mented upon by Lord Justice Fitzgibbon | hon. and learned Member was good and Lord Justice Barry. After the enough to say that he could not expect judgment given by those two learned me, who have been so short a time in my Judges he (Mr. Healy) thought Colonel present Office, to have mastered all the Lloyd should not be allowed to remain details of the case; and that is perfectly one moment longer in the office of Clerk true, and I have a right to some allowof the Peace. The case might appear a ance in the matter. But, in fact, the paltry one; but it was in miniature a details of the case between Colonel picture of the violence of the oppression Lloyd and Anne Shaw are not particuof the poor in Ireland. Landlordism ran larly important in forming a judgment through every pore of private and public on the issue raised by the hon. and life in Ireland, and poisoned and debi- learned Member. As I am informed, litated publio justice at its very core. Colonel Lloyd, who was Clerk of the When those landlords committed crimes Peace for the county of Monaghan, for which they ought to be whipped at brought an action of ejectment against the cart-tail, and even when their deeds Anne Shaw. It was brought in the Civil had been branded as crimes by a Judge Bill Court of Monaghan, and a decree got. like Mr. Justice Fitzgibbon, they were Anne Shaw appealed; and, by consent, allowed to retain their positions. They the decree was affirmed, Anne Shaw to all heard a great deal about injuries in- get a lease of the place. After a conflicted in Ireland upon people who were siderable time, the lease not having very well able to take care of them- been taken out, through Shaw's own selves; they could write to the news- default, according to Lloyd, he executed papers and make the House and the the decree, and, according to what I have country ring with their injuries, while long looked upon as a very barbarous this poor woman had been deprived of usage, pulled down the house. Anne her rights by oppressors who were re- Shaw then brought an action compelling ceiving public money. If this man's the granting of a lease, and for damage. conduct was allowed to pass unchal- Lloyd moved to remit the action from the lenged, he would say that no matter Superior Courts to the County Court; how the figure-heads in public positions the Court of Exchequer refused to changed with different Governments, the grant the order to remit, and, on appeal men at the wheel were the same old by Lloyd, the Court of Appeal conhands, and Dublin Castle remained the firmed the order of refusal. Then comes same as regarded the protection of the the offence. At the hearing of the apoppressor. In conclusion, he begged to peal two documents purporting to be move the Resolution of which he had copies of the Judge's order at the Assizes, given Notice. and both signed by the Deputy Clerk of the Peace, were produced, one of which was less favourable to Anne Shaw than the other; and there appears to be no doubt that Lord Justice Fitzgibbon did make the very definite condemnation of this duplicate copy of the decree referred to by the hon. and learned Member. The difference between the two copies was relied upon by the Court as one of the grounds for not sending the case to be tried before a Court of which Lloyd was an official. No falsification was attributed by the Court, and no maTHE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRE-terials existed for forming an opinion on LAND (Mr. JOHN MORLEY): I do not suppose that any Member of the House will think that the hon. and learned Member (Mr. T. M. Healy) has done anything but his duty in bringing before the attention of the House what, for my own part, I must admit is a very serious and disagreeable-looking affair. The Amendment proposed, To leave out from the word "That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "the falsification of the records of the Monaghan County Court by the Clerk of the Peace, observed on by the Court of Appeal, calls for the immediate removal of the officials implicated,"-(Mr. Timothy Healy,) -instead thereof. Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question." Mr. T. M. Healy the question. As this and other matters relating to the case form the subject of an inquiry before a Judge and jury, I am advised that it would be contrary to usage, and it appears to me it would be contrary to common justice, to interfere in the matter of the falsifying, if I may use the word, of these documents until MR. T. M. HEALY said, that after the statement of the right hon. Gentleman he would not press his Motion further, and begged to withdraw it. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. the case itself is decided. I can only pro- | issued to the House. Those Instrucmise the hon. and learned Gentleman tions made special provision for marking that if I am still in Office when the case off a sufficient amount of grazing and is decided, I will not lose sight of it, garden land for the support of the Naand every effort will be made to impress tive tribes; and the Commission were upon those whom it concerns my own also to report upon the validity of Eurovery strong opinion of what is much pean claims. Affairs in Zululand would wanted in Ireland-not more by one not be allowed by the present Heads of section of the people than another-a the Colonial Office to pass as matters of strict, and scrupulous, and literal ad- indifference to this country. He would herence