then took a view of the attempt to enforce more rigid discipline on the volunteer corps. He contended there was no power of doing so. He spoke of discipline in minute things, which was injudiciously attempted. In the first instance, perhaps, a general plan might have been established, for all the volunteer corps. But now each must be chiefly governed in its own manner. The number of days of drill, for instance, must vary, according to the occupation of the men, and the season of the year. In harvest time, volunteers in the country could not attend to drill. It was impossible; and it was not policy to expect it, if practicable. If the enemy was actually in the country, all occupation must cease in the seat of the invasion, but that of actual war.

But in a state of preparation, the ordinary occupations of labouring men must go on. During a certain part of the year, there was no drill in his corps; but that was brought up by more close application to the drill at other times. There must be, in this and many other respects, a great latitude for the volunteer corps. He was

glad there were now 26 days' pay, for exercise, to be allowed the men. Four days, beyond twenty, had been warmly contended for in vain; but now six were generously given; yet, he could not but observe that this was done without the authority of Parlia ment. It was done on the mere order of his Majesty's confidential servants. He noticed this for the presumption with which it was done; however, he was obliged to them for it. The times for a complaint against his Majesty's servants, for such unconstitutional conduct, were unhappily past, and he should not comment on that,-It would have been unreasonable to have demanded of ministers, that all the minute parts of the volunteer system should be at once perfect: but he expected to have seen, and all the country expected to have seen, a grand machine, effecting its original purpose, and going on without difficulty, as to all its great movements. But what is the case? No part of the system is free from embarrassment; no part is understood; all is confusion. He really did not believe that ministers, at that very time, understood either what they meant to enforce, or what to abstain from.-Mr. Whitbread then spoke of the imbecility of ministers, in their preparations for war, at its commencement, although they had declared the just jealousy they must have of the armaments in the ports of France, previous to that time. He did not know that the existence of those armaments had ever been proved to the country; but, if they were, what preparations had been made? Ministers talked

like children of the danger, and were as unprepared as children (Mr. Addington said accross the table, "The Militia") The militia, indeed, had been called out, but he did not expect them to take great credit merely for that measure. When the army of reserve was thought of, a measure so highly extolled; every means that could possibly raise the price of substitutes, and so injure the recruiting service, and produce other mischiefs, were adopted. Among other things an embargo was suddenly laid on vessels going down Channel, which added to the alarm, and made the price of substitutes enormous. The army of reserve has therefore failed. It stands still; its numbers cannot be filled. On the 18th of Jan. there were no less than 90 deficient in one place, of the quota 250. The first mistake

of ministers, when they proposed the army of reserve, was followed by endeavouring to make volunteers a substitute for it, and then granting the volunteers exemption from the. army of reserve, &c. thus, destroying the whole recruiting resources of the country. -Mr. Whitbread then observed, that almost every volunteer corps had committees, which he declared it impossible to prevent. He then touched again on the subject of economy, and the precariousness of the sub, scriptions to maintain the volunteer corps; recommending government at once to meet the expenses of those corps by a parliamentary provision. He earnestly recommended an impartial examination of the real strength of the volunteer corps. He did not believe that it amounted to what was stated, 380,000. And, if that, how much was disciplined, and able to take the field? How many able to march 100 miles from home? He contended that a regular army, to a very large extent, and more economical, might have been raised. In concluding, he reprobated the raising the spirit of the country by bru tal and ferocious prints. Foreign invasion was enough to kindle an Englishman's valour, whether it was by the Demi-God of the Thuilleries, or the Devil Incarnate of the Printsellers in Piccadilly. Henry IV or Bonaparte were to be dreaded alike as Invaders. Ministers continued to act without any plan or system whatever.

Mr. Tierney explained the circumstances which had occured in the Southwark corps. He said, that himself and his hon. friend (Mr. Whitbread) were in similar situations in many respects; they were both colonels, both had corps composed of their constituents, and both might be supposed desirous to stand well with them. The fact was, that one of the companies came to a resolution, declar

ing that they would not serve unless under an officer of their own choosing. Against this proceeding, however desirous to preserve the good will of his constituents, he found himself obliged, in his military character, to protest; and he should have been wanting in his duty to the King, if he had suffered men insisting on such a principle to continue with arms in their hands. In consequence of this affair, another of the companies adhered to the company reduced; but eight out of ten of which the corps consisted never made any pretension to the right claimed by the other two. And now one of those companies had again come forward to serve under the principle which he had held out to them; and twenty-seven of fifty of the other company had petitioned to be allowed to serve in the same manner. This was the whole extent of the affair alluded to by his honourable friend; and he did not see that it had either produced or threatened those disa.greeable consequences which had been suggested.

