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notice of the House, I think it is only right that I should say a word or two before this debate closes. I do not wish to urge anything at this moment against the hon. Members who represent the borough of Belfast. They seem to be in a state of transition at the present moment; they appear to be wavering between aristocratic and democratic

they may arrive at will be one which will forward the interests of the town they represent. This question of extending the franchise in the Municipality of Belfast is a very important one, in this sense, that over and over again measures have been brought forward in this House and passed, which, after having received the approval of the House of Commons, was rejected by the House of Lords. If we cannot begin above, we must begin below, and in this case it is necessary to begin with the municipalities. If, on the other hand, we decided upon taking action in the way recommended by the Chairman of Ways and Means, it would be at once our duty to bring forward a measure for the aboli

cause of, or reflected credit upon, the Orange Democracy of Belfast. My hon. Friend (Mr. Sexton) has stated that there is no Party motive connected with his Motion to-night; and I can only say that, notwithstanding any Nationalist complexion that may be put upon it, he has the entire approval of the whole Liberal Party of Belfast-a very powerful and large body in the North of Ire-ideas, and I hope that whatever decision land. The question of the assimilation of these two franchises is one that can be raised, moreover, more appropriately in regard to Belfast, speaking from a Belfast and North of Ireland point of view, than in any other constituency in Ireland; because how often are we not told that Belfast, in every way-in sentiment, in the industrial habits of the people, and in every other way-is almost unrecognizable from an English or a Scotch town? If that was so, and if the extension of the municipal franchise was good in towns in England and Scotland, what possible objection could there be to its extension in this almost English or Scotch Municipality? Is it likely that the Town Council of Belfast is going to spend the public money in reforming it-tion of the House of Lords. I must exself? I do not believe that it is possessed of so self-debasing a tendency as to be guilty of that. We should be glad to hear from the hon. Member for East Belfast (Mr. De Cobain)-and I am sorry that the hon. Member, who is an ex-official of the Belfast Corporation, is not now in his place-some facts in connection with the transactions of the Town Council, which I think would very much enlighten hon. Members. I believe that a strong public feeling is growing in Belfast on this subject; and it may be some consolation to the hon. Members for Belfast who have not yet spoken, to learn that I hold in my hands a telegram which states that yesterday seven members of the Town Council voted for an assimilation of the franchise-a thing which no member of the Town Council had ever been known to do before. It would therefore seem that public opinion has not been without effect, even upon the Belfast Town Council; and I would advise the hon. Member for East Belfast to take advantage of this circumstance to stand up here and make a full confession, as the apostle of Tery De

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press my surprise that the Radical Party in this House do not enter more energetically into this important question. We certainly cannot expect the House of Lords to bring forward a measure for their own extinction; but I have never heard any strong expression of opinion upon it here. Hon. Members seem to have been perfectly content to sit quietly by and to endorse the opinion of the landowners generally. More especially has this been the case in connection with the action of the Town Council of Belfast. A large amount of money has been expended in Cork, as well as in Belfast, in undertakings which have not had the sanction of the ratepayers generally; and as we are on the eve of a legislative reform of local government, which is to be extended to Ireland, I think it might save us a considerable amount of expense in connection with the promotion of Bills of this character if steps were taken to hold over the action of the Town Council of Belfast until such time as we have a National Parliament in Ireland. In the meantime, they will be able to approach the Irish Party with some proposals of a conciliatory nature; and in such a case I am inclined to believe that an Irish Parliament would accede to their wishes, after

