the National League in Ireland, but intended at some distant date to name certain measures dealing with the Land Question, and any other question which might call for the attention of Parliament. What was the practical effect of this very skilful manner of dealing with the subject? It left the National League in possession of the field. It left the National League triumphant through a great part of Ireland, and postponed to some distant date the discussion of the question of the Repeal of the Union; and this after the encouragement which the right hon. Gentleman had given to the agitation by everything he had said and done. The great charge against the late Government was that it had, by the experiment of dispensing with exceptional legislation, purchased the support of the Separatist Party in Ireland at too high a price. He thought that the present Government was open to the charge that after that experiment had failed they had adopted the same course of procedure-they proposed to proceed in Ireland without exceptional legislation at double the price. How had that arrangement been brought about? By reliance on the vague phrases used by the Prime Minister, which might mean anything or nothing, that there was nothing in the agitation which meant the Repeal of the Union. He had stated that he would insist on the authority of the Crown and the integrity of the Empire, and such Parliamentary guarantees as might be necessary to preserve that integrity. The hon. Member for the City of Cork (Mr. Parnell) was gracious enough to say that there was nothing that he could see in granting Home Rule that interfered with these conditions. The hon. Member was, of course, willing to let the Government down as easy as possible; but on this question they had the fresher mind of the hon. Member for Mayo (Mr. Dillon), who stated that nothing short of absolute and uncontrolled independence would meet the demands of Irishmen stood-not for the purpose of Party re- | told the House also that for the present crimination or Party advantage, but he did not mean to take any measures at speaking as an Irishman-[Laughter.] all of a coercive character to put down He was, perhaps, entitled to say to the hon. Member interrupting him that he had lived longer in Ireland, and knew more of Ireland, than he did he told the Prime Minister most seriously and solemnly that if he permitted that question to drift away to some time in the dim and distant future-if he did not assure them that on the 22nd of March Parliament would have an opportunity of gravely discussing his proposals as any settlement would be better than the state of unrest in which the country now was-every energy for good in Ireland would be completely paralyzed. He would ask the right hon. Gentleman the Prime Minister, would he go out into the open with his proposals, whatever they were, and give the House an opportunity of discussing them? Would he give his Colleagues in the Cabinet an opportunity of discussing them? He trusted the House would pardon him if he spoke warmly. That great question of the Repeal of the Union had been brought much to the front, partly by the fact of the return of 86 Members pledged to that policy, and partly by the existence of an organization in Ireland which was overpowering the Government of the Queen in that country. The late Government had met Parliament with a definite proposal to deal with the organization which had set at defiance, and to a great extent overpowered, the Government of the Queen in that country, and with a definite declaration on the question of Repeal of the Union. They had made a distinct declaration of policy on the question of Repeal, and offered a direct challenge on the question of bringing forward a measure to deal with the organization which he referred to. But the Prime Minister, for his own part, declined to take advantage of the proposals of the late Government, or to be "led into a trap" by taking up the challenge thrown down; but immediately afterwards, on a side issue, which had nothing to do with the real issue, defeated the late Government, and took upon himself and his Colleagues the responsibility of dealing with this great subject. The right hon. Gentleman accepted the Address in answer to the Gracious Speech from the Throne, but VOL. CCCII. [THIRD SERIES.] MR. DILLON: I beg to say that I did not use those words, nor was I reported as having used them. MR. PLUNKET: Of course, if the hon. he would withdraw them at once. He had the report of what the hon. Member had said. The hon. Member (Mr. Dillon) stated that although he might be called an extreme Irishman, he would say that he, for one, was ready to shake hands with Englishmen. They would turn over a new leaf in regard to them if they would restore to them the complete and absolute power to make laws for their own country. Those were the words used by the hon. Member; and he (Mr. Plunket) had not misrepresented his meaning. MR. DILLON: You used the word "independence" where I said "absolute power to make laws." MR. PLUNKET said, he thought that he had not misrepresented the meaning of the hon. Member to any considerable extent. He believed that the powers the hon. Gentleman asked for could not be reconciled with anything but a separate Legislature, uncontrolled by the British Parliament. No Member of the House would be more sincerely glad than he if it were possible to devise some means by which the views and desires of hon. Gentlemen representing a large number of constituencies in Ireland could be met and reconciled without setting up a separate Legislature, which, he believed, would be fraught with consequences the most fatal to the best interests of his