Mr. Fox said, that it was not his intention to go at length into this question at present, there were a few points only on which he begged leave to touch; particularly as being in the nature of remarks on what had passed in the debate, they could not so well be brought forward on a future occasion. The right honourable gentleman under the galle ry (Mr. Pitt) had alluded to the conduct of the admiralty; on that subject he was not at present prepared to give any opinion. He confessed that he was partial to the noble lord at the head of that department, he admired his professional talents, and gratefully acknowledged his public services. Lord St. Vincent had all his good wishes, and on this account he most heartily wished him a better defender than Lord Castlereagh. That noble lord had defended the first lord of the admiralty, by a comparison with what had been done by former naval administrations. talked of the navy in 1755, when in fact, the scale of naval force then was no more a standard of naval force now, than that of 1755 was to be measured by the navies of antiquity. The question was not, what the naval strength of this country in any former war was, but what were the means, and what were the necessities of service, by which our exertions were to be regulated. It was not by referring to dates, and by summing up statements, that the first lord of the admiralty could be justified, nor was it on that ground, he was sure, that Lord St. Vincent would chuse to rest his defence. He did not know where, or in what register, the noble lord might have found the arguments VOL. V.

He

he had used, but precisely the same mode of defence was adopted by the admiralty in the American war, when for two years our na vy had been inferior to that of France. It had been said on the ministerial side, that many of the arguments had been used be-. fore; it would have been better if it could have been said that they were answered before. Whenever it was commended that the exertions for the public defence in every department were inadequate, ministers thought it was enough if they had done as much within the first year of war as had ever been done before. But could they be allowed to date their preparations only from March last? He would not say whether those who believ ed the peace was likely tolast were "nature's fools" or not, but ministers had persuaded some that the peace was solid, though they themselves had since repeatedly declared that, from the moment of its conclusion, the conduct of the French governmant was but one system of aggression. In that case, therefore, they ought to have been prepared to put an end to what they now hold out as a hollow truce, at the most favourable moment, and a pretty moment they did chuse. If it be true that, ever since the peace, the French government had never ceased from insult and aggression, ministers ought to have been in a state of preparation adequate to what the natural result of such a situation required; and instead of being the first year of the war, it ought to be considered, in regard of the state of preparation in which we ought to have been, as the third. With respect to the bill itself, he could not help taking notice of the extraordinary assertions of ministers, that it was their intention from the beginning that volunteers should have liberty to resign; they thought any other system pernicious. Yet had they taken the attorney general's opinion, which declared that volunteers could not resign. This opinion was circulated with great profusion, and recommended to magistrates as the rule of their decision. Yet all this time ministers had intended to give the power of resignation, they thought the contrary principle pernicious in the highest degree, and they now say that they would have proposed to give liberty to resign if the law had refused. Th's surely was a contradiction; and unless they had so gravely asserted that they always intended to allow the power of resignation, he should have inferred that they approved the attorney general's opinion, and that they had, from the first, intended the law as he had declared it. He should have been inclined to believe that the conduct of men disapproving of the opinion and of the law would,

* M

in circulating it, have annnounced to the lords lieutenants, that it did not meet their intentions, that they intended to move for an alteration of the law, while in the mean time they would have instructed commanders of corps to permit resignation to take place. But nothing of this had they done, when Parliament met in November; nay, after bringing in another bill on the subject of the volunteers, no mention whatever was made of altering a law, the consequences of which are admitted to have been so pernicious to the volunteer system! Nay, since the attorney general's opinion had been given, it had actually been proposed in another House to clear up the point by law, when one of the secretaries of state declared, that that opinion was a sufficient rule for magistrates. In a word, on this point, he must have concluded from the conduct of ministers, that they fully approved the law as interpreted by the attorney general, and nothing but their grave declaration prevented him from thinking so still. As to general measures of defence, it was not his intention to follow the example of Mr. Pitt in proposing any; and, in truth, one reason was, that the House was so little inclined to adopt his suggestions, and he was afraid that even Mr. Pitt was not likely to be more successful; unless, perhaps, there was some odour of office still about him which might have its influence. He believed, however, that Mr. Pitt had not much greater prospect of seeing his plans adopted by the ministers than he himself had. He thought it better, therefore, to stick to the bill before, the House, whatever were its defects, particularly as it was now the conviction of all, except ministers themselves, that the country was not in that state of defence which, from the immense means confided to ministers, it ought to have been in. And upon the volunteer system, therefore, we were forced to place a good deal of dependence. It was rather singular, however, that after the volunteer system had existed above seven months, it should be necessary to begin to make new regulations about attendance, silence in the ranks, &c. &c., and yet the system itself was resorted to on the ground of immediate danger. It was now said, that the danger was immediate, and if it was likely to arrive in four or five weeks, it was betto have the volunteers several times every week, than to purpose to extend the number of drills every week. But with regard to the permanence of the system, it might be proper to adopt another course. It might be necessary to give up some of the perfection which more frequent attendance would bestow, least the volunteers should be so ha

