The CHAIRMAN. Isn't that true?

Captain WOOL. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Didn't you have a fuss about it?
Captain WOOL. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Isn't that one of the reasons she left?

Captain WOOL. No, sir; she didn't leave for that. There was a reduction in force put into effect, and ASTAPA was just about to go out of existence.

The CHAIRMAN. Her coming and wanting this particular contract assigned to her and the $15,000 she wanted out of Lev, and the reported $50,000 that you were to get out of it, was all a subject of discussion between you; was it not?

Captain WooL. No, sir; I never discussed anything like that with

her.

The CHAIRMAN. Didn't she complain to you that she wasn't getting her share of the pay-off?

Captain WOOL. No, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Sir?
Captain WooL. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Mr. KENNEDY. Captain Wool, I would like to now discuss with you about where this $16,000 that you had in your box in May of 1953 came from. I would like to get into that. That is your testimony, that you had approximately $16,000 in your box at home during May of 1953?

Captain WOOL. Well, as I mentioned, I wasn't sure how much we had all told. I know I had about $16,000. How much was in there at any one time, I couldn't say.

Mr. KENNEDY. You testified prior to this time that it was approximately