to the spirit of legality; and in admit that the country was not in a this of itself not very important case it satisfactory condition; but he did not may be our duty to affirm a very grave think it could be termed lawless. During principle, and possibly to read an im- the last three years, subsequent to the portant lesson. death of Cetewayo, numerous intertribal disputes had taken place, in the course of which, the Usutus having called in the Boers to assist them against the Chief Usibepu, the Boers had since remained in the country, and established themselves on land which they had appropriated to their own use; and, therefore, a telegram, dated the 4th of January last, had been despatched to Sir Charles Mitchell by the late Colonial Secretary, which he read to the House, and which marked out generally the policy which the present Government were prepared to follow in regard to the Boers in Zululand. With reference to the sale of intoxicating liquors in the Transkeian territory, he was not able at present to give an answer to the hon. Gentleman's Question, having been so short a time-only a week-in Office, and he thought he was entitled to fuller Notice; but if the Question were repeated next week, he would endeavour to give the fullest information which might then be at his disposal. He believed, however, there was a prohibitory Proclamation of the nature referred to by the hon. Baronet (Sir Robert Fowler) in force throughout the country. AFFAIRS OF SOUTH AFRICA. QUESTIONS. OBSERVATIONS. SIR ROBERT FOWLER, in asking the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies, Whether his attention has been called to the land claims in Bechuanaland, the title of the Boers to land in Zululand, and the sale of intoxicating drinks in the Transkeian territory? said, he thought that, even though they might not go so far in opinion upon the drink question as Sir Wilfrid Lawson, they would all acknowledge that the drink traffic among uncivilized races led to great abominations. MR. A. W. HALL asked for an explanation of the meaning of the Suzerain rights which Her Majesty exercised over Bechuanaland; and for some information as to the commercial relations with the Transvaal? THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE (Mr. OSBORNE MORGAN), in reply, said, that on the 7th of October a Land Commission was appointed in Bechuanaland, of which Mr. Justice Shippard was President, supported by two other Commissioners. The object of the Commission was to inquire into and report on the validity of land claims, and to ascertain what persons had good and valid titles to land. The Commission had been at work for about three months, and had apparently given satisfaction. The Instructions given by Sir Hercules Robinson to the Commissioners were in print, and would shortly be SIR FREDERICK STANLEY said, he desired to express his satisfaction at what had fallen from the right hon. and learned Gentleman the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies (Mr. Osborne Morgan) with reference to the question of policy in Zululand, although he had not been able to hear his observations regarding Bechuanaland. He (Sir Frederick Stanley) was glad to find that Her Majesty's Advisers, like Her late ones, were not prepared to allow matters in Zululand to be viewed with indifference in this country. He must frankly take upon himself any blame there might be for any want of action | a reversal before, he considered it would during the past six months with regard to be wrong to lead them to believe that Zululand. When Dinizulu, the son of this country would give them such active Cetewayo, had invited some of the Boers support as would induce them to take up in the Transvaal to assist him in the a position which the predecisions of the intertribal war beyond the Reserve, cer- late Government might not sustain. He tain of the Boers took advantage of the had had an opportunity of consulting Sir Treaty that was made, being vague in Henry Bulwer upon this question; and its terms as to the extent of the land and his views as to what action with regard the number of persons to whom it ap- to Zululand would be practicable and plied. He wished that he could think expedient had been embodied in certain that both the Boers and the Zulus had Papers. The policy which he (Sir been otherwise than willing to leave the Frederick Stanley) was prepared to reTreaty in a condition that was as inde- commend to his Colleagues, but which finite as possible. In fact, he fully be- circumstances had prevented him doing, lieved that the terms, which were un- was embodied in a Memorandum which necessarily vague, were purposely left so he frankly placed at the disposal of his with the knowledge of many persons upon noble Friend who had succeeded him in both sides. A very much larger number Office. His own view was this-he beof Boers, in consequence, than those lieved that the Boers, whether they with whom the Zulus had been in cor- called them the "New Republic" or not, respondence flocked in, and on the had acquired moral rights to some exstrength of the agreement began to tent by lapse of time, by tacit recognition settle down and survey or "ride out on the part of the late Government and part of the country. They had done this their Predecessors, and by right of in the name of a body which was set up Treaty, although the latter had been uncalling itself the "New Republic." Mr. duly strained. They could not, thereEssellon, the