tion on it is that material cannot be secured on terms more favorable to the Government?

Dr. BOYD. That is correct.

Mr. ENGLE. That is all, so it is perfectly apparent that Congress intended subsidy-type contracts?

Dr. BOYD. There is no question about that.

Mr. ENGLE. They can't make out without them; can they?

Dr. BOYD. We are negotiating them now.

Mr. ENGLE. I know you are negotiating them, but there hasn't been any policy determination that permits you to execute them?

Dr. BOYD. There has been no policy determination that we should not do it, either.

Mr. ENGLE. I grant you that, but in the light of what Mr. Searls said yesterday, who was chief adviser on mines to Mr. Wilson, I would assume that it would be very strong advice up there against it.

Dr. BOYD. We have received no such advice, and there has been no policy determination come down which is contrary to your position. I don't think there could be. That is a congressional decision.

Mr. ENGLE. I know, but what they say is, and what Mr. Searls said before the Senate committee was, that it was not mandatory. Dr. BOYD. That is true.

Mr. ENGLE. If it was mandatory you wouldn't have to ask for his advice, and his advice wouldn't be dangerous because it would be disregarded.

INVESTIGATION OF APPLICATIONS SUBMITTED BY SMALL MINE OPERATORS

Mrs. BOSONE. Dr. Boyd, what is the procedure that you use in determining whether or not a small mine operator can have his application investigated by your department?

any

Suppose I am a small operator out in the hills of Utah. Is there size of the vein or any length of the vein or the pocket of ore, or does it have to be on the surface, or do I have to go in so far into ground, and does it have to be on ground that is already explored? I mean, you have found that there have been other mining operations there, or it may be an old mine that has been worked, and two or three fortunes at different times been found, and now we think we may have another one; we may run up another slope and find another pocket of ore. What is the procedure? I am putting myself in the position of a small mining operator. I am not a big operator at all, and yet I have been prospecting for 20 years, and have been operating small mines throughout the West.

Dr. BOYD. We would first develop, if he did not have an ore body which he could show and demonstrate was there, that he was eligible then for an exploration contract. In his application he should put in there a statement as to why he wants to do this particular thing. This mine produced lead through past years, and now we see a possibility of that vein going further, and the conditions are such that they might produce another ore body. We would like $50,000 to drive a tunnel in and see if that isn't correct.

In other words, his lay-out-we would have to see his lay-out and know how far to drive so we would know what type of contract to give him. In most of these cases we would have that information. Mrs. BOSONE. That is in the old district.

Dr. BOYD. Or in the new district. They would carry tungsten, lead, or zinc, and there are chances that those things should have more depth; they should go down and sink on them or drill. We would like to drill some holes and see if this vein that we would see on the surface does not produce ore in depth. He would say, "Here is the vein and someone to drill holes would cost so much, and I would like to sign a contract." In some cases where we don't know the information advanced we would have to go and check it.

Mrs. BOSONE. And the small operator has the same advantage as the big operator?

Dr. BOYD. Yes; very definitely.

Mrs. BOSONE. In the exploration?

Dr. BOYD. In fact, I think this is designed for the small oper

ator.

Mrs. BOSONE. I thought it was. I just wanted to make sure it was operating for him.

Thank you, Doctor.

COMMITTEE VISIT TO NORTH CAROLINA MINES PROPOSED

Mr. REDDEN. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I have been talking to several members of the committee here for some time about visiting my district, and particularly that section around Asheville, N. C. Some of them have expressed a desire to see what we have there, and what action should be taken to explore the new minerals that might be developed in that section.

Recently, I have talked to Mr. Tom Miller with the Bureau of Mines, and some gentleman with the Defense Production Department about it. I have talked also with the members of the North Carolina Department of Conservation and Development. I have been assured by them that they would be glad to have a meeting. In fact, the North Carolina Department of Conservation and Development has extended us an invitation to come there, so I have been talking to them about a date, and April 16, Monday week, has been suggested by a good many of them, and it is a good date for the committee to come. We could leave here by plane about 7 a. m. and arrive in Asheville in 3 hours, or leave by train at 7:35 and arrive at Asheville the next morning at about 8.