taking care to impose proper checks course which he intends to take with reupon their action. As I have already gard to it. I am also desirous of assaid, there is a large question of principle involved in this question. And the most important principle of all is the principle of right; and when the principle of right comes to be argued on higher grounds than the interests of Belfast, it is questionable whether the action of former Parliaments, in which the people were not fairly represented, will be taken into consideration. I take it that the principle of right is founded on the right of every man who is taxed to be represented, and it is quite clear that any action taken prior to the present time by the Municipality of Belfast, or any other Public Body, was not founded on the great and broad right of representation-the right of every man who is taxed to be represented. I think that every act which may have been done outside the representative principle is open to be questioned by a Native Parliament; and I think, further, that this important question ought to be raised in the case of every act which involves the outlay or the distribution of money. I would therefore ask the House to suspend its judgment in this matter, and not allow this large amount of money to be granted to a body of men who are not fairly representative of the interests of the Municipality. If they were fairly representative, they might say that they spoke in the name of all of the inhabitants of Belfast, rich and poor; and I need not tell the House that in any matter connected with the Municipality the poor are in a higher degree interested than the rich. If the Municipality of Belfast were founded on a broad representative principle-if they were elected by the entire body of taxpayers, and were entitled, therefore, to come forward on that ground and speak in the name of the people, I should not object to this Bill; but when we take into consideration the present narrow representation, I think we should hesitate before we granted such a large amount of money. With these remarks, I beg to support the proposal of my hon. Friend the Member for Sligo (Mr. Sexton).

MR. DEASY: I am very sorry that the hon. Member for East Belfast (Mr. De Cobain) is not in his place, in order to favour the House with his opinion as to the action of the Corporation of Belfast in reference to this Bill, and the

Mr. Harris

certaining what course the Government propose to adopt with regard to the suggestion of my hon. Friend and Leader the senior Member for the City of Cork (Mr. Parnell). My hon. Friend has asked the House to consent to accept two of the four paragraphs of the Motion which stands in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Sligo (Mr. Sexton); but, so far, we have not received the slightest indication of the intentions of Her Majesty's Government upon the matter. It appears to me that nearly sufficient has been said from these Benches to give the House to understand how we regard this matter. As far as the debate has gone the Irish Members have entered a strong protest against the course which has been taken upon this question; it is the intention of my hon. Friends unduly to prolong the debate, but to proceed at once to take a division, if a division is forced upon us by the Government, as a final protest. The Chairman of Ways and Means stated, in reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Sligo, that we had received sufficient Notice of the second reading of the Bill. Now, I deny that altogether, because previous to the adjournment of the House, occasioned by the late change of Government, the first reading of the Bill was taken, and on the first day of the meeting of the House after the present Government had been constituted the Bill was read a second time at a time when there was not a single Member of the House who knew what was being done. Under these circumstances, I think the statement of my hon. Friend the Member for Sligo did not exceed the exact truth when he said that this measure had been pressed forward without that due Notice which every Member of the House was entitled to receive. I should be sorry that a division should be taken at this moment upon this particular question. I should prefer to have the subject dealt with in a more comprehensive manner. I find, from a Return presented to the House a few days ago in reference to the valuation and population of the several wards in the City of Belfast, that certain facts have been brought to light which are of an alarming nature, and which require careful consideration in order that redress may be given without further delay. This Return was

moved for on the 24th of July last, and any disagreement from the views of my it was laid upon the Table last Friday. hon. Friend the Member for Sligo (Mr. It shows that the valuation of the City Sexton). I am, therefore, fairly enof Belfast is £600,000 and its popula- titled to say that they are on our side, tion 208,000; but the number of muni- although, for some reason or other, cipal electors are only 6,000. It has they refrain from expressing an opinion. been shown that the number of Par- They may tell us what they please liamentary electors are 32,000; but, about the Corporation being reprenevertheless, there is only a con. sentative of the citizens of Belfast; stituency of 6,000 which returns mem- but we know from previous experience bers to the Town Council. While that all Corporations and Public Bodies 32,000 have the right of sending Mem- elected on a narrow footing are corrupt, bers to the Imperial Parliament, 6,000 and that the members of such Bodies are considered sufficient to return mem- have the greatest possible objection to bers to the Town Council. In point of any interference on the part of Parliafact, only one in 40 in a great Irish ment with their constitution. Hitherto town enjoys the municipal franchise, the members of this particular Corporawhereas in the large towns of England tion have been engaged in plundering one in eight enjoy the right of voting the ratepayers. One official of the Town in the municipal elections. Now, I Council of Belfast receives a salary of think that that is a glaring injustice as £2,000 a-year; and while the unfortubetween England and Ireland; and there nate ratepayers strongly object to the is even a greater contrast when we come payment of so extravagant a sum, they to consider the different valuations and are compelled to pay it, and are exthe disproportion between the wards. cluded from having any voice in the In one there is a population of 158,000, control of their own affairs. I am glad while in another-the Smithfield Ward to find that the people of Belfast are at -the population is 88,000, or about last aroused to a sense of duty, and that one-half. But the number of electors they protest against being any longer in the one case is 1,817, while in the guided by this autocratic body. We other it is only 630. I think the elec- have been told within the past week, tors in the Smithfield Ward have a just and it has been repeated to-night by the ground of complaint; and I hope, that hon. Member for West Belfast (Mr. in the face of such injustice, we shall not Haslett), that before any step is taken be told that we must wait until other by Parliament the question of municipal questions of greater importance have reform ought to be considered and debeen settled. If the Government do not cided at the municipal elections. intend to bring on these questions of should like to know how, in the City of greater importance in the next month Belfast, it is to be raised? There are or six weeks, there is no reason why a only two ways in which it can be done Bill dealing with the municipal fran--the one in public meeting assembled, chise in Belfast might not be introduced and passed without delay. I believe that a Royal Commission some years ago unanimously recommended that the boundaries of the municipal borough should be extended; but up to this time no Government has taken up the question. If any hon. Member has at any time raised the question of the extension of the boundaries of Belfast, Cork, or Dublin, he has been told to wait until, the whole question of Local Government in Ireland can be dealt with; but I fail to see what there is to prevent the Government from bringing in a Bill at once. It is quite apparent, from the silence of three of the hon. Members for Belfast, that they have not the courage to get up and express