country, and which must quickly lead to the separation of the two countries. Now, in what position would the matter stand? When, at some distant period, the right hon. Gentleman would be compelled to come forward with his policy on this subjectfor the hon. Member for the City of Cork was very willing to make a surrender of the Government as easy as possible, for he would gain everything by the delay-the question would then be lifted out of the category of measures which great statesmen had frequently declared could not be entertained as a practical proposal. This was because it was believed to be deadly and destructive to the best and most vital interests of the country. Besides, the measure would, in the meantime, receive the reputation of having the, at least, qualified support of the Prime Minister. They would find that those who were their enemies in Ireland would have their hopes raised to the utmost; and the task of dealing with the question, Mr. Plunket and, in the end, disappointing those hopes, would be more difficult than ever. The Government would find many of their friends in Ireland fall away from them, because they could not expect men to stick for ever to a cause that seemed hopeless and helpless. He did not expect the Prime Minister to bring forward his proposals at once; but he, for one, desired to enter his protest against a policy which he feared was too likely to be to the convenience of right hon. Gentlemen opposite-namely, letting this question drift along. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Sir WILLIAM HARCOURT): Sir, I rejoice to hear a speech from the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Plunket) on the subject of Irish policy. If there is anything to regret in the existence of the late Government, it is that the right hon. Gentleman-one of the greatest ornaments of the House, and an Irishman of whom Ireland is proud-was dumb on the question of Ireland. Tonight we have heard what Lord Beaconsfield called the "first wild shriek of liberty." In July and August last, when the most important determinations, which changed for ever the policy of the Irish Government, were taken by the late Administration, I desired, above all things, to know the views of the right hon. Gentleman upon those critical decisions. On that occasion we had speeches from the right hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir Michael Hicks-Beach) and the noble Lord (Lord Randolph Churchill), then the Member for Woodstock, explanatory of that policy. There were speeches from the late Solicitor General (Sir John Gorst) which we do not forget, nor the response they received at the hands of the Ulster Members. Mr. Gibson, then one of the most distinguished Members that ever sat for Dublin University, who was subsequently Lord Chancellor of Ireland, approved of the Irish policy of the late Government. In the Recess we had a remarkable revelation from the noble Lord (Lord Randolph Churchill) at Sheffield, in which he stated that a consultation had been held many weeks before the last Liberal Government was turned out as to the course of Irish policy without the knowledge and without the responsibility of Government, and that the Gentlemen who afterwards formed the late Administration were a determined to take a different course. | until within a few hours of the special Those were important decisions affecting mission of the right hon. Gentleman the the present situation, and it is surprising Member for Westminster (Mr. W. H. that the opinion of the right hon. Gen- Smith) one would have supposed that tleman opposite (Mr Plunket) was not the late Government never knew of such then heard. The right hon. Gentleman a person as a Chief Secretary to the Lord complains of delay on the part of the Lieutenant, responsible for the governpresent Government in stating a definite ment of Ireland. He (Mr. W. H. Smith) policy for Ireland, and asserts that the also disagreed, but for what reason we late Administration had made up their have no information. All we know is minds as to what they were to do in re- that after the special and inspired misference to the National League. Is that sion of the right hon. Gentleman to Duba fact? Did the late Government an- lin in the position of Chief Secretary, nounce a definite policy on that subject the eminent and estimable Nobleman left in the Queen's Speech? What was the Ireland; and the change of policy of the meaning of those "hypothetical para- late Government, agreed upon, it apgraphs?" What was the meaning-to peared, in December, was then announced borrow another phrase from Lord Bea- to the public. That is the history of consfield—of that "transient and em- what I venture to say will remain to the barrassed phantom" which went upon latest period of political history the most so hurried a mission to Ireland? The extraordinary paragraph ever occurring noble Lord opposite (Lord Randolph in a Speech from the Throne. But we Churchill), in an address to his new con- are almost as badly off as the late Gostituents at Paddington, described the vernment, for if their Lord Lieutenant late Administration as a fortunate Go- threw up the government of Ireland, vernment till the day of the Queen's ours has hardly arrived there. Now, if Speech, when it met for the first time a Government which had been in Office with a bit of bad luck. But the fortu- seven months could not announce nate Government which met with a bit policy because their Lord Lieutenant of bad luck on the day the Queen's had thrown up the government of IreSpeech was settled lost "a respectable and land on the day of the meeting of Parestimable Nobleman" (the Earl of Car- liament, it would