which reached us, and which we very acrefully considered, with reference to the state of Ireland? The right hon. Gentleman has twitted us with having been six months in making up our minds as to the policy MR. W. E. GLADSTONE: I found no fault whatever with the Government for taking six months to make up their minds; I found fault with the noble Lord opposite (Lord Randolph Churchill) for demanding from us a declaration on the first day of our meeting Parliament as a Government. SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH: Well, but, Sir, it is not accurate-it is not the fact to say that we took six months to make up our minds in the matter at all. We arrived at a certain conclusion, which we announced to the House after our acceptance of Office, with reference to the non-renewal of repressive legislation for Ireland. We stated, at the time, that we came to that decision in the belief that the powers of the ordinary law would be sufficient to enable the Government to deal satisfactorily with the state of Ireland. That, of course, was a decision that required time to test. It was tested throughout the autumn-I announced myself, during the autumn, that if we found that the powers of the ordinary law were insufficient for the purpose we should have to apply to Parliament for further powers. At the time that Parliament met in January we were in this most difficult position-that my noble Friend the late Lord Lieutenant of Ireland (the Earl of Carnarvon) had resigned that post, and the Minister primarily responsible for the government of Ireland was necessarily new to his work. What did we do? We did not alter our policy between the delivery of the Gracious Speech from the Throne and the day upon which I announced the intention of my right hon. Friend (Mr. W. H. Smith) to bring in a Bill for dealing with the National League and other societies of the kind. But we stated plainly in the Speech from the Throne that "No effort will be spared on the part of my Government to protect my Irish subjects in the exercise of their legal rights and the enjoyment of individual liberty. If, as my information leads me to apprehend, the existing provisions of the law should prove to be inadequate to cope with these growing evils, I look with confidence to your willingness to invest my Government with all necessary powers." That was the statement in the Speech. What did it point to? It pointed to this-that we had not, at that time, actually decided what were the precise means by which the state of things which we described would be most successfully met. That was a matter which necessarily had to occupy very grave attention; and as soon as it was possible I stated to the House the decision at which we had arrived upon the recommendation of my right hon. Friend the Member for Westminster. I will venture again to assert that there was absolutely no change between the declaration in the Gracious Speech from the Throne and the announcement subsequently made to the House of Commons. That announcement was based upon the very serious fact which appears somehow to have been forgotten or overlooked by the Government in the course of this discussion. We stated our opinion as to the serious condition of Ireland in regard to social order, and the necessity which had grown into existence of adopting exceptional measures for dealing with it. Were we right, or were we wrong, as to the facts of the present social condition of Ireland? Were we right, or were we wrong, as to the power exercised by the National League in many parts of the country, as to the supersession by the National League of the ordinary government of the country, and, indeed, of law itself in many cases? If we were wrong, if the right hon. Gentleman the present Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland (Mr. John Morley) has different information from that which reached us, if he can show that the state of Ireland is not what it was described to the House of Commons by my right hon. and learned Friend the late Attorney General for Ireland (Mr. Holmes), then let him say so to the House. Let him put that information before the country, and no one will receive it with greater pleasure than the Members of the late Government. But if we were right in our estimate of the condition of SCOTLAND-CROFTERS AND COTTARS. MR. MACFARLANE, in rising to move, as an Amendment, the insertion, at the end of the 15th paragraph, of the following additional paragraph to the Queen's Speech: "This House humbly expresses its regret that in Her Majesty's Gracious Speech the reference to the condition of the people in the Highlands definite character, and contains no satisfactory and Islands of Scotland is of a vague and inassurance that such Legislation as the serious nature of the case demands will be undertaken, and is of opinion that, until a Land Bill dealing admitted grievances of the Highland People has in a comprehensive manner with the proved and been passed into Law, the Civil or Military Forces of the Crown should not be employed to evict those People from their hereditary homes," Ireland, then all I can say is this-that | very difficult Office of Chief Secretary it appears to me nothing can be graver for Ireland, and whose abilities, I am than the responsibility which the present sure, we all admire-I trust we may Government are incurring by postponing have from him some statement which for more than a month any attempt to may, at any rate, show that he is sensible deal with a state of affairs which would of the grave nature of the organization be a disgrace if suffered to continue in with which he has to deal, the objects any civilized country. The right hon. at which it is aimed, and