Mr. STONE. Well, in plain words, we had been lying on it all the time I was working there.

Mr. KENNEDY. Were all the drivers lying?

Mr. STONE. Well, it is hard to say all of them were lying, but the majority of them were, I imagine.

Mr. KENNEDY. For what reason were they lying?

Mr. STONE. In order to make a living, it would be necesary. When you would drive in a terminal, and lay over 3 or 4 days, you are supposed to log it that way, and then you went to the next terminal, you would lay over for 8 hours.

Mr. KENNEDY. So you logged this

Mr. STONE. That is correct; my records never showed my being paid for the holidays. First I went to Mr. Mattson, and he told me to do whatever I wanted to do about it, and then I went to Mr. Keegan, and that is where I learned the type of man I was dealing with. He told me to "Go back to Mr. Overman and tell him to pay every cent he owes you."

I returned back to Mr. Overman, only seven blocks away, and evidently he was talking to Mr. Keegan, and he said he would send me back. I went back to Mr. Keegan and he completely, changed, that I could only file a grievance for 30 days.

Mr. KENNEDY. Did somebody tell you to write to the Central States Drivers Council?

Mr. STONE. Yes, sir, while I was employed there, I was given a card that I was a member of the Central States and I would be entitled to their services in any trouble I had.

Mr. KENNEDY. Did you write to the Central States Drivers Council? Mr. STONE. Yes, I did, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. Will you identify that letter?

Mr. STONE. I would like to add that I went to the Central States before I wrote this letter and the gentleman I spoke with said that Jimmy Hoffa wanted to clean up locals like that, and to put in writing what I told him. That is what is contained in the letter you speak of.

The CHAIRMAN. I hand you a photostatic copy of a letter dated July 31, 1957, shown to be from Neal J. Stone to Central States Drivers Council.

I ask you to examine it and state if that is a photostatic copy of the letter that you referred to.

(The document was handed to the witness.)

Mr. STONE. Yes, sir; it is, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. It may be made exhibit No. 80.

(Letter referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 80" for reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.)

Mr. KENNEDY. That was evidently, Mr. Chairman, from the record, forwarded on to Mr. Hoffa, and we have here a letter that Mr. Hoffa then wrote Mr. O'Brien, who is head of that local, which Mr. Sheridan can identify.

The CHAIRMAN. You have been sworn, have you, Mr. Sheridan?

TESTIMONY OF WALTER J. SHERIDAN-Resumed

Mr. SHERIDAN. Yes, I have.

The CHAIRMAN. I present to you a photostatic copy of a letter. State if you identify it and, if so, how you procured it.

Mr. SHERIDAN. This is a letter dated August 8, 1957, from James R. Hoffa to Mr. Sandy O'Brien. It was obtained from the correspondence files of local 299.

The CHAIRMAN. The letter may be made exhibit No. 80-A.

(Letter referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 80-A" for reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.)

Mr. KENNEDY. It is dated August 8, 1957. It says:

DEAR SIR AND BROTHER: Enclosed find copy of complaint filed by Neal J. Stone, a member of local 710. Am returning this correspondence to you without having taken any action.

Fraternally yours,

LOCAL UNION NO. 299,
JAMES R. HOFFA.

The CHAIRMAN. So it did come to Hoffa's attention, according to this letter.

Mr. STONE. Yes, sir. I never received a copy of that letter.

Mr. KENNEDY. That is back when Sandy O'Brien was head of the local.

Mr. STONE. But Mr. O'Brien had a copy of my letter.

The CHAIRMAN. O'Brien had a copy of your letter?

Mr. STONE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And he was head of the local?

Mr. STONE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And this letter is the only complaint that you had filed?

Mr. STONE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And so this letter, from Mr. Hoffa to Mr. O'Brien, referring to your complaint, is the complaint referred to in your letter which was made exhibit No. 80?

Mr. STONE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And Mr. Hoffa sent it back with no action. Did you ever get your money?

Mr. STONE. I never got a dime, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You have never been paid yet what the contract calls for?

Mr. STONE. I never got a dime.

The CHAIRMAN. And Mr. Hoffa brushed it off in that fashion. Mr. STONE. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. How much do you think was involved in the 4-year period for all of your claims, not just holidays?

Mr. STONE. Well, sir, as I told you earlier, I didn't put a claim in because Mr. Keegan has allowed the situation to exist so long and it has been going on years before, that I was reconciled to get 27 paid holidays. So I don't know.

Mr. KENNEDY. How much was it for the 27 paid holidays?

36751-59-pt. 56-6

Mr. STONE. Well, 27 paid holidays runs roughly $450 or $500.
The CHAIRMAN. You were willing to settle just for that?

Mr. STONE. Yes, sir; because there would be no question there. The CHAIRMAN. There would be no question, you worked on those holidays; there would be no question but that they owed you for them?

Mr. STONE. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. Or you were entitled to it under the contract?

Mr. STONE. Well, as you said, I was entitled to so much more it was silly to ask for it because they wouldn't even pay this small amount. Mr. KENNEDY. That is all, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there anything further?

Mr. KENNEDY. Thank you very much, gentlemen.
The CHAIRMAN. Call the next witness.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Keegan.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Keegan, be sworn.

You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. KEEGAN. I do.

TESTIMONY OF THOMAS KEEGAN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, LEO SEGALL

The CHAIRMAN. State your name, your place of residence, and your business or occupation.

Mr. KEEGAN. My name is Thomas Keegan. I reside in the city of Chicago. I am business representative of Local 710 of the Highway Drivers and Dockmen's Union, and have been for the past 22 years. The CHAIRMAN. You have counsel?