certainly be unreasonnarvon), who, to use the language of the able to expect the present Government, noble Lord, threw up the government of whose Lord Lieutenant had hardly Ireland. That was the Government which reached Dublin, to make a definite statehad so decided a policy, and which had ment with regard to their Irish policy. made up its mind with regard to Ireland. We must have time to receive official But the noble Lord, in this same speech information. I know we are inferior to which he delivered the other night to the late Administration, because the his new constituents, stated that he had noble Lord has told us that their deterno particular reason for doubting that mination not to renew the Crimes Act Lord Carnarvon had differed from the was taken weeks before they took Office. Members of the late Cabinet. Well, I should have thought that it ought not to be a difficult thing for one Cabinet to describe the sentiments of another upon a given policy of the Government. The noble Lord is not positive whether the late Lord Lieutenant for Ireland did or did not agree with the policy of the last Cabinet; but I will assume that he did agree with his Colleagues. Then why did this estimable Nobleman throw up the government of Ireland on the day the Queen's Speech was delivered? Then there is another official who is not altogether regarded as immaterial to the government of Ireland - I mean the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant. But he has not even been mentioned, and LORD RANDOLPH CHURCHILL : No, never. The right hon. Gentleman is mistaken. SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT: Well, that is my recollection, and I think if the noble Lord will consult the unauthorized version of his speech I am not very incorrect. LORD RANDOLPH CHURCHILL : The right hon. Gentleman leaves out a very important qualification. I said some hon. Gentlemen who formed the late Administration came together some time before the question of renewing the Crimes Act came up in Parliament, and came to the conclusion that in absence of official information that might be subsequently furnished, it did not [Fifth Night.] X 2 appear on the surface of things that there was cause for a renewal of it. SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT: I am sorry I did not read this qualification. There is not the least doubt that if a Government finds information that leads them to reverse their policy they will do so. I admit that it was a very important decision; and though, no doubt, the noble Lord wished it kept a secret, as it was from his own Party, people are indiscreet, and it must have got out. But I will not dwell on that except to say it is not usual and not very prudent for a Government with responsibility to come to such a determination. But I do not feel justified in detaining the House upon what is really a question how long we shall continue to debate the Address. We cannot be expected now to make a declaration of Irish policy. My right hon. Friend (Mr. Gladstone) has said he will make his declaration at as early a period as he prudently can. The difficulties surrounding the question, the complexity of the social condition of Ireland, and the difficulties of the political situation, have been admitted. We must be cautious, and must discuss this matter in as temperate a spirit as we can. No man can admire the eloquence of the right hon. Gentleman more than I do; but the question is hardly improved, nor can it be determined, by eloquence. There are hard questions of fact to be dealt with. My right hon. Friend at the head of the Government does not intend at the present time to make any proposal, and has given his undertaking that this matter shall be brought forward at as early a period as the difficulty and complexity of the question will permit. It is premature and profitless to proceed with an imperfect discussion. The right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Plunket) says the Prime Minister proposes a skilful course ; but I say it is a common-sense course, and that any other would have only provoked the bitterest discussion upon a question not yet ripe for discussion, and upon which we are not prepared to announce a policy. LORD GEORGE HAMILTON said, he should not have taken part in the debate if it had not been for the remarkable speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer (Sir William Harcourt), in reply to the temperate request of his right hon. Friend (Mr. Plunket). They Lord Randolph Churchill were now asked to assent to the Address in reply to the Speech, which contained paragraphs declaring that the Union was a fundamental law of the Realm, and announcing that measures for the restoration of social order in Ireland were to be introduced. Now the Prime Minister asked them to assent in substance to those paragraphs. MR. GLADSTONE: Assent to the whole substance of the Address. LORD GEORGE HAMILTON: Assent to the whole substance of the Address; and what his right hon. Friend wanted to know was, whether they were to assent in all sincerity, or merely for the purpose of gaining time and lulling to sleep suspicions which the right hon. Gentleman had created in every part of the United Kingdom? To this request they had the speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer (Sir William Harcourt) just delivered, which was merely a repetition of one of his hustings harangues. It was unwise of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to call attention to past controversies; and if the Government did not tumble to pieces in the next few weeks, his impression was that the right hon. Gentleman would be very glad not to be reminded of the expressions which he had used in those speeches of his. The last occasion on which the right hon. Gentleman addressed a public audience, subsequent to the elections, he made certain remarks of a peculiar character. He declared that he was not anxious to turn out the late Government. What he wished was "that they should stew in their own Parnellite juice." And he proceeded to say— "They would then stink in the nostrils of the country; and when they were flung, discredited and disgraced, to the country, the nation would pronounce final judgment upon them." That was the opinion the right hon. Gentleman expressed a few weeks ago with reference to one section of that House the followers of the hon. Member for the City of Cork. Did the Chancellor of the Exchequer still entertain the same views?