Mr. KENNEDY. You were having some labor difficulty. Did he have a conversation with you or relate to you how you could solve some of your labor problems? Mr. HELM. We had a meeting. Mr. KENNEDY. Where did you have the meeting? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. HELM. It was in, I believe, Hoboken, N. J., at a restaurant of some kind. Mr. KENNEDY. Did you have a conversation with Mr. Conlin at that time? Mr. HELM. Yes. Mr. KENNEDY. What did Mr. Conlin say to you? Mr. HELM. Well, there was our attorney from New York, Mr. Abel Just, Mr. Jacobson, our New York manager. Mr. KENNEDY. He was present? Mr. HELM. He was present. Mr. Conlin there for dinner. My sister and myself. We met with Mr. KENNEDY. Were there any other Teamster officials there? Mr. KENNEDY. What did Mr. Conlin say to you at that time at this meeting or at this dinner? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. KENNEDY. You can answer. Mr. HELM. Well, he says "Everything will be all right." It would cost us $300 a month, nothing over $20 bills. "Just go home; don't worry," he would call the New York office. "Everything is all right." Mr. KENNEDY. Could you say that a little louder, please? Mr. HELM. He said he would contact our New York office; he would take it up with the New York manager; everything will be all right. Mr. KENNEDY. What did he say about how much it would cost you? Mr. HELM. A minimum of $300 a month. Mr. KENNEDY. A minimum of $300 a month? Mr. HELM. Yes. Mr. KENNEDY. Did he tell you what the bills would have to be? Mr. HELM. Nothing over $20 bills. Mr. KENNEDY. Nothing over $20 bills? Senator CURTIS. Mr. Helm, was this conversation with you privately everyone that you mentioned at this dinner hear it? or did Mr. HELM. Mr. Conlin talked very low at one end of the table. Senator CURTIS. You were close to him? Mr. HELM. I was pretty close to him. Senator CURTIS. Is it your best judgment that the others did not hear all the details? Mr. HELM. Yes. I don't think they all heard it too good. Senator CURTIS. Did you discuss it with them later? Mr. HELM. I talked to them; yes. Senator CURTIS. And they agreed that you should do it? Senator CURTIS. Did you pay him? Mr. HELM. Yes. Not personally. Senator CURTIS. Did they disagree with the idea of payment? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. HELM. Well, the attorney said they didn't teach him that in law school. That was the attorney's answer. Senator CURTIS. They didn't like it, but they didn't prevent you from doing it; is that correct? Mr. HELM. That is right. Mr. KENNEDY. Did the attorney actually go in and meet with Mr. Conlin in the men's room? Mr. HELM. Yes. Mr. KENNEDY. What did the attorney, Mr. Just, relate to you after his meeting? Mr. HELM. Well, outside Mr. Just said Mr. Conlin told him to go back and explain the facts of life to Mr. Helm. Mr. KENNEDY. To go back and explain the facts of life? Mr. HELM. Yes. Mr. KENNEDY. Were arrangements subsequently made for the payment of some $300? Mr. HELM. Yes. Mr. KENNEDY. And was that made through Mr. Jacobson? Mr. KENNEDY. Was it explained to you that the payments were to be made once a month? Mr. HELM. Once a month. Mr. KENNEDY. At the beginning of the month? Mr. HELM. Yes. They would call. Mr. KENNEDY. Who would call? Mr. HELM. Mr. Conlin's men. Mr. KENNEDY. And would you relate how you understood the payments were made? Mr. HELM. I understood that Mr. Jacobson would take the money out of petty cash when they called him and he would have to go and meet them. Mr. KENNEDY. Where would he ordinarily meet them? Mr. HELM. Anywhere. They would specify that, "Meet me in a half hour." Mr. KENNEDY. Did you undertsand it was on a corner? Mr. HELM. Yes. Mr. KENNEDY. And they would drive up in a car and he would give it to them in a car? Mr. HELM. Well, I don't know that; how he met them. Senator CURTIS. What year did all of this take place? Mr. HELM. This was back in 1946 or 1947; somewhere back. Senator CURTIS. It began about 1946 or 1947? Mr. HELM. Yes. Senator CURTIS. How long did it continue? Mr. HELM. About 5 months or 6 months. Senator CURTIS. How did you get it stopped? Mr. HELM. Well, first we called the FBI. I didn't call them. Our New York office. I advised them to call the FBI and tell them about it, that something had to be done. The answer was that the FBI said, well, they just didn't have the manpower. Mr. KENNEDY. We find in our looking into it--you just told Mr. Jacobson to call? Mr. HELM. That is right. Mr. KENNEDY. You don't know if Mr. Jacobson ever called? Mr. KENNEDY. We don't have any information, Mr. Chairman, that this call was ever made to the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Senator CAPEHART. Who was Mr. Jacobson? Mr. HELM. Our manager in New York City. Senator CAPEHART. He was your manager, not your lawyer? Senator CURTIS. And the report you got back was that they didn't have the manpower? it? Mr. HELM. That is right. Senator CURTIS. You didn't contact them directly? Mr. HELM. No. Senator CURTIS. Although you were in favor of it and recommended Mr. HELM. That is right. Mr. KENNEDY. How long did your payments go on? Mr. HELM. Five or six months. Mr. KENNEDY. Initially when you talked to our investigator you thought they went on until you retired from your business. Mr. HELM. No. Mr. KENNEDY. They only went on for 6 months? Mr. HELM. Yes. Mr. KENNEDY. Why did you stop the payments? Mr. HELM. Well, it took money, No. 1. Mr. KENNEDY. Is that the reason? So you decided you would just stop; is that right? Mr. HELM. Yes. Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Jacobson handled all the payments, did he? Mr. HELM. That is right. Mr. KENNEDY. Did you ever meet a Tony Castellito? Mr. HELM. Not to my recollection. Mr. KENNEDY. Did Jacobson tell you that the payments were to be made to a man by the name of "Three-Finger" Tony? Mr. HELM. Yes. Mr. KENNEDY. "Three-Finger" Tony? Mr. HELM. Tony. Mr. KENNEDY. Did he say just Tony, or "Three-Finger" Tony? Mr. KENNEDY. There are two Tonys? Mr. HELM. I don't know. Mr. KENNEDY. But the initial arrangement or the initial discussions regarding the $300 were set up or discussed between you and Mr. Conlin at this meeting? Mr. HELM. That is right. Mr. KENNEDY. It was ultimately worked out with Mr. Jacobson and some representative of the local and the $300 was paid every month for approximately 5 months? Mr. HELM. That is right. Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Conlin, Mr. Chairman, is, I believe, first vice president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. Mr. HELM. At the present time? Mr. KENNEDY. At the present time. He is a member of the executive board, and first vice president. Senator CURTIS. Is there anything further? Senator Capehart? Senator CAPEHART. Did you have any trouble after you discontinued paying the $300 a month? Mr. HELM. Plenty. Senator CAPEHART. As much as before? Was there any difference between your troubles before and after? Mr. HELM. Not much. Senator CAPEHART. Not much difference? Mr. KENNEDY. Were you in fear of testifying before the committee? Mr. KENNEDY. Are you now? Mr. HELM. It is over now. Mr. KENNEDY. Were you in fear of giving testimony against some of these individuals? Mr. HELM. Yes. Mr. KENNEDY. For what reason? Mr. HELM. Maybe bodily harm; anything. Mr. KENNEDY. What makes you think that anything would happen to you? You said when I first discussed it that you were reluctant to testify, and you said something to the effect that you wanted to keep on living; is that right? Mr. HELM. That is right. Mr. KENNEDY. Do you think there is that much of a problem about coming in and testifying? Mr. HELM. It could be. Senator CAPEHART. How long have you been in the trucking business? Mr. HELM. About 25 years. Senator CAPEHART. How long did you have the Teamsters Union! Mr. HELM. Well, quite a number of years. Senator CAPEHART. Twenty years, would you say? Mr. HELM. I don't think it is that long. Senator CAPEHART. Did any of them ever harm you during the 20 years? Mr. HELM. No. Senator CURTIS. Mr. Helm, we want to thank you for being here and for the information you have given the committee. Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Jacobson. Senator CURTIS. Will you raise your hand and be sworn? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. JACOBSON. I do. TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM JACOBSON Senator CURTIS. State your name, your residence, and your business or occupation. Mr. JACOBSON. My name is William Jacobson, Rural Delivery No. 11, Wanaque, N.J. I am in the trucking business. Senator CURTIS. Mr. Jacobson, do you have counsel with you? Mr. JACOBSON. No, sir. Senator CURTIS. You are aware as a witness you are entitled to have an attorney if you choose with you? Mr. JACOBSON. Yes, sir. Senator CURTIS. You waive counsel? Mr. JACOBSON. Yes, sir. Senator CURTIS. Mr. Kennedy, you may proceed. Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Jacobson, you are now terminal manager of the Refrigeration Division of Daniels Motor Co., 80 James Street, Jersey City, N.J.; is that right? Mr. JACOBSON. That is right. Mr. KENNEDY. How long have you been in the trucking business? Mr. JACOBSON. About 27 or 28 years. Mr. KENNEDY. How long have you been with the Daniels Motor Freight Co.? Mr. JACOBSON. April 7 of last year. Mr. KENNEDY. Who were you with prior to that time? Mr. JACOBSON. Long Transportation Co. Mr. KENNEDY. For a period of time you were with L. & H. Transportation Co. ? Mr. JACOBSON. Yes, sir. Mr. KENNEDY. How long were you with L. & H.? Mr. JACOBSON. I would say around 15 years. Mr. KENNEDY. In late 1948, Mr. Jacobson, or early 1949, did you have some difficulties with local 560 of the Teamsters-were there some difficulties in New Jersey in connection with local 560? Mr. JACOBSON. I refuse to answer on the ground that the answer might tend to incriminate me. Senator CURTIS. Mr. Jacobson, what is the true reason you won't testify before the committee? Will you tell that to the committee? If you want to exercise your privilege, go ahead after that. Will you give the true reason why you won't testify before the committee? Mr. JACOBSON. No; I refuse to answer on the ground that the answer might tend to incriminate me. Senator CURTIS. That is not the reason that you think it will incriminate you, Mr. Jacobson, because this all occurred probably 9 or 10 years ago; according to the information you gave us it occurred in late 1948 or early 1959. So it is 10 years, at least 10 years ago. That is not the reason. Mr. JACOBSON. I could not truthfully answer a lot of these questions because it is not fresh in my mind. Senator CURTIS. Why not do as well as we can? Whatever you can remember, you tell us. If you can't remember the other, you can tell us that. Mr. KENNEDY. Did you have some difficulties with local 560 during approximately that period of time? Mr. JACOBSON. We had difficulties. I don't know if it was 560 or 807. We certainly had some difficulties. Mr. KENNEDY. Was there some discussion, did you understand, by Mr. Helm with Mr. Conlin about trying to settle some of your difficulties? |