rassed, that they might be induced to abandon the service altogether. As to the right of election he did not see that much was to be done. It might, as had been said, be left to the good sense of the people. But the conduct of ministers in menacing those that should not accommodate themselves to the wishes of government, was calculated to lay the foundation of much dissatisfaction. He hoped, however, that the volunteers would not be bullied out of their determination to defend the country. It was curious that ministers accused those on the opposition side of the House, of attacking the volunteers, and arrogated the merit of defending them. The fact was, however, that he and his honourable friends, said merely that the volunteers never could be rendered so good as regular troops, while ministers, who affected to defend, were they who levied fines upon the volunteers, and threatened to, disband them if they insisted on what at the beginning was conceived to be their right.-Mr. Fox concluded with stating, that a period would soon arrive in which it would be the duty of Parliament to enter into a general enquiry into the state of public defence, which was neither adequate to the means with which ministers had been entrusted, nor to what our situation required.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he should trouble the House, at that late period ef the night, with a very few observations. The comparison made by his noble friend, respecting the noble lord at the head of the admiraltry, was only between the first year of the late, and the first year of the present war; between the amount of the naval force in 1793 and 1803, and no farther. At the commencement of the present war, we had raised 40,000 seamen. As to marines, there were difficulties in raising them, that grew out of the means adopted for the defence of the kingdom. He admitted that species of force had gone on with languor, and that no landsmen had been raised. The number of sailors were therefore unusually great, and of landsmen unusually small; but notwithstanding these difficulties, he contended the exertions of the present were equal to those of former boards of admiralty; and if they were equal to those of the board of admiralty, in the last war, he should ask no other praise for them. With respect to the right of resignation by volunteers, he denied that he had ever said that it did not attach to them. Had he been asked the question, he should have said, that the fact was, the question had never occurred to him; if it had, he should have said the right of resignation was the very essence of the volunteer system. The hon.

gent. (Mr. Fox) had adverted to the silence of ministers upon the subject at the beginning of the session; but by doing so, he did not seem to be aware, that a bill relating to volunteers had been introduced, and underwent very much discussion. He was astonished, therefore, that those who expressed so much anxiety now, had not availed themselves of the opportunity of such bill, to have had the point settled. The object of the bill to which he alluded, was to relieve those who were deprived of the exemptions, which they merited, on account of some informality, or circumstance, which attached no blame to them; such as their not being exercised with arms, not being in possession of any, &c. Those gentlemen, therefore, who did not upon that occasion press for an explanation of the point in question, were accomplices with the government, of whose omission they complained. He said, that the state of the country was such as it ought to be, and wished the charge of insufficiency or neglect should be made specifically, as he should be happy to join issue, and meet it fairly. Ministers, he admitted, were incapable, if they had not made every disposition for defence, to which their means were adequate, and which were honourable to the public feeling and spirit. He ackowledged this, but he hoped, at the same time, that they had not the demerit of having failed in carrying into effect all those means which had been placed in their hands. None but those who had a propensity to view with disfavour the conduct of government, would be of a contrary opinion. Our regular force spread over the world, considerably exceeded that of any former period, and our effective force was not more than 17,000 men less than at the highest amount during the late war. The objections made to the bill were few, and ministers were ready to listen to any suggestions to improve it, and obviate that few. The hon. gent. did him an injustice to suppose that his suggestions would not be attended to. This was an era when all should lend their band in support of the country. He assured the hon. gent. therefore, that he should pay every attention to his advice. He should give, however, no immediate opinion upon any suggestions that had been made. He hoped the bill would be committed on Wednesday, and in the mean time he should consider them with the utmost attention. He hoped there would be no objection to going into the committee on Wednesday, and that the bill should pass through all its stages in the present week; it was necessary that a bill of such import

ance to the country should be no longer delayed.

Mr. Dent hoped, that some better information would would have been given on the exertions of the admiralty, than Steel's Monthly Navy List.