the evils from Gentleman, I remember, in one of his which the country must suffer if it is not speeches, twitted us with what he sup- coped with in a very different spirit posed, at the time, to be our policy of from that which has animated the neither governing Ireland ourselves, nor speech of the Prime Minister to-night. allowing Ireland to govern itself. Well, Sir, it seems to me that, at any rate for some little time to come, he will be following a course precisely similar to that which he so wrongly attributed to us. He is Chief Secretary for Ireland; but I will venture to say this-that in the present state of affairs in many parts of Ireland he is Chief Secretary by the grace of the hon. Member for the City of Cork (Mr. Parnell), and is compelled to act according to the bidding of the National League. Well, if that be not so, let him show it to the country. Let him come forward and prove that my right hon. Friend the Member for Dublin University, who spoke to-night, was wrong in his description of the condition of the country, and then the Government will have said something in justification of their present position. Before they came into Office they pressed on us, through the Prime Minister, the immediate necessity of dealing with this question. [Mr. GLADSTONE: Of declaring your intentions.] Well, of "declaring our intentions" as to the mode in which this question should be dealt with. He told us "that whatever should be done for Ireland should be done with all the promptitude that the nature of the case required." Whatever we thought adequate for the case, whether with respect to social order or the land, let us know what it is; state it frankly to the House." That is now our demand to him, and that demand cannot be met by a postponement of the whole question for more than six weeks. Looking at what we believe to be the present condition of Ireland, I think nothing can be graver than the responsibility which is incurred by any Government of this country in doing what my right hon. Friend the Member for Dublin University so well described as "allowing matters to drift," I trust we may have from the right hon. Gentleman who has succeeded to the VOL. CCCII. [THIRD SERIES.] said that, no doubt in common with a great many, the House would be glad to hear the announcement of the Government that, on Monday next, it was their intention to bring in a Bill to deal with the Land Question in Scotland; but it was a question of great urgency, and he regretted that that declaration on the part of the Government did not meet the case which he proposed to provide for, if the House would accept his Amendment. His Amendment was not to force the Government to legislate for a settlement of the Land Question, for he imagined no pressure was required to be put upon any Government to compel them to see the absolute necessity of legislating upon the question with a view to its settlement. It was different a few years ago, when he first took the liberty which was then thought to be a great liberty-of moving on this question. It was considered a great liberty because, though he was a Scotchman, he represented an Irish constituency. That reproach-if reproach it were-could no longer be applied; for he had come back now to the House without that stain upon his character; and he appeared, as a [Fifth Night.] Y served with notices of removal. They had all their rents paid, and their crofts consisted of 2 acres of the poorest soil. These crofts were in the immediate vicinity of the mansion house, and were of a character that no farmer would pay more than £12 for the whole seven. Yet the laird derived £84 a-year from these crofts. These people went on to say that it was impossible for them to pay these rents, and that hitherto they had been paid by contributions sent by their friends in the South. In their present circumstances they could not see what they were to do. They must sub Scotch Member, to plead as earnestly as he could on behalf of those people in whose interests he had put down his Amendment. He had no wish to take up any long time in discussing the question, because his proposition was a very simple one. He could multiply instances by the hundred where, in public meeting, resolutions were carried, praying that House to grant suspension of eviction, pending the passing of the legislative measures proposed by Government. His proposal, he thought, was not without precedent; because, although not in the exact form, it contained the substance and spirit of the ill-fated Com-mit to the law, and therefore prepare pensation for Disturbance Bill of 1880. He moved, on this occasion, to ask this High Court of Parliament to grant an injunction to restrain one of the parties to a suit from ruining the other, pending the decision of this High Court on their case. That was literally the issue that was raised by the Amendment. It was an appeal for injunction against one who had the whole power-the power of totally ruining and banishing if he chose from their native homes as many as happened to reside on his property. He had no doubt there were plenty of good landlords in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland; but it was not the good landlords, but the bad landlords, they had to legislate for; and he was only now asking the House to compel the bad landlord, who brought shame upon the others, to do that which the good landlord would do of his own accord. By the law of the land a landlord had perfect liberty to evict a man, whether in arrears or not, upon six months' notice; and the reason he asked the House to accept his Amendment was because, before it was possible for the Government to pass their Bill through Parliament and