ENGLE. If this program is put into operation, to what extent would it make this country free from the necessity of importation? Mr. THAYER. On a thousand-ton-a-day basis, the Mouat mill would produce about 125,000 tons of concentrate a year. Our imports are

running about 1.25 million tons a year, so that on a strict tonnage basis, without regard to grade, it would be about 10 percent of our present imports, which are somewhat above the rate of consumption. Mr. ENGLE. You would say about 125,000 tons?

Mr. THAYER. Tons of concentrates a year, and our present imports are running about 1,250,000 tons a year.

FULL DEVELOPMENT AND UTILIZATION OF CHROMITE DEPOSITS IN THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA COULD MAKE UNITED STATES WHOLLY INDEPENDENT OF OVERSEAS SOURCES OF SUPPLY

Mr. ENGLE. So this thing boils itself down to about this, does it not. as to how much the Government is willing to spend to make itself independent and save itself from the necessity of depending upon foreign imports. Is that what it amounts to? If we want to spend enough money, we can?

Mr. HOLDERER. If we care to spend enough money, yes; considering the Oregon deposits and the deposits in Canada, to be wholly independent would require every ton of chrome ore we can scrape together, which would be a very expensive proposition.

Mr. D'EWART. But in the case of the Mouat, the present price of concentrate is very low, because we have the chromium ores being imported?

Mr. HOLDERER. That is correct. The Mouat mine operation could be greatly expanded. The deposit is so vast that if we cared to spend the money they could more than double; you could have from 5,000 to 10,000 tons a day.

PRICE OF IMPORTED CHROMITE

Mr. ENGLE. What is the cost of imports at this time?

Mr. THAYER. The standard ores are running in the order of $40 to $42 a ton.

I would like to point out in connection with this cost, that the price is on the eastern seaboard and applies to directly usable high-grade ore near the consuming center. The $40 for Montana concentrate would be on off-grade material, a long way from the place where it is going to be consumed. The over-all cost would be substantially higher from Montana.

Mr. ENGLE. What you are saying is that the $40 is for the metallurgical grade?

Mr. THAYER. Metallurgical grade at Baltimore.

Mr. ENGLE. And that is 48 percent?

Mr. THAYER. With, I think, about 3.2 to 1 chomium-iron ratio.

Mr. ENGLE. That is what percentage of chrome?

Mr. THAYER. Forty-eight.

Mr. ENGLE. Of course that is very high grade.

Mr. THAYER. Yes.

Mr. ENGLE. In any event, your conclusion is that even with the Mouat properly in operation at the currently planned rate we still would depend on foreign imports for 90 percent of our chromite requirements?

Mr. HOLDERER. That is right.

PRICE OF $115 A TON PAID FOR HIGH-GRADE CHROMITE AT GOVERNMENT'S GRANTS PASS PURCHASE DEPOT CONSIDERED THE MAXIMUM LIMIT

Mr. ENGLE. Is there any disposition in Defense Minerals Administration to set a ceiling above which the Government will not go in paying for chromium ores? Is the price being paid for chromite at Grants Pass considered the ceiling?

Mr. HOLDERER. Yes, at the present time.

Mr. ENGLE. As a matter of policy, the price at Grants Pass is considered the ceiling?

Mr. HOLDERER. Yes.

Mr. ENGLE. In other words, the maximum which the Government. is willing to pay now, as a matter of policy, is $115 for 48 percent chrome, with a 3 to 1 chromium-iron ratio; is that correct?

Mr. HOLDERER. Yes; 3 to 1 chromium-iron ratio.

Mr. ENGLE. I assume, Mr. Holderer, that you are not in position to comment on policy, but if you could get 48 percent, 3 to 1, produced for somewhere around $130, do you think it would be in our national interest?

Mr. HOLDERER. I do not-at the present time I would say "No."
Mr. ENGLE. It depends upon war needs?

Mr. HOLDERER. That is right.

Mr. ENGLE. And assumptions we could make?

Mr. HOLDERER. Yes.

Mr. ENGLE. Are you in position to state percentagewise what amount of chromium is in the stockpile?

Mr. HOLDERER. I have no information; no.

Mr. ENGLE. Are you in position to say whether or not the current supplies are sufficient for the emergency situation?

Mr. HOLDERER. I have no information on the quantity in stockpile. Mr. ENGLE. Well, that is the answer; what we have is the answer as to whether or not we would wind up with enough chromite. Mr. HOLDERER. We are currently importing in excess of our current demands; as to the quantity, and as to how much we have in stockpile, and what it would take to carry us through the emergency, I do not know; I have no information on that.

CONVERTING LOW-GRADE MONTANA CHROMITE CONCENTRATES TO FERROALLOYS OR ELECTROLYTIC CHROMIUM AT SOURCE WOULD REDUCE TRANSPORTATION COSTS AND MAKE MORE NEARLY COMPETITIVE WITH FOREIGN

ORES

Mr. D'EWART. I would like to comment a little further on the price ratio in relation to the point of consumption. If the chromite-consuming plant is placed closer to the ore deposits in Montana, which would produce high chromium content products close to the source of chromite, transportation cost would be reduced, and would result in being able to bring the products to Baltimore or other points at a lower price.

Mr. HOLDERER. That is correct.

Mr. D'EWART. And it would be in better position to compete with imported ores?

Mr. HOLDERER. Yes.

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