of the Empire Colonies which desired to remain connected with it of their own free will. We have seen that the effect of the grant of those free institutions and of leaving those Colonies to manage their own local affairs in their own way has not been, as some predicted it would be, to weaken, but rather to strengthen, the ties between the Colonies and the Mother Country; and I do not believe that there was ever a time when they were more closely connected with or more warmly attached to the Empire than they are at this moment. Neither shall I go into the very interesting and difficult question of federation to which the noble Lord opposite (Lord Norton) alluded. Federation is a word of many meanings, which is used by different speakers in different senses. We have proof of

(the Earl of Wemyss) to bring it forward, and I think that he himself would have been actuated by the same feeling. Although the Motion is in its terms an expression of approval of the course taken by the Government, I consider that the compliment involved in it to be only in form addressed to us, and to be really intended, as we all understand, for those Colonies whose patriotic and public-spirited offers we are anxious to recognize. We have only had to accept those offers; we have done it willingly, and we have in both Houses of Parliament endea voured-I myself in your Lordships' House, and the First Lord of the Treasury in the other House in far more eloquent language than any I could command-to give expression to what I believe is the unanimous feeling of every that in what we have heard this Party and every class in this country- evening; and no one who has paid namely, our cordial gratitude for, and any attention to what has occurred at admiration of, this display of loyalty public meetings can fail to have noticed and public spirit. This Motion only that when men express their wish confirms and emphasizes the language for federation on the one hand, or held on the part of Her Majesty's Government. The noble Earl touched very lightly on an expression of regret that somewhat different answers were sent to different Colonies. On a former occasion I explained-and I would explain it again if it were necessary-that that difference in the answers arose simply from the different conditions on which the various offers were made. I do not think it is necessary that I should refer now to what the noble Earl on the Cross Benches said as to the existence of a school whose object is to get rid of the Colonies. I have heard a great deal of denunciation of that school; but having sat for a considerable time in this and in the other House of Parliament and watched the course of opinion on the question, I cannot remember to have heard that sentiment expressed by any person of the slightest importance or consideration. What I know many people did say 30 years ago was that if the more important Colonies which had obtained free institutions should show themselves, as many persons expected they would, unwilling to remain in the Empire, it would not be our duty or our interest to retain them by force; but I never heard anyone in this or the other House of Parliament contend that it was our duty or our interest to turn out

The Earl of Derby

their disbelief in federation on the other, they are talking of quite diffferent things, and that they have no one definite plan before them. If federation means only a voluntary co-operation for purposes of defence-which is the interpretation put on it by the noble Lord opposite-then I agree with him that we have it now, and I hope that we may have it for long. If, on the other hand, it means a system of federal union founded on fixed and settled rules such as those which exist in the case of the United States of America, then I think that we had better wait to discuss propositions of that kind until we have them before us in some practical shape. Expressing my own personal and individual opinion, I do not think that that will be very soon. I will not go into the subject; but an obvious difficulty in the way of any scheme of formal federation lies in the immense disproportion between the number of inhabitants of the British Islands and the number in the Colonies. In these Islands you have a population of some 35,000,000 or 36,000,000, whereas there are only 8,000,000 or 9,000,000 in all the English-speaking Colonies; and if you form an Imperial Council, call it by what name you please, and if in that Council every part of the Empire is to be represented in proportion to its popu

site of arguing against a plan which he
himself acknowledged was not in exist-
ence. All I think it necessary to say is
that there has been very strong feeling
in this country in response to the ex-
hibition of affectionate sympathy which
has reached us from the Colonies; that
there is no subject on which this country
feels so strongly as their desire that cor-
dial relations of amity and goodwill
should exist between them and those of
their own race in other parts of Her
Majesty's Dominions. That feeling has
been eminently gratified by the exhibi-
tion of loyalty and patriotism which the
Colonists have shown.
We are very
grateful to the Native Princes of India,
as the noble Earl has said, for having also
exhibited their affection for the Empire
under which they have so long been
protected, and to the people who have
done their utmost to maintain their in-
terests and promote their welfare. But,
of course, we feel still more strongly
such indications of good feeling when
they come from our own blood-from
those who have so lately quitted our
own shores. I think the feeling is uni-
versal that in acting as they have done
the Colonists have shown that they are
true Englishmen, and have behaved in
a manner worthy of the race from which
they have sprung, and the splendid
Empire of which they form so important
a factor.