-because, as had been pointed out, the National League were, at the present moment, in a great part of Ireland in possession of the field. Was it to be supposed that because, in June last, the late Government were not prepared to renew the Coercion Bill, the present Government it can be held a fitting mode in which a great Assembly like the Imperial Parliament should meet that state of things? I say, on the contrary, it is a dangerous, a tricky method for Parliament to adopt to encounter national dissatisfaction, if it really exists, with the assurance that may mean anything or nothing, which but which, when the day of trial comes, may be may. attract a passing breath of popularity, found entirely to fail them. It is a method of proceeding which, whatever Party may be in power, or whatever measures may be adopted, trust this House will never condescend to adopt." things having developed much since in | vague promise of an intention to inquire into Ireland-were justified in withholding all mention of their policy for the reason stated? What was that reason? That, although the Government came into Office on the Irish Question, they were in such a position that they were not even ripe for the announcement of any policy. Speaking for himself, having lived a large part of his life in Ireland, he would, under the same circumstances, arrive at the same decision which he arrived at last June as to the Coercion Act; and if the right hon. Gentleman thought they were wrong, he might have reflected upon the argument of Mr. Shaw Lefevre, who stated that it would be absurd with the one hand to largely extend the franchise, and with the other deprive the Irish people of their civil liberties. This only showed that greater value ought to be attached to their ultimate decision, because they had shown that they were most reluctant to introduce coercion. As the late Government had been practically turned out on the Irish Question, their Successors ought to be prepared with an alternative policy. What was the course which the Government proposed to take? They proposed to leave them absolutely in the dark for a month as to their Irish proposals, and then to commence an examination of the question. MR. W. E. GLADSTONE: We have commenced it now. LORD GEORGE HAMILTON: You have commenced it now? MR. W. E. GLADSTONE: Yes. LORD GEORGE HAMILTON said, the examination which had commenced was to apply to a noble Lord (Lord de Vesci), one of the most prominent members of the Loyal and Patriotic Union. Why, the right hon. Gentleman had adopted the very policy which he had most energetically condemned a short time back. Some years ago a proposal was made to examine into the grievances of Ireland, with the view of suggesting some remedy, and the right hon. Gentleman expressed himself with great clearness on that policy. Here was the passage which he happened to come across a few days ago— "What is the proposition? He (Mr. Butt) says great dissatisfaction exists in Ireland, and we are to promise to inquire, with a view to a removal of this dissatisfaction. If dissatisfaction exists in a country, does he think the That was the course which the right hon. Gentleman and his Colleagues were now adopting. [Mr. GLADSTONE: No.] Well, if any Minister would get up and state that they had made up their minds on the two important questions mentioned in the Address, they would remove many doubts entertained in different parts of the country. During the recent elections the Chief Secretary for Ireland (Mr. John Morley) was very sarcastic on the course adopted by the late Government. He spoke of it as a policy of "soft words and hard cash." If they had initiated such a policy, they did it for the purpose of preserving the Union; but the Ĝovernment was now borrowing the policy of soft words and hard cash, as far as could be made out, to undermine the Union. If there was any one person in the House who ought to have been prepared with a policy, and to whom they had a right to look for explanations, it was the Chancellor of the Exchequer. No man had used such violent language towards the hon. Member for Cork and his Friends as the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He recollected him denouncing the doctrines of the hon. Member for Mayo (Mr. Dillon) as those of assassination and treason, and he declared that the object was to gain "nefarious ends by felonious means." That was the language the Chancellor of the Exchequer applied to an Association which he proposed to leave paramount over Ireland, and who, to-night, declined to indicate any step for putting down what he had so strongly condemned. When, last year, the danger in Ireland of the extension of the franchise was pointed out, the Prime Minister, when confronted with the possibility of 85 Members being returned to Parliament pledged to Home Rule, said he had sufficient confidence that hon. Mem[Fifth Night.] |