bring it into effective use, the eviction season would have passed. Hundreds of evictions were now threatened in Scotland; people were having notices served upon them; and the right hon. and learned Gentleman (the Lord Advocate) knew perfectly well that in the month of May the eviction season would set in, and in order to prevent that he moved his Amendment. To show the urgency of what he asked for, he would cite a few instances, but without giving the names of the people or the places. The statement was that last Martinmas a number of crofters were Mr. Macfarlane for eviction. None of them were in arrears, and they could only rely upon the Legislature passing some measure to stop these repressive and inhuman practices. In another case, reported by the Press on the 11th of February, it was stated that a meeting was held at Cromarty for the purpose of approaching the landlord for a reduction of rent; and the statement was that Mrs. MacKenzie declined, and said she would "put the whole estate under fallow rather than give one sixpence of reduction." These were the statements that came from a people in a state of despair. In most of the cases in which evictions were threatened it was, no doubt, on account of heavy arrears; but how did they arise? They were carried forward from one tenant to another, these being kept upon the factor's books in terrorem over the tenants. For instance, £6 was fixed as the rent in the books, but £5 was all that was paid; but after a time the tenant found that £1 a-year had been accumulating as arrears which provided the excuse for eviction. There had been no disturbances and no outrages of any kind throughout the whole of Scotland. This was a peaceful, legitimate, and Constitutional demand that was being made; and he appealed to that House, to the Gentlemen who voted for the Compensation for Disturbance Bill, who voted for similar measures for Ireland, for the Land Act in Ireland, and for all the legislation that had taken place in Ireland, to do something for the corresponding classes in Scotland, and not leave them in destitution because they were peaceable. Let them not teach them to break the lawthat was a lesson that had been taught in Ireland; but he hoped that his coun trymen would not learn it. Legitimate | division the state of opinion in the House legislation was what they required; and upon the question, so that they would he asked the House, as a first step, to know who were their friends and who stand between them and a wrong-doer, were the foes. In conclusion, he begged and not between them and good land- to move the Resolution which stood in lords-though even good landlords in his name. Scotland had far too much power-more DR. CLARK, in seconding the Amendpower than ought to be trusted to any ment, said, he wanted to bring beindividuals. They could sell their land fore the House some facts in regard if they chose to Mr. Winans, and the to the position of the crofters at the sale would entitle him to give six present time. Two or three years months' notice to the whole of the native ago the hon. Member for Argyllshire population who were not under leases. (Mr. Macfarlane) managed to get the He appealed to the House and the Go- time of notice for eviction changed vernment to stand between those people from six weeks to six months; and they and what was practically sending them knew that already a large number of out of the country. These people were crofters had received that six months' attached to their own country, and he notice. Under the Scotch Act those who wanted to see them living in their own were in arrear might be turned out if glens and native hill-sides, and not dwell- they were 40 days in arrear before some ing in the slums of big cities. He date in May; and what he feared was wished they had more of them in that that a large number of crofters who position. If they had, they would not were utterly unable to pay rent in conhear so much about the distress of the sequence of the new condition of things unemployed. There was plenty of land would be turned out. The crofter did for the unemployed if they could get it not so much make his living out of the to cultivate. He had not brought a large land as on the sea; and the crofter, in number of cases before the notice of the his capacity as farmer and in his caparight hon. and learned Gentleman the city as fisherman, had lately met with Lord Advocate; but it was not because he an unparalleled condition of depression. had not the cases to bring forward in wit- As a farmer his stock had fallen about ness of what he had said. The next time 50 per cent in the last two years. In this matter was brought forward he his own county in six months the value would read case after case and take up of stock had fallen nearly 40 per cent, hour after hour. He moved this Amend- so that if the crofter sold his stock to ment with regret. He should have pre- try to pay his rent, even then he could ferred if he had been in a position to not pay it. Of course, the large farmer move this Amendment when the late felt the depression nearly as much as Government were in power-or rather the crofters, and they also required in Office, for they never were in power. protection. Only they had got capital, He was quite sure there were hon. and and the landlord might think twice beright hon. Gentlemen who would have fore he killed the goose that laid the supported this Amendment under those golden eggs-before making the capicircumstances, but who, under existing talist farmers bankrupt. The crofter circumstances, would not be able to had been paying a great deal for his support it, and he thought he would land because it was near the sea; probably have