Mr. KEEGAN. I do, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Counsel, identify yourself.

Mr. SEGALL. My name is Leo Segall, 130 North Wells Street, Chicago, Ill.

The CHAIRMAN. Proceed.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Keegan, how long have you been an official of the Teamsters Union?

Mr. KEEGAN. I stated, Mr. Kennedy, 22 years.

Mr. KENNEDY. Are you familiar with the situation in connection with Chi-East Co. and the grievances that have been filed?

Mr. KEEGAN. On advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the questions and exercise my privilege under the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitution not to be a witness against myself.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you mean to imply that you have been on this ratting and cheating on these hardworking people and you can't give a truthful answer to a question like that without self-incrimination?

Mr. KEEGAN. Mr. Chairman, I honestly believe that if I am forced to answer the question I may be forced to be a witness against myself in violation of my rights and privileges under the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I can well appreciate it. I am not saying you are guilty or not guilty, but I can certainly appreciate that anybody who would cheat and rob and impose on and misuse working people who drive these trucks, like some of these have testified to here

today, I can certainly appreciate that it would be self-incriminating if he admitted that he had been a party to such transactions. I can appreciate that, sir.

Proceed, Mr. Kennedy.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Keegan, will you give us any explanation as to why these drivers were not able to collect their grievances?

Mr. KEEGAN. May I consult with my counsel?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. KEEGAN. Mr. Kennedy, would you repeat that question? Mr. KENNEDY. Could you give us any explanation as to why the employees were unable to collect their grievances?

Mr. KEEGAN. On advice of counsel I respectfully decline to answer the question and exercise my privilege under the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitution not to be a witness against myself.

Mr. KENNEDY. Let me ask you, are you familiar with the cent-and-ahalf arrangement that was made with the Riss Co. ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. KEEGAN. On advice of counsel I respectfully decline to answer the question and exercise my privilege under the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitution not to be a witness against myself.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know what union-busting tactics are?
Mr. KEEGAN. May I consult?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; you may ask him.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. KEEGAN. Mr. Chairman, I honestly believe that if I am forced to answer the question I may be forced to be a witness against myself in violation of my rights and privileges under the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

The CHAIRMAN. We hear a whole lot about labor baiters and union busters and all of that propaganda when we try to go in here and get some legislation to protect these people who work.

I want to tell you who the union busters are in this country. It is the fifth amendment artists who are officers in labor unions and who have responsibility and who come in here and take the fifth amendment to shield and hide the improper practices and impositions they have made against union members. If the elimination of that type of unionism in this country is union busting, then I hope we do a good job of busting, because it is a disservice to every honest workingman in this country to have officers who can't come before a tribunal like this and state the facts without self-incrimination, when the men have been imposed upon and robbed of their rights and robbed of their income, robbed of their wages as these workingmen have been, according to the testimony here before this committee.

The real union busters are the cheats and the frauds that are imposing themselves on union members today.

Is there anything, Senator?

Senator ERVIN. What was your official position?

Mr. KEEGAN. Business representative.

Senator ERVIN. As a business representative was it not your union obligation to see that the grievances of these men were processed? Mr. KEEGAN. Senator, would you repeat that question?

Senator ERVIN. I say, was it not your duty and your obligation as a business agent of your local to see that the grievances of these men,

the members of your local, against their employers, were processed and brought to a just end according to the terms of the contract?

Mr. KEEGAN. Mr. Senator, on advice of counsel I respect fully decline to answer the question and exercise my privilege under the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitution not to be a witness against myself? Senator ERVIN. Is it not the duty of a business agent-I am not asking you about yourself-but is it not the duty of the business agent under the constitution and bylaws of your union, to process and prosecute grievance claims of the members of the union against the employers?

Mr. KEEGAN. Mr. Senator, on advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question and exercise my privilege under the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitution not to be a witness against myself.

Senator ERVIN. So you are making a solemn oath to the effect that if you tell this committee about the laws of your union that any testimony you might give about the laws of your union in respect to grievances would tend to incriminate you in the commission of some criminal offense. Is that what you are solemnly swearing?

Mr. KEEGAN. Mr. Senator, I honestly believe that if I am forced to answer the question I may be forced to be a witness against myself in violation of my rights and privileges under the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

Senator ERVIN. How long have you been business agent of your local?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. KEEGAN. I previously answered the question. I will be again happy to answer it-22 years, sir.

Senator ERVIN. Have you drawn a salary during those 22 years for your work in that office?

Mr. KEEGAN. On advice of counsel I respectfully decline to answer the question and exercise my privilege under the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitution not to be a witness against myself.

Senator ERVIN, So you think it would incriminate you as a union officer to testify as to whether you drew a salary from union funds for work you performed for the local? Is that what you are solemnly swearing to?

Mr. KEEGAN. Senator, I did not quite follow you. Will you repeat that, please?

Senator ERVIN. I ask you if you are swearing to this committee, that is stated upon your oath that if you divulged how long you had been drawing a salary from your local, that the divulgence of that fact would tend to incriminate you in the commission of some criminal offense?

Mr. KEEGAN. Mr. Senator, I honestly believe that if I am forced to answer the question I may be forced to be a witness against myself in violation of my rights and privileges under the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

Senator ERVIN. Well, all the facts I can draw from it is although you have eaten the bread that these men have put in your mouth that when it came time for you to look after their interest, instead of doing so you have betrayed them.

Do you want it left standing like that?

Mr. KEEGAN. Mr. Senator, I honestly believe that if I am forced to answer the question that was asked me I may be forced to be a