WHO RUNS CHINA? Mr. HAMILTON. Who is in charge of China today? Mr. HABIB. The party, and the Chairman's hold of the party remains very significant. Mr. HAMILTON. Do you have a feeling that Mao Tse-tung is very much in control of things, that he is on top of all of the issues and makes the final decisions? it. Mr. HABIB. He wields great authority and there is no question about Mr. HAMILTON. Did you see Chou En-lai on this last trip? Mr. HABIB. No, nor on the previous trip with the Secretary. Mr. HABIB. This is correct. OPPOSITION GROUPS Mr. HAMILTON. Are there any groups that you can identify in opposition to government policy today in China? Mr. HABIB. Groups in opposition? I don't think that is the way things emerge. I think there are probably differences of options, debates between elements at different times on different issues. But groups in opposition, I suppose the answer to that would be no. As far as we can discern-remember, you are not dealing with a crystal clear picture of the political situation-as far as we can discern, with respect to these matters of fundamental policy there may have been debates but the policy pursued does not receive opposition in the sense that you are implying. UNCERTAINTY AND CAUTION Mr. HAMILTON. Some of the witnesses before this subcommittee have given me the impression at least that there is today in China a great deal of uncertainty about future American political leadership because of our elections coming up and likewise in America there is a great deal of uncertainty about future Chinese leadership because of the age of the most prominent leaders, and that as a result of these perceptions now is the time when both sides will go slow in making any kind of moves or initiatives. Do you think that is an accurate analysis or perception? Mr. HABIB. Not particularly. I have heard the opposite perception among analysts. You pick your analyst and take your choice. That is not the way they behave toward us. They don't discuss our political situation with us and we don't discuss theirs with them in those terms. Whether or not one can speculate that they are taking into account the 1976 elections-of course they will take it into account. That is a fact which they must take into account in their determination of their attitude toward us or toward anything else that concerns us. I would not use the word "concern," I would say they take it into account. They have a great interest in it. They know what it means. They know what it means in terms of what can be done between now and then. They know what it means in terms of relationship between the Congress and the Executive. They know what it means in terms of the possibility of change that is inherent in our system. The one trend of speculation that you identified a moment ago, I have heard trends of speculation that were completely opposite to that among some of the scholars and academics that particularly look at Chinese affairs. BENEFITS OF TRADE AND EXCHANGE Mr. HAMILTON. One of the comments that was made to us in our last hearing by our witnesses who talked to us largely about trade and cultural exchanges was that they had some concern that the Chinese were reaping the primary benefits from these exchanges and from trade in the sense that they were fairly specific in what they wanted, they wanted technology, they wanted our nuclear scientists and so forth. We in turn were getting raw materials basically, I guess, from the Chinese in trade and sending over a large group of fairly miscellaneous people over there. Mr. HABIB. We are different societies. BALANCE OR ADVANTAGE? Mr. HAMILTON. As a result, they suggested that there might be some advantage to the Chinese in these exchanges, in this trade. Does this bother you at all? Mr. HABIB. No, it does not. We have gotten the same views from some of these people. I think you have to look at the overall program, what it was intended to do over a period of time. Is it more important, for example, that you get some exposure of the Chinese to American scholars or American visitors in certain fields than it is for them to be able to pick and choose the kinds of people they send here? We deal in two different kinds of society. Ours is a much more open society and therefore there are certain advantages in terms of their ability to attract people to go, the kind of people to go that they may seek, whereas they are much more structured and everything is arranged. The exchange program takes that into account. What we try to do in the official exchanges that we negotiate with them is get a balance that is suitable to our purposes. They try to get a balance suitable to their purposes. I would think if one looks at the whole list of exchanges since they began, and I have them here and the committee might be interested in them for the record, I can submit them to you later for the record Mr. HAMILTON. Yes, we would like them. [The following was submitted for the record:] EXCHANGES BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA AGREED UPON BY TWO GOVERNMENTS, 1972-751 1972 TO THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINÁ Congressional Delegation (Congressman Boggs and Ford) (February). 1 Most of these exchanges were sponsored by two private organizations, the National Com. mittee on U.S.