so-called Secretary of State fore, be treated as interlopers, and cerof that body, a gentleman of very great tainly ought not to be dispossessed by ability, came over to England to see him, any force without full inquiry. On the and to ask for recognition from Her other hand, as he had stated, there could Majesty's late Government. On the ad- be no moral doubt that the Treaty had vice of his Colleagues, he (Sir Frederick been strained much too far; for some Stanley) was compelled to reply that re- who certainly had taken no part in the cognition could not be accorded; and war now claimed under the agreement. up to the present time the "New Re- The Zulus had, for the first time, subpublic" had not been recognized, except mitted the state of affairs to us, in order to as a certain number of individuals acting effect an arrangement, so that now there together with no authority as a State. were three parties concerned in these The New Republic," however, or per- matters. There were the Boers who sons acting on its behalf, began to mark claimed the farms they occupied, there out farms right down to St. Lucia Bay, were the Zulus who asked to be defended, where, whatever might be the value of and there was Natal whose interests the territory as regarded the future, the were the most important of all. He Protectorate of this country had been de- was not without hope that the services clared. That was known to the Boers, of some person possessed of influence and it was clear that Her Majesty's Go- like Mr. Randolph-a gentleman who vernment could not allow any inter- had the rare merit of combining in his ference with the territory. Perhaps he own person the confidence both of the might say that having regard to the Dutch and the English Colonists, and state of political affairs, and of the pos- who, from his knowledge of the locality, sibility of that which had since come to was well qualified for advising what the pass, he did not wish to lead the Zulus, Government should and should not or any persons, to believe that Her Ma- allow-might be made use of in arrangjesty's Government were going to take ing a fair boundary. What he had a course of action distinctly in favour of seen in the newspapers that morning the Zulus, or one distinctly against their encouraged him in thinking that that claims; because, having in view-and might be done. He did not believe he said this without meaning to be offen- that the New Republic of the Boers sive-what had occurred in the case of would be dissatisfied if, whilst refusing Sir Frederick Stanley force. A certain attempt which might have turned to filibustering had been made soon after the establishment of the police; and it was necessary to take the precautionary step of arresting certain persons engaged in it. If filibustering was promptly dealt with in that way, a great deal would be done for the pacification of the country. The reports from Basutoland, also, were highly satisfactory. Too much could not be said in praise of the Resident, Colonel Clarke, who exercised a remarkable degree of influence over those with whom he came in contact. The Chiefs appeared to have come under his sway; and certainly the pacification of Basutoland was greatly due to the personal influence of that officer. He begged to apologize for intruding on the House; but as his own action had been alluded to he thought it right to state what had taken place when he was at the Colonial Office. do now leave the Chair," put, and Main Question, "That Mr. Speaker agreed to. SUPPLY-CIVIL SERVICES (SUPPLE- to treat with them as a separate body, we advised that recognition by the Zulus of certain terms to be prepared. He believed it would be perfectly consistent with the interests of this country, of the Zulus, and of the Transvaal, that a delimitation should be made by amicable arrangement, though, judging from the past, he did not suppose it would be altogether free from danger or difficulty. He thought he was doing the best in his power by bringing all these matters as far as possible upon a road which would be common to the late Government and their Successors. He was simply speaking for himself, and he was glad that the right hon. and learned Gentleman had said that Lord Granville saw no reason to depart from the course hitherto pursued; and he might possibly bring these matters, without the interposition of an armed force, to an amicable settlement. Up to the time he (Sir Frederick Stanley) left Office the latest information with respect to Bechuanaland was satisfactory. The Land Commission was either sitting or about to sit; and nothing could have exceeded the satisfactory nature of the general Reports that the Colonial Office had received on the subject. As those who took an interest in the matter were aware, the late Government departed, to extent, from the general Protectorate which their Predecessors had assumed in respect of carrying the Protectorate up to, he believed, Parallel 22. They did not think, with regard to the territory immediately adjacent to the Cape Colony, that it was sufficient, on the one hand, to extend it, or, on the other, to annex it, to the Cape Colony. CLASS Therefore, they advised Her Majesty to extend her dominion, to take in Stellaland, and that over that territory British law might be administered in the same way as in other parts of Her Majesty's territories. In connection with this matter he must mention the name of Mr. Shippard, a gentleman who commanded