lation and its importance, the result emulate the feat of the noble Earl oppowould be that the Representatives of the British Islands would carry everything their own way, and the Colonists, even if they were united to a man, would be absolutely outvoted and absolutely powerless. If, therefore, such a Body had powers of taxation, I do not say that you would altogether have a system of taxation without representation; but you would have what was practically very nearly the same thing. And, further, with reference to some of the proposals which have been made, with a view of bringing about federation, it is obvious that they could not be carried out without introducing changes in the Constitution as regards the relations between the Executive and the Legislature far wider than any which have yet been attempted in this country. But let me add one proviso. It ought not to be considered that those who do not see their way to any plan of federation are, on that account, indifferent to the extreme importance of consolidating, as far as may be, the various parts of the Empire. But, returning to what is immediately before us, I do not think I ought to sit down without mentioning what more properly belongs to the Department of my noble Friend (the Earl of Kimberley)-namely, the loyal assistance which has been offered by several of the Native Princes of India. Such expressions of loyalty and good feeling, on the part of persons situated as they are, are of the highest possible importance, and not merely as a matter of sentiment, but of practical service. I anticipate that your Lordships will, without opposition, accept the Motion of the noble Earl; and when the news is telegraphed out, as it will be, to those distant Provinces which are most concerned, I have no doubt that the mark of respect and gratitude which you have paid to the Colonists will be received by them in the same spirit in which it is offered.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: I only rise to confirm the statement of the noble Earl, that, as far as I know, the assent to this Motion is unanimous in every portion of the House. I shall not travel into any of the adventitious and somewhat controversial matters which have gathered round this Motion, and which, I think, were unnecessary to its discussion. I shall not even attempt to

THE EARL OF WEMYSS wished to make it clear to their Lordships that he had put the Motion down without consulting any Member of their Lordships' House.

Motion agreed to, nemine dissentiente.

Ordered, That the said Address be presented to Her Majesty by the Lords with White Staves.

EAST INDIA EXPENSES (MILITARY
EXPEDITION TO THE SOUDAN).

RESOLUTION.

THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY, in rising to move

"That Her Majesty having directed a military expedition of Her native forces charged service in the Soudan and Nubia, this House upon the revenues of India to be despatched for consents that the ordinary pay of such troops as well as the ordinary charges of any vessels belonging to the Government of India that may be employed in the expedition, which

would have been charged upon the revenues of India if such troops or vessels had remained in

that country or seas adjacent, shall continue to | Forces the expense would fall upon this be so chargeable; Provided that, if it shall country. In the case of the war in become necessary to replace the troops or vessels so withdrawn by other vessels or native forces, Abyssinia, I confess I am not able to the expense of raising, maintaining, and pro- see what special interest India had; but viding such vessels or forces shall be repaid out there is no question that Egypt is a of any moneys which may be provided by country in which India has a special Parliament for the purposes of the said expe- interest, and the war in the Soudan has dition," arisen directly from the necessity of protecting Egypt. I will merely mention that we have every confidence that, in this as in every other service which they may be called upon to undertake, the Indian troops will well and faithfully and nobly discharge their duty. The regiments which are being sent are all well known. They are the 17th Bengal Infantry, the gallant Sikh Regiment, the 28th Regiment of the Bombay Army, of which General Hardinge speaks in the highest terms, and also the regiment of Bengal Cavalry, the 9th, called Hodson's Horse. Neither is the Madras Army without representation, for it has sent 150 Sappers, who have a high reputation. Although the force is small, there is every reason to suppose that it will be able to render most important and valuable service to the Suakin Expedition. Moved to resolve

said: Your Lordships are, no doubt, aware that the small Contingent of Indian troops which has proceeded to Suakin consists practically of three regiments of Infantry and a regiment of Cavalry. That measure was taken at the request of Lord Wolseley, and the reason why we have now to move this Resolution is to be found in the 5th section of the Act "for the Better Government of India," 1858, which requires the consent of both Houses of Parliament before Indian troops can be employed for any other purpose than to prevent or repel actual invasion. The other House has passed a Resolution similar to that which I am about to propose. It has been necessary for us to consider which precedent on this subject we are to follow. The first occasion was that of the war in China in 1839-40. In that case all the ordinary charges were borne by the Government of India, tary expedition of Her native forces charged "That Her Majesty having directed a miliand the extraordinary charges by this upon the revenues of India to be despatched for country. Then came the war with service in the Soudan and Nubia, this House Persia in 1856, in which the ordinary consents that the ordinary pay of such troops expenses were borne by the Indian Ex- as well as the ordinary charges of any vessels chequer, and the extraordinary divided belonging to the Government of India that may be employed in the expedition, which equally between the Indian and the would have been charged upon the revenues of English Exchequers. In the next case India if such troops or vessels had remained in that of the Abyssinian War, which that country or seas adjacent, shall continue to precedent we have followed on this be so chargeable: Provided that, if it shall occasion-the whole ordinary charges so withdrawn by other vessels or native forces, become necessary to replace the troops or vessels were borne by India, and the extra- the expense of raising, maintaining, and proordinary by England. In the Expedi-viding such vessels or forces shall be repaid out tion to Malta in 1878 the whole of the expenses, ordinary and extraordinary, were borne by the British Exchequer. In the last case-the Expedition to Egypt the whole of the ordinary expenses were borne by India, and the extraordinary charges were divided between India and this country in the proportion of six to four, India contributing the larger share. The exact effect of following the Abyssinian precedent is that India will stand exactly in the same position as if the troops had never left her shores. England undertakes all the extraordinary expenditure, direct and indirect, so that if it were necessary to replace any of these The Earl of Kimberley

of any moneys which may be provided by Parliament for the purposes of the said expedition."-(The Earl of Kimberley.)