-China Relations and the Committee on Scholarly Communication with the People's Republic of China. The list does not include visits by various groups which made their own arrangements with the People's Republic of China. Medical Delegation (October). National Committee on U.S.-China Relations Delegation (December-January). Table Tennis Team (April). TO THE UNITED STATES Medical Delegation (October-November). Scientific Delegation (November-December). Shenyang Acrobatic Troupe (December-January). 1973 TO THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA Committee on Scholarly Communication with the P.R.C. Delegation (MayJune). Congressional Delegation (led by Senator Magnuson) (June). Medical Delegation (June). Swimming and Diving Team (June). National Committee on U.S.-China Relations (June). Basketball Team (June). Physicists Delegation (July). White House Fellows Delegation (July-August). Teachers Delegation (August). Philadelphia Orchestra (September). Art and Archaeology Delegation (November). Early Childhood Development Delegation (November). TO THE UNITED STATES Hydro-Technical Study Group (April-June). High Energy Physicists Visiting Group (May-June). Librarians Delegation (September-November). Computer Scientists Delegation (October-November). 1974 TO THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA Acupuncture/Anaesthesia Delegation (April). U.S. Governors Delegation (May). Herbal Pharmacology Delegation (June). Plant Studies Delegation (August-September). Congressional Delegation (led by Senator Fulbright) (September). Seismology Delegation (October). Linguistics Delegation (October). University Presidents Delegation (November). TO THE UNITED STATES Seismology Delegation (April-May). Laser Delegation (June-July). Wushu Delegation (June-July). Agricultural Delegation (August-September). Plant Photosynthesis Study Group (November-December). 1975 TO THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA Congressional Delegation (Speaker Albert and Minority Leader Rhodes) (March). Schistosomiasis Study Group (April). AAU Track and Field Team (May). Congressional Delegation (led by Congressman Anderson) (August). U.S. Mayors Delegation (canceled). World Affairs Delegation (October). TO THE UNITED STATES Solid State Physics Delegation (April). PRC Performing Arts Troupe (Canceled). Molecular Biology (May). Communications Techniques Study Group (June). Scientific and Technical Association Delegation (September-October). Women's Basketball Team (November). Mr. HABIB. Take the entire list and see what sort of people have gone back and forth on official exchanges. I think it came out about the way we wanted, about even handed. There is a good deal, however not official, not covered under the formal exchange program, which is affected by the nature of our society as compared with their society. In that respect I would say they have a much more structured system of exchanges than we would have. Mr. HAMILTON. Mr. Lagomarsino, do you have any further questions? Mr. LAGOMARSINO. No, Mr. Chairman. Mr. HAMILTON. Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary. Mr. HABIB. Thank you, Mr. Chairman for your usual courteous treatment of me. [Whereupon, at 3:35 p.m., the subcommittee adjourned, subject to the call of the Chair.] UNITED STATES-CHINA RELATIONS: THE PROCESS OF NORMALIZATION OF RELATIONS MONDAY, FEBRUARY 2, 1976 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, SPECIAL SUBCOMMITTEE ON INVESTIGATIONS, Washington, D.C. The subcommittee met at 2:05 p.m. in room H-236, the Capitol, Hon. Lee H. Hamilton (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Mr. HAMILTON. The meeting of the subcommittee will come to order. This afternoon the Special Subcommittee on Investigations continues its hearings on United States relations with the People's Republic of China. In November and December of 1975 we started an inquiry on this subject in order to determine the purpose of President Ford's December visit to Peking and assess what progress had been made and could be made in improving relations. In many respects, our relations with China have not evolved since the agreement establishing liaison offices in Washington and Peking. Cultural and scientific exchanges are continuing and there is some trade, but the lack of progress on outstanding political differences makes difficult efforts to move toward normalization of relations. Taiwan stands on the center of the delicate United States-China relations. We are happy to have with us two of our leading experts on China. Dr. Doak Barnett has written extensively on China and is current a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. Dr. Allen Whiting has also written a great deal on China. He is a professor of political science at the University of Michigan and recently returned from a visit to China. Gentlemen, we welcome you before the subcommittee. You both have prepared statements. These will be entered in full in the record. We hope you will summarize those statements for us in order to maximize the time for questions by members of the subcommittee. You may proceed. I am not sure which of you wants to go first, but it doesn't make any difference. STATEMENT OF A. DOAK BARNETT, SENIOR FELLOW, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION Mr. BARNETT. All right. Dr. Whiting says follow alphabetical order, so that means I go first. I am delighted to be here and take part in these hearings. I do have a statement that I am submitting for the record. What I will do is ex |