the confidence of every place to which he had gone. Sir Hercules Robinson had visited Bechuanaland, and had seen how Mr. Shippard's work had proceeded; and he believed that the country might soon settle down and become quiet by means of the police which had been established. Those who knew the country said that the police were better, for all practical purposes, than a military some THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREA SURY (Mr. W. E. GLADSTONE): I beg SUPPLY-considered in Committee. INGS. (1.) £3,300, Furniture of Public Offices, Great Britain. GENERAL SIR GEORGE BALFOUR said, that he congratulated the hon. Member for Bodmin (Mr. Courtney) on being nominated to the important Office of Chairman of Committees, and felt confident that the House and country would be well pleased to have the benefit of that hon. Gentleman's knowledge and experience in that Office. He (Sir George Balfour) would also add that as in the new Parliament there were a very large number of new Members, he presumed all of them were anxious, while securing the efficiency of the Public Service, to bring about a more thorough condition | should be spent; but my right hon. of economy in the Public Expenditure Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, than had existed hitherto. He trusted the then Home Secretary, would not greater attention to the Estimates would sanction, in the first instance, any exbe given than in past years. He re- penditure beyond £1,000. I am glad gretted, therefore, to have to point out to say that the total cost of the alterato new Members that there was no in- tions which have been made, including formation contained in the Estimates the hiring of the Town Hall at Wandsnow submitted to Parliament which worth for police purposes, has not excould possibly afford any guide to them ceeded £800. Under the circumstances, upon points of that nature. In point of I think that a very satisfactory settlefact, under such circumstances, it was ment has been made in a matter in almost a waste of time to enter into a regard to which there has certainly been discussion of the Estimates at all. It a considerable amount of public inconwould be better to pass the whole of the venience. present demand of £250,000 without discussion. It was only 1 per cent of increase in the Civil Estimates, and the amount annually added had been nearly £1,000,000 a-year. Vote agreed to. (2.) £500, Metropolitan Police Court Buildings. GENERAL SIR GEORGE BALFOUR asked for some explanation of this Vote, which, upon the face of it, was intended to be applied in providing better accommodation for the Wandsworth Police Court. That was a question which had been before the House for some years, and invariably objected to both by Members and by the Government, the plea being that until the Municipality of London was settled the reform of the Wandsworth office could not be entertained. Now, without any warning the money was asked for, and he wished to know how the matter had been settled? THE SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY (Mr. H. H. FOWLER): I wish to explain that the Vote is due to the necessity of providing better accommodation in the way of Police Courts in London. As the hon. and gallant Member has said, the case of the Wandsworth Police Court has been before this House for 10 years, and it has very frequently been a matter of discussion. Last year the House expressed a strong opinion that the Court ought to be improved, but that the charges ought to be thrown upon the Metropolis. Pending the passing of a measure for reforming Municipal Government in the Metropolis, it was deemed necessary, in order to secure the proper administration of justice, that something should be done with regard to the Wandsworth Police Court. It was suggested that a sum of £1,500 General Sir George Balfour Vote agreed to. (3.) £300, Dover Harbour. GENERAL SIR GEORGE BALFOUR: I think that the Committee ought not to be called upon to pass this Vote, unless some assurance is given by the Government in regard to the nature of the works which are intended to be undertaken in the future. I am afraid that the unwise step already taken of building barracks for convicts before the House has had a full and clear detail of the kind of harbour works and cost thereof will be pleaded in urging on this costly harbour; and if this item is agreed to it will only be used to strengthen the cry of Parties for the commencement of a very large expenditure indeed, as to the propriety and utility of which there are very considerable doubts. The Chancellor of the Exchequer will recollect that Votes have already been taken for the erection of a convict prison at Dover, as it was intended to construct the works in connection with the harbour by means of convict labour. But although I have repeatedly asked to have Estimates submitted to the House, I have invariably been told that these expenses were only preliminary. More than once a distinct promise has been given that before any permanent expenditure was undertaken à full explanation as to the nature and extent of the works, as well as their cost, and saving from the use of canals, would be given to the House. I think I am entitled to complain of the manner in which the subject has hitherto been dealt with; and, so far as Dover Harbour is concerned, I am of opinion that the money proposed to be spent would be better used for improving the fishery harbours; but if, on the respon |