LORD NAPIER OF MAGDALA said, it appeared to him that the proposed arrangement was eminently just and fair. Those who advised the Government of India to reduce the Indian Army below the strength which the most experienced officers considered necessary for its defence relied on being able to demand immediate assistance from England on any danger arising in India; and it was only just and fair that India should return that assistance when necessary.

Motion agreed to.

of a definite Report, which will be made
as soon as possible, it would be prema-
ture to make any comment on the specific
statements and Questions of the hon.
Member. I can only assure him that
the subject shall have my best atten-
tion.

House adjourned at a quarter past
Six o'clock, till To-morrow, a
quarter past Ten o'clock. THE ROYAL IRISH CONSTABULARY-
HORSES FOR OFFICERS.

PIERS AND HARBOURS (IRELAND)-tary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland,

MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN: I find that 20 Petty Sessions were appointed to be held in this district in the six months to the 31st December last, and that only one fell through for want of magistrates. Mr. Algeo attended 13 of these. He is the only local magistrate who attends at Kiltyclogher; but there are four others who attend at Manorhamilton. The names of the gentlemen mentioned have been before the Lord Chancellor and the Lieutenant of the county; but it has not been found possible to appoint them. Mr. Corscadden, who has a property of close on £600 a-year, has been appointed on the recommendation of the Lieutenant of the county. He had been under police protection; but it was withdrawn, at his own request, in August last.

WIDOWS AND ORPHANS OF
WARRANT OFFICERS.

SIR H. DRUMMOND WOLFF asked the Secretary to the Admiralty, Whether the Board will now consider the question of compassionate allowances to the widows and orphans of Warrant Officers who have not died on active service?

MR. CAINE (who replied) said: The widows of warrant officers who do not die from the effects of injuries received on duty receive pensions of £25 a-year. It is not proposed to alter these pensions, or to make special provision for children.

NAVY-NAVAL PENSIONERS.

SIR H. DRUMMOND WOLFF asked the Secretary to the Admiralty, Whether it is intended to give to Naval Pensioners employed on the Permanent Staff of the Steam Reserve, and to Non-Commissioned Officers and men of

the Royal Marines, employed on the Permanent Staff of the Auxiliary Forces, the advantages now accorded to Army Pensioners on the Permanent Staff?

MR. CAINE (who replied) said: It is not intended to give pensioners employed in the Steam Reserve any additional pension for such service. The system on which pensions are given in the Navy is not analogous to that in force in the Army. Marine pensioners employed on the permanent Staff of the Auxiliary Forces will receive the same rate of extra pension as is accorded to Army pensioners.

SCOTLAND-INSPECTION OF RIVERS
UNDER "THE RIVERS POLLUTION
PREVENTION ACT, 1876."

MR. A. R. D. ELLIOT asked the Secretary to the Local Government Board, Whether there is at present in Scotland any Inspector of Rivers under "The Rivers Pollution Prevention Act, 1876;" and, if not, when it is intended to appoint one?

THE LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. J. B. BALFOUR), in reply, said there had been an Inspector of Rivers; but he understood his appointment was not to be renewed. The proper method of making the inspection of rivers in Scotland was at present under consideration.

POST OFFICE (IRELAND)-TELEGRAPH
STATION AT LEITRIM.

COLONEL O'BEIRNE asked the Postmaster General, If the Post Office authorities have as yet decided to establish a telegraph station in the town of Leitrim, taking into consideration the fact that twelve fairs are held annually in that town, and that a most influential memorial calling the attention of the Post Office authorities to this subject, and signed by the entire of the Leitrim Grand Jury, and by traders, farmers, and cattle dealers, was forwarded, several weeks ago, to the Post Office authorities?

MR. SHAW LEFEVRE: The Memorial alluded to by the hon. Member, which was addressed to the Acting Secretary of the Post Office in Dublin, did not reach his hands until the 2nd instant. Inquiries are being made on the subjeot of the Memorial, and as soon as they are completed I will look into the matter, and see whether it is possible to meet the wishes of the Memorialists.

LAW AND JUSTICE (ENGLAND AND
WALES)-INADEQUATE SENTENCE-
CASE OF CHARLES FOSTER, LEEDS
ASSIZES.

MR. BARRAN asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, If his attention has been called to a prosecution conducted on behalf of the Treasury at the Leeds Assizes in November last before Mr. Baron Pollock, when Charles Foster pleaded guilty to charges of forgery under aggravated circumstances, in reference to two sums of £12,000 and £8,000, and was sentenced by the learned judge to two months' imprison