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and the other by sending Representatives to this House. Hitherto the working classes have been deprived of their rights to the municipal franchise, and the result has been that those who have put forward the interests of the Corporation have enjoyed a monopoly of the representation. I must express my deep regret that the hon. Gentleman the Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. H. H. Fowler) is not here to give the House his views on the suggestion which has been thrown out from this side of the House. We are most anxious to have the views of the Government on this question; and we shall do the only thing in our power this evening-namely, divide against this Bill in favour of the proposition of

my hon. Friend. I hope that whenever we may have an opportunity of raising this question again we shall be able to protest much more vigorously than tonight against the great injustice it is proposed to inflict on the citizens of Belfast.

MR. SEXTON: I think the time has now arrived when the House may proceed to take a division upon the question. I regret that the hon. Gentleman the Chairman of Committees is absent, because I should have been quite ready to accept the suggestion of my hon. Friend the Member for the City of Cork (Mr. Parnell), and to strike out a portion of the Resolution, limiting my Instruction to the assimilation of the franchise and to provide for a new election on the new franchise. But you, Sir, have been good enough to inform me, on a personal reference to you, that as the Previous Question has been moved, you are not in a position to allow any further Motion to be moved. I regret that the Chairman of Committees is not here, and I protest against the course which the hon. Gentleman has taken, because, by the form of his Motion, he has put it out of my power to amend my Instruction in the way I have indicated. I will only add that the division is on the merits of my Motion. If the Motion should be successfully evaded by carrying the Previous Question, I shall, on the consideration of the Bill as amended, move the insertion of clauses amounting in substance to my present Motion.

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QUESTIONS.

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HARBOURS (SCOTLAND)--INVER-
GORDON HARBOUR.

DR. R. M'DONALD asked the President of the Board of Trade, Whether he, or his predecessor in office, having had notice of the following facts, viz. that a man was drowned in Invergordon Harbour, Ross-shire, in October last, that two men were immersed and nearly drowned on the 28th ultimo, and that another man was drowned on the 29th ultimo, that these accidents occurred at night, and were due to the want of light on said pier, such pier being part of a public ferry largely used, and for which the proprietor draws a rental of from £1,200 to £1,400 a year, what steps he is taking, or is going to take, against the proprietor of the said pier for the loss of life that has occurred; and, what steps he means to take to prevent loss of life in the future at this place?

THE PRESIDENT (Mr. MUNDELLA): Invergordon Harbour is a private harbour not regulated by any Statute, and over it the Board of Trade has no control. I received, last month, from one of the Police Commissioners of the district, complaints of the accidents referred to in the hon. Member's Question, and at once communicated with the proprietor of the harbour, who informs me that since the last accident he has been taking steps to obviate a recurrence of these misfortunes by providing life-buoys and by placing lights on the jetties. He adds, however, that while there are two public-houses close to the harbour it is to be feared that no lighting will suffice to prevent these accidents. In case of any laches on the part of the proprietor of the harbour, I presume a remedy could be obtained in a Court of Law.