Mr. Grey hoped, that when the House should come to estimate the sufficiency or insufficiency of the measures adopted for the defence of the country, they should not be told to look to a comparison of the present with this or that year, but to the means in the hands of his Majesty's ministers. He was surprized to hear the right hon. gent. rest the defence of the board of admiralty upon the former of these two grounds; and he thought he gave a proof of his candour, when he asserted that the board of admiralty ought to be tried by the state of the country, compared with the means in possession of government, and not by any other rule. The right hon. gent. had apologised for our naval force being lower than it ought to have been, on account of their being few landsmen. He feared, therefore, that the volunteer system was defective, as interfering with our naval defence, which was of paramount importance to the country. Upon the subject of the attorney general's opinion, the right hon. gent. had asked what would have been said of ministers should they have concealed it? To this he should simply answer, that there was no occasion to suffer that opinion to be acted upon to the great hardship and inconvenience of innocent individuals. If ministers thought it wrong, as they now confessed, instead of circulating, they should have remedied. They had an opportunity to do so, for upon the occasion of the bill alluded to, he said it was easy for them to have added a clause to remove that which they now acknowledge to have been a hardship, and contrary to the idea of what the law ought to be. He should not, however, at that late hour, go at length into the question. He hoped, however, that a serious inquiry would be made into the state of our preparations for defence. We had been nearly 12 months at war, but that was not the whole time that must be fairly allowed for preparation. It was admitted that the period. that preceded it, was only a suspicious truce, and consequently requiring means and precautions for the safety of the country. Upon such inquiry he feared our situation, though it might not afford ground for serious alarm and apprehension, would not be found of that strength and security which we had a right to expect.

Captain Markham said, he had heard only

general assertions against the admiralty, but no specific charges. He should be happy to meet any precise charges, and to go into a real inquiry whenever it was thought proper. The low rate of insurance, he thought, was the best proof that the admiralty had done its duty. The bill was then read a second time, and committed for Wednesday.

[IRISH INSURRECTION.]-Sir John Wrottesley rose to give notice, that he should, on Wednesday se'nnight, move for the production of papers respecting the conduct of the Irish government in the late rebellion in that country. Having waived his former notice, it became necessary for him now to renew it. The other orders of the day were then read and disposed of.-Adjourned at four o'clock on Tuesday morning.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Tuesday, February 28.

Counsel was heard in continuation relative to the Irish appeal, Garde v. Burton, viz. M. Romilly, second counsel for the appellant, and the Solicitor General, as leading counsel on the part of the respondent. After which their Lordships postponed the further consideration of the case till to-morrow.The Earl of Londonderry, was sworn and took his seat.-The London Port Bill was brought up from the Commons and read a first time. The Duke of York's Estate Bill, and a few private Bills were presented, and these were severally read a first time.— The bills upon the table were forwarded in their respective stages.-Adjourned till to

presented by a person from the Irish Secretary of State's Office, and ordered to lie on the table.

[IRISH PENSIONS AND SALARIES.]Lord King rose to call the attention of the House to a circumstance which he deemed of great importance, and well worthy the notice of Parliament, He alluded to the practice which prevailed of paying certain officers under the government of Ireland their salaries at par in this part of the United kingdom; of this he spoke in terms of disapprobation, principally as an application of a part of the revenues of Ireland, without the sanction or concur rence of Parliament. He adverted to the very unfavourable state of the exchange against Ireland, which was an additional reason for the proceeding in question being a proper subject of investigation. He also alluded to the bill for continuing the restriction upon the Bank of Ireland then before the other House of Parliament, and intimated, that as he felt it his duty to call the attention of their lordships to that subject, he expressed his hope that it would not be hurried in its progress through that House. The noble lord concluded by moving, That an account be laid before the House of all persons and salaries chargeable on the revenues of Ireland, and paid at par in this country.

The Earl of Limerick shortly expressed his difference in opinion from the noble lod on the subject, and stated, that when the account moved for should come before the House, he had no doubt of being able satisfactorily to justify the proceeding in question to their lordships.

The Earl of Suffolk took the opportunity to express his surprise, that accounts, which he had moved for so long since as two years, should not be yet laid before the House. He alluded to the accounts of the proceeds of old naval stores, the amount of which, in all probability, was very considerable, and the disposition thereof, he contended it was proper it should be known to Parliament.

Lord Hawkesbury expressed his readiness to afford every practicable explanation on the topic touched upon by the noble earl, but he was then uninformed upon the subject; not having had the honour of a seat in that House at the remote period men tioned, he could not tell what steps had been taken in consequence of the noble earl's motion.

The Earl of Suffolk shortly explained, and observed, that there was another noble Secretary of State present with respect