carried it. He believed but the depression in the land had the present Government seriously meant not been so great as was the depresto deal with this question, and that they sion in the fishing industry. would deal with it in a very different poor people were told to go to sea and fashion from the way in which they fish; and now, just as they were driven proposed to deal with it last year, for a away from off the best tracts of the land, great many things had happened since the steam trawlers came and drove them then. But if the Government were pre- away from off the sea by destroying pared to take away from the landlords their gear and nets. The condition of the power of evicting the people for no things in the fishing industry was very cause, why would they not do it by deplorable. During the summer a large accepting this Amendment two or three section of crofters from Ross-shire and months in advance of their Bill? He Inverness-shire came round to Wick for should be obliged to ascertain by a the summer fishing, and expected to Y 2 The [Fifth Night.] make what would pay their rents and keep their families. But, unfortunately for the crofters, last year nearly all the fish-curers went bankrupt, so that men who a few years ago were worth £20,000 were now only worth a few pence. The fish sent to Germany and other foreign countries last year did not bring to many of the curers a price sufficient to pay the cost of the barrels in which they were packed, while there was great competition from other sources, and the price of the Norway fish had been reduced, altogether making a most unfortunate state of things. The fishermen had been content to get 58. or 10s. in the pound from the curers, and next year it was difficult to conceive what their condition would be. One reason for the deplorable condition of things was because of the action of the Railway Companies, who had so much abused the power given them by Parliament to make a differential rate of carriage, which was much against the home producer, and in favour of foreigners. They charged no less than £4 per ton for fish, while they bought salt at 228. and potatoes at 30s. But the crofter, though he was now, from circumstances which he was not able to control, unable to pay his rent, did not forget his right to the land. The homes of the crofters were generally those which they had themselves built, and they were beginning to feel desperate. He thought the new Scotch Secretary should think twice before he sent troops to the Highlands to teach the Highland people what had been often taught the Irish people namely, that law often meant organized injustice. They wanted to get from the Government and the House an assurance that the men who were unable to pay rent from causes beyond their control should not be sent adrift, but should be secured until some remedial legislation was enacted. He had much pleasure in seconding the Amendment of the hon. Member for Argyllshire. Amendment proposed, At the end of the 15th paragraph, to insert the words, "This House humbly expresses its regret that in Her Majesty's Gracious Speech the reference to the condition of the people in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland is of a vague and indefinite character, and contains no satisfactory assurance that such Legislation as the serious nature of the case demands will be undertaken, and is of opinion that, until a Land Bill dealing in a comprehensive manner with Dr. Clark the proved and admitted grievances of the Highland People has been passed into Law, the Civil or Military Forces of the Crown should not be employed to evict those People from their hereditary homes.”—(Mr. Macfarlane.) Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted." MR. RODERICK McDONALD said, he had lived for 20 years among the crofters, and could bear out the statement of the hon. Gentleman the Member for Argyllshire. The fishery was in a dreadfully bad state, and the crofters were quite unable to pay their rents, which were greater than the holdings were worth. It was not proposed that the declaration in the Amendment should last for years, but only for one year, by which time the ejectment season would have passed, and they hoped for a satisfactory measure enacted by the Government. Surely for one year the landlords could afford to let the matter lie. If the landlords meant to force the people to pay rents it simply meant driving them off the land, and they all knew the results. An eviction was simply a sentence of death to many of those people. It was all very well for the landlords to say-"We must have our rights;" but the people had rights as well as the landlords. In the Highlands many of them had rights superior to those of the landlords. How many of the proprietors had bought the land? The Argyll and Sutherland families had paid nothing for those lands on which these crofters lived; and he hoped that in this 19th century such landlords would not be allowed by means of evictions to turn the people adrift. In many cases the land had been kept for the landlords by the strong arms of their forefathers, and by nothing else. It was no use trying to get blood out of a stone, and it was no use trying to get money from the crofters, because for a long time they had paid their rents from money they did not get from their crofts, and now they had no more to pay. He would heartily support the Amendment, hoping that by this time next year they would have no need for such a Motion. MR. PICTON said that, as an English Member, he desired most heartily to support the Amendment. He had taken means of informing himself on this subject, and he was persuaded of the urgent necessity of speedy legislation. But |