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PARLIAMENT-PALACE OF WESTMIN

STER-COMPLETION OF

SIR CHARLES BARRY'S DESIGNS.

SIR HERBERT MAXWELL asked the Junior Lord of the Treasury, Whether the completion of the Houses of Parliament, according to the designs of the late Sir Charles Barry, has been under consideration of Her Majesty's Government; and, whether it is the case that, if carried out at the estimated cost of £500,000, a saving of upwards of £20,000 per annum would be effected by the discontinuance of rent paid for premises elsewhere?

MR. HERBERT GLADSTONE: The statement that the completion of the Houses of Parliament, according to the designs of the late Sir Charles Barry, would, if carried out at the estimated cost of £500,000, effect a saving of upwards of £20,000 per annum by the discontinuance of rent paid for premises elsewhere, rests on an assumption which, in the opinion of the First Commissioner of Works, is not accurate. If the hon. Baronet will refer to pp. 20 to 23 of the Civil Service Estimates, he will see that, with some exceptions, it would not be possible, without great inconvenience, to make changes in the position of premises rented by the Government, so as to effect a saving in rent of the amount stated. Moreover, it would be an act of at least very doubtful expediency to lodge Public Departments in the Palace of Westminster.

SIR HERBERT MAXWELL asked, considering the great interest attached to the complete scheme, whether the hon. Gentleman would cause drawings of the complete elevation to be placed in the Library?

MR. HERBERT GLADSTONE replied that the matter should be considered.

Sir Trevor Lawrence

REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE ACT, 1884-INSTRUCTIONS TO CLERKS OF UNIONS AND RATE COLLECTORS IN IRELAND.

MR. O'SULLIVAN asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, Whether the Local Government Board have issued any instructions to the different Clerks of Unions and Poor Rate Collectors in Ireland, pointing out to those officials the increased work which has been imposed on them under the new Franchise Act?

MR. CAMPBELL - BANNERMAN: The Local Government Board have not issued any such instructions. As I stated, in reply to a Question of the hon. Member for Sligo (Mr. Sexton), on the 23rd ultimo, the Board have performed the duty imposed on them by the Act, and have prescribed an altered form of rate book; but they do not consider that it devolves on them to go any further than this in the matter.

MR. KENNY asked if it was intended, in consequence of the increased work to be discharged by these officials, to improve their position?

MR. CAMPBELL - BANNERMAN : the other That Question was asked day.

LAW AND JUSTICE (IRELAND)—THE

GRAND JURY OF MEATH-EXEMP-
TION FROM SERVICE.

MR. SHEIL asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, Is it the fact that Mr. F. H. Langan, a Catholic magistrate in Meath, owner in fee of 1,100 acres, has never been allowed to serve on the Grand Jury for the last ten years, while one of his tenants, Mr. Handy, J.P. a Protestant, has regularly been called on the Grand Jury; if so, can he explain by what right a gentleman of inferior qualification is summoned before one of superior qualification?

MR. CAMPBELL - BANNERMAN: The summoning of Grand Juries was a matter for the High Sheriff for the year, and the Executive Government have nothing to say to it. I have, therefore, no information as to the matters stated in the Question.

MR. HEALY: Will the Government take care in the appointment of the High Sheriff that he will be a person suitable for such an appointment?

MR. WILLIAM REDMOND asked, whether it was the intention of Her Majesty's Government to introduce a Bill dealing with the Grand Jury Laws in Ireland?

MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN'S no access to any information upon the reply was inaudible. subject which was not open to everyone else. It was quite impossible for him to express an opinion condemnatory of any persons whose case had never been stated to him, and who had not had an opportunity of giving their own views on the subject. As to the question whether he would endeavour to amend the law, he could not see how he could make a declaration on the point; but if the hon. Baronet would make any suggestion he should be very happy to consider it.

MR. CAMPBELL - BANNERMAN: That is a Question which I cannot

answer.

In reply to Mr. W. J. CORBET,

MR. CAMPBELL - BANNERMAN: No, Sir. I have said that this question rests entirely with the High Sheriff.

EGYPT (MILITARY EXPEDITION TO
THE SOUDAN)-VOTES OF THANKS
TO THE TROOPS.

MAJOR GENERAL ALEXANDER (for Sir JOHN HAY) asked the Secretary of State for War, Whether it is intended to move Parliament to vote its thanks to the seamen and soldiers who fought at Abu Klea, Gubat, and Kerbekan, or to follow the precedent of El Teb and Tamai, and omit the usual vote of thanks for victories ?

THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON: In the opinion of the Government it would be rather premature at this moment, when further operations are probably imminent, to come to a decision on this subject. When, in the opinion of the Government, the proper time arrives they will give this subject their best consideration, with reference not only to the precedent referred to, but to the whole of the precedents.

PUBLIC MEETINGS-THE RIOT AT ASTON HALL, BIRMINGHAM. SIR FREDERICK MILNER asked Mr. Attorney General, If his attention has been called to the case of Regina v. Mack, or Joyce, and to the statements of the learned judge, as to the careless way in which the affidavits therein concerned were drawn; whether culpable negligence was shown on that occasion, by taking the affidavits of men of no character, without due caution and inquiry; and, whether he will give the matter his careful attention, and, if possible, so amend the Law as to render the recurrence of such proceedings impossible?

SIR FREDERICK MILNER: If I supply the hon. and learned Gentleman with full details of the facts of the case, will he, as Law Officer of the Crown, express an opinion?

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (Sir HENRY JAMES): I do not wish to be discourteous to the hon. Baronet; but I fail to see why I ought to express any condemnatory opinion.

EGYPT (FINANCE, &c.)

MR. BOURKE asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether, having regard to the answer given by the First Lord of the Treasury last Friday, the time has not now arrived for the production of the Papers relating to Egyptian Finance, "without the consent of others concerned?”

The following Question also stood upon the Paper in the name of Mr.

DIXON-HARTLAND :

"To ask the First Lord of the Treasury, If he has seen the telegram from Cairo in The Times of Saturday, which says 'The financial arrangement appears to be quite settled if not signed; and, whether such financial arrangements are settled; and, if so, how soon they will be submitted to the House?"

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE said, the two Questions referred to the same subject, and he would give the same answer.

MR. DIXON-HARTLAND said, his Question was so utterly mutilated by the way it had been altered at the Table that he declined to put it as it appeared on the Paper.

MR. SPEAKER said, what the hon. Member stated to be mutilation was the omission of a newspaper comment, which was couched in strong language, and did not contain a mere statement of fact. LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE:

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (Sir HENRY JAMES), in reply, said, he had In reply to the right hon. Member for

King's Lynn (Mr. Bourke), I beg to say that it is expected that the Financial Agreement will be signed very shortly, and the Papers and the Agreement will be laid on the Table together.

EGYPT THE SOUDAN-EMPLOYMENT

OF TURKISH TROOPS.

MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether it is true that Her Majesty's Ministry, in December 1883, prevented the Khedive from applying to His Sovereign, the Sultan of Turkey, for Military aid to relieve the garrisons in the Soudan; what are the occasions since January 1st 1884 on which Her Majesty's Ministers have "suggested to the Sultan that he should resume the direct administration of the Red Sea Littoral;" what conditions were appended to such suggestions; and, whether Her Majesty's Government have, since the fall of Khartoum, invited the Sultan to send relief to the garrison and people of Kassala?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE: On the 12th of December, 1883, the Egyptian Government expressed a wish that Her Majesty's Government should negotiate with the Sultan the conditions under which the assistance of Turkish

troops could be obtained in view of the state of affairs in the Soudan (Egypt, No. 1, 1884, p. 121), and on the following day Her Majesty's Government replied that they had no objection to the employment of Turkish troops if they were paid by the Turkish Government and employed exclusively for the Soudan. Her Majesty's Government were opposed to any operations except to secure the retreat of the garrisons (Egypt, No. 1, 1884, p. 131). In May last Her Majesty's Government proposed that the Sultan, as Sovereign of Egypt, should resume direct jurisdiction over the ports on the Egyptian Coast of the Red Sea, and should occupy them with his troops. Lord Granville has expressed his regret to Musurus Pasha that the Porte had not come to any decision on the subject. This proposal was made in the confidence that the Sultan would be ready to apply and observe, with regard to the territory so resumed, the provisions of the agreements between England and Turkey as to freedom of commerce, navigation, Lord Edmond Fitzmaurice

Customs, and the suppression of the Slave Trade. Her Majesty's Government have not invited the Sultan, since the fall of Khartoum, to send relief to Kassala.

MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT asked, whether the conditions imposed on the Sultan as to the Soudan and Egypt were that he should pay the expenses of the abandonment of the Soudan, and should be limited to entry to the Soudan solely by way of Suakin?

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE said, if the hon. Member desired further information, it had been explained to him that the Papers relating to this subject were before the House.

MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT said, the noble Lord had not fully answered his Question. He should put a Question on the subject to-morrow.

NATIONAL DEBT (CONVERSION OF

STOCK) ACT, 1884.

MR. ALDERMAN COTTON asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, If he will several Funds under his control, or that lay upon the Table a Return of the of any Department of the Government, which were converted, under the Act of 1884, from 3 per cent. to 24 or 2 per and interest, and the effect of the trans-. cent. Stock, both as regards principal action on each particular Fund, so far as the trust for which it is held is con

cerned?

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE

QUER (Mr. CHILDERS): I have no objection to give the Return. I will lay it on the Table shortly.

PATENT MEDICINES ACT-LEGISLA

TION.

DR. CAMERON asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether he has yet received from the Board of Inland Revenue those Reports on the Medicine Stamp Tax, which in the House of Commons on August 7th he undertook to "study with care; " and, if so, what action he proposes taking in the matter?

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Mr. CHILDERS): I have considered the question of the Patent Medicines Act with the Board of Inland Revenue, and also with my noble Friend the President of the Council. We have under consideration a Bill or Bills deal

ing with the subject; but I cannot say | pation and influence, in accordance with now what action will be taken during this Session.

NAVY-THE GREENWICH AGE

PENSION.

SIR H. DRUMMOND WOLFF asked the Secretary to the Admiralty, Whether Her Majesty's Government will reconsider the question of the Greenwich Age Pension, so as to give it to pensioners who retired from the service before the order of 1878 ?

MR. CAINE: The question referred to by the hon. Gentleman is now under the consideration of a Committee, over which His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh presides.

CENTRAL ASIA-RUSSIA AND AFGHAN-
ISTAN-THE RUSSIAN ADVANCE.

their own pledges and those of the Czar's Government? The hon. Member intimated that he would not press for an answer if the right hon. Gentleman should not consider it consistent with the interests of the Public Service to give one. The Question had been on the Paper for 10 days; but he was quite willing to wait until it could be conveniently answered.

SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTE: Before the right hon. Gentleman answers the Question, he will, perhaps, also reply to a communication made to him by myself, in which I stated that I also intended to put a Question of a general character on this subject-namely, whether the Government have any information which they can properly communicate to the House? And I am anxious to take this opportunity of disabusing the minds of some persons of the impression that Her Majesty's Government take unusual steps to communicate with the Opposition on this subject.

MR. GLADSTONE: I am glad to hear the words that have fallen from the right hon. Gentleman, because I think he was quite right to remove any misapprehension that may prevail on the subject, though the rumour of which he speaks did not happen to have reached

thank the hon. Gentleman the Member for Eye also for his disposition to wait, pending the course of proceedings in this extremely important matter, until the time shall be ripe for an answer. There is nothing I could communicate to the House at the present moment which would substantially improve the hon. Member's information. All I would beg of the hon. Gentleman and the House is to accept my assurances that the subject has the constant and unfailing attention of Her Majesty's Government.

MR. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT asked the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether his attention has been called to the important letter from The Times Correspondent with Sir Peter Lumsden's Mission in Afghanistan, which appeared in that paper on the 3rd March, and especially to the following extracts:"I have pointed out the great strategical importance of Pul-i-Khatun, a place which has always been considered Afghan, and beyond the pale of discussion. Another important position is Penjdeh, in the valley of the Murghab. Its inhabitants have always been subject to Af-me, and I was not cognizant of it. I ghanistan, and it is occupied by an Afghan garrison. Russia does not desire the definition of the Afghan frontier, for it will put an end to her successful system of stealthy encroachment. Three years ago the nearest Russian outposts on the road from the Caspian were at Krasnovodsk and Chikishlar, 700 miles from Herat; now they are at Pul-i-Khatun, only 150 miles from Herat. Three years ago the nearest Russian outposts on the road from the Oxus and Merv were at Katra Kurghan, say 500 miles from Herat ; now they are at Tolatan, 140 miles from Herat. Nearly all this progress has been made by unopposed encroachments since we evacuated Kandahar; whether it is true that the Russian troops have occupied Zulfagar, 40 miles south of Pul-i-Khatun, Ak-Rabat, and Penjdeh (all four places being on Afghan territory); whether any further advance has been recently made beyond these places, where Sir Peter Lumsden's force now is stationed; and, whether he can now, consistently with the public interest, state that Her Majesty's Ministers intend to protect the absolute integrity of all Afghan territory, including these important positions, from Russian occu

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NAVY-STATE OF THE NAVY-NOTICE
OF MOTION (SIR EDWARD J. REED).