I understood that Dr. Boyd couldn't be with us, even though I haven't said anything to him about it, but some of his representatives down there have said he has another appointment for that day, but that they could make arrangements for others to go.

I want to extend the committee an invitation, Mr. Chairman, to go there and visit that section and hear some of the testimony and visit some of the mines down there. I believe I represent what might be called the forgotten State, so far as mining is concerned, notwithstanding the fact that North Carolina produces 26 percent of the tungsten in the United States, it produces a very substantial proportion of the feldspar in the United States, and many other things. Some have said that there is fissionable material down there and I want yol to look into that and maybe have a little look into the wisdom of having exploratory work done in that section.

I think it is a very important meeting that this committee should attend, and I just wondered what the committee thinks about it.

Mr. D'EWART. Mr. Chairman, I have visited there and know what an interesting and beautiful area it is, and I think the committee would look with favor on such a trip.

Mr. REGAN. Suppose those members of the committee notify Mr. Redden in the next few days, or as early as possible, of those who can make the trip next week end.

Mr. REDDEN. Do I understand the committee accepts the invitation, and that those who can go will go?

Mr. REGAN. Those in favor of accepting the invitation, say "aye." The invitation is accepted. You can find out from the members. We are getting a school bell call.

Dr. Boyd, you have given us very interesting testimony, you have answered the questions nicely, and we would like to ask some of the members to ask you a few more questions tomorrow. We would like to hold a session this afternoon but we have an armed services bill and the Speaker served notice the other day that he didn't want a committee sitting during a debate on as important a bill as that. We think this committee's bill might be as important as the armed services bill because without getting some minerals developed in this country we won't need any armed services bill.

While we would like to meet this afternoon, the rules of the House will prevent it; so if tomorrow morning you could arrange to be back with us for a brief spell for a few more questions, why, the committee would appreciate it.

Dr. BOYD. I will be here, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. REGAN. Thank you all very much for coming. We are a little bit off schedule, but we will try to pick up.

(Whereupon, at 12:05 p. m., the committee was adjourned.)

THE DEFENSE MINERALS PRODUCTION PROGRAM

THURSDAY, APRIL 5, 1951

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

COMMITTEE ON INTERIOR AND INSULAR AFFAIRS,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON MINES AND MINING,

Washington, D. C.

The subcommittee met in room 1324, New House Office Building, at 10 a. m., Hon. Ken Regan, chairman of the subcommittee, presiding. Mr. REGAN. The Subcommittee on Mines and Mining of the Interior and Insular Committee will now convene.

Yesterday, when we adjourned, Dr. Boyd, of the Defense Minerals Administration was on the stand.

Mr. Martin of Iowa, who is not a member of the committee, but a Member of Congress, has some questions he would like to ask.

We also have Mr. Bennett of Michigan, sitting with us, a nonmember of the committee. We didn't quite get to you, Mr. Martin, yesterday morning.

If you will take the stand, Dr. Boyd, please.

STATEMENT OF DR. JAMES BOYD, ADMINISTRATOR, DEFENSE MINERALS ADMINISTRATION

Mr. REGAN. Dr. Boyd, Mr. Martin had a question he wanted to ask you yesterday when we adjourned.

PRESENT PRICE POLICY UNDER BUY-AMERICAN CLAUSE OF STOCKPILING ACT DISCUSSED

Mr. MARTIN (Iowa). I will ask about the Buy-American clause in the Stockpile Act, passed in the Seventy-ninth Congress.

Mr. Steelman wrote a letter dated last August 10, outlining the policy on Buy American going beyond the 25-percent differential and I had on hand a news release I believe dated August 28, 1950, announcing that policy. It came out in the newspapers of the country. Is that policy still the effective policy?

Dr. BOYD. Yes, sir. The operations under the Stockpiling Act, of course, have been carried on by GSA, directly under the supervision of the Munitions Board and we did not enter into those arrangements at all except in an advisory capacity on individual projects.

After the passage of the Defense Production Act, we have been negotiating contracts that involve expansion of supplies under both the acts, under Public Law 520 and Public Law 774, in order that we may have flexibility in placing the flow of materials, whether they should go into immediate consumption or into the stockpile, and.