THE MAGISTRACY (IRELAND)—MR.

JOHN O. PAYNE, J.P., CORK. MR. GILHOOLY asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, If it is a fact that Mr. John O. Payne, a Justice of the Peace for the county of Cork, refused on February 20th to attest the signatures of voters named Cotter to claims to vote at an election of Poor Law guardians, and if the voters were deprived of their right

THE CHIEF SECRETARY (Mr. JOHN MORLEY): The matter has been brought under the notice of the Lord Chancellor of Ireland, and is now receiving consideration.

POOR LAW (IRELAND)
UNION-REMOVAL OF A PAUPER BY
THE RELIEVING OFFICER.

to vote by his refusal; and, if true, what | attention has been called to the case of action the Government will take rela- William Melrose, at Selkirk; whether tive to the matter? he is aware that the Tweed Fisheries Acts give the Sheriff power to infer intent to commit an offence by fishing with an illegal implement even though no illegal implement is found on the accused; whether he is aware that the same Acts, which are private Acts, give ARMAGH the right of searching any one who may be on the banks of the river to men in the employment of a body of country gentlemen, whose only qualification to sit on that body is that they possess a Salmon Fishing; and that the fines which are levied in public courts, by the sentence of Her Majesty's Judicial Officers, are handed over to these gentlemen to be used in paying these water bailiffs of theirs; and, whether he is prepared to legislate for the amendment of this system?

MR. ALEXANDER BLAINE asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, What action the Local Government Board will take with reference to the relieving officer of the Armagh Union, who, contrary to the rules of the Board, went to Markethill recently and removed an old woman named Patterson, suffering from bronchitis, out of her bed, contrary to the wishes of her friends, had her conveyed six miles on a stormy day, which caused her death three days afterwards; whether the relieving officer had her buried, without giving notice to her friends, though he had their address; and, whether the Local Government Board will institute an inquiry into all the circumstances of the case?

THE SECRETARY FOR SCOTLAND (Mr. TREVELYAN): My attention has been called to the case of William Melrose. Law and justice is the only important part of Scottish affairs which is not under the control of the Secretary for Scotland; and I have not the responsibility of revising sentences. The sentence was inflicted under Section 69 of the Tweed Act of 1857, which section the Special Commissioners appointed to inquire into the working of the Tweed Acts recommended should be repealed, for the best of reasons. The general

by my hon. Friend in the longest clause of his Question with remarkable force. and precision. Under Section 81 of the Act of 1857 the fines inflicted go, among other purposes, to the payment of the water bailiffs. The Tweed Acts are condemned by the public opinion of almost all classes of the population of the district. I am making careful inquiries. as to the course to be proposed with regard to them.

THE CHIEF SECRETARY (Mr. JOHN MORLEY): It appears that the relieving officer visited the old woman referred to on the application of the dispensary medical officer, and found her in a very wretched state, with bad bed-state of things on the Tweed is described ding and little clothing. She had been previously in the workhouse, and when the relieving officer asked her whether she would return she expressed her desire to do so. No opposition was offered to her removal, which seems to have been effected with care. She died five days after her removal. It did not appear to be the duty of the relieving officer in particular to communicate with her friends. The case was investigated by a committee of the Guardians, who have come to the conclusion that the removal did not accelerate her death. The doctor of the workhouse also certifies to the same effect. It does not appear to the Local Government Board to be necessary to hold any further inquiry into the matter.

FISHERIES (SCOTLAND)—THE TWEED

FISHERIES ACTS.

SIR CHARLES TENNANT asked the Secretary for Scotland, Whether his

POST OFFICE (IRELAND)-THE POST-
MASTER OF BALA.

MR. HENRY CAMPBELL asked the Secretary to the Treasury, Whether, with regard to the appointment of the postmaster for Bala, the memorial in favour of Mrs. Evans was forwarded to the Postmaster General early in January; whether, as the late Government resigned Office upon the 29th January, and their resignation was

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