SIR EDWARD J. REED asked the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether, in view of the anxiety which is felt respecting the present state of the Navy, he will afford me facilities for making the Motion which stands in my name, and for taking the sense of the House upon it?

MR. GLADSTONE: In answer to my hon. Friend, I may state that I

it seems to me that we have some claim to bring before the House the views which, after care and consideration, we hold on this subject. I should have thought · [Cries of "Order!" and

THE WEST INDIA ISLANDS-RECI

PROCITY TREATY WITH THE

UNITED STATES.

think he is under a misapprehension as to the Rules with respect to Motions made in this House in the nature of Votes of Censure. It is certainly the established practice of the House-and I hope it will continue to be the estab-"Hear, hear!"]-that the Admiralty lished practice that when Notice of a itself would have been glad to have had Vote of Censure is given in the House this matter discussed. [Renewed cries of by some person who is entitled to ex- "Order!" and "Hear, hear!" I beg press the opinion of some very large to give Notice that on Monday next Ï portion of the House, and is responsible shall ask the Prime Minister whether for making himself the organ of that he will be prepared to give me an evenopinion-in such cases, undoubtedly, it is ing after Easter? the established practice to put aside the course of Business for the purpose of entertaining such a Vote of Censure. I do not in the least mean to say that these are the only Votes of Censure that MR. E. STANHOPE asked the First ought to be moved; but I only mean to Lord of the Treasury, Whether the offers say that there is no justification for inter- of the Government of the United States fering with the course of Business when to negotiate a Convention with the West the Vote of Censure proceeds from an India Islands have been rejected by Her individual Member on his own respon- Majesty's Government; and, if he will sibility. At the present moment I could lay upon the Table the Despatch from not do anything-independently of what the Government of the United States I have just stated-in derogation of the offering to open negotiations for a reciprecedence that has been given to the procity Treaty, and the Correspondence Parliamentary Elections (Redistribution) which has since taken place on the subBill. But having thus far given an ject between the Foreign Office, the Coanswer to my hon. Friend, I beg helonial Office, the Board of Trade, and the will not suppose that I am desirous to interests concerned? see the discussion of his Motion postponed. I should be very glad to see it brought on speedily; and, by way of giving him some small assistance, I wish to refer him to the answer given the other day by my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow (Dr. Cameron). When my hon. Friend behind me appealed to the hon. Member for Glasgow and requested him to give him precedence for his Motion, the hon. Member for Glasgow replied that probably my hon. Friend would be able to get precedence from me. Now, Sir, as I have had the opportunity of dispelling that idea on the part of the hon. Member for Glasgow, and as it is not in my power to give precedence to my hon. Friend, the hon. Member will now understand that the reason given for his refusal is entirely removed, and possibly he will now make way for my hon. Friend.

SIR EDWARD J. REED: Will the Prime Minister allow me to ask him another Question on this subject? The terms of my Motion are not in the form of a Vote of Censure on the Government, but only of a Vote of Censure on a Department of the Administration; and Mr. Gladstone

LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE: Her Majesty's Government have not been able to accept the draft of the Convention proposed by the late United States Government; and Lord Granville is now in communication with Her Majesty's Minister at Washington with respect to the publication of the Diplomatic Correspondence. The question of the publication of the Papers referred to by my hon. Friend must stand over until the course to be taken with regard to the Correspondence with the United States is settled.

NEW GUINEA-OCCUPATION

OF NORTHERN COAST BY GERMANY.

SIR WILLIAM M'ARTHUR asked

the First of the Treasury, If the statement in The Pall Mall Gazette of Monday the 9th inst. is correct, viz. :—

"That Her Majesty's Government has surrendered Huon Bay in New Guinea to the German Government, and that the line of demarcation between England and Germany in New Guinea will be latitude 8 south of the equator ?"

MR. GLADSTONE: The case stands thus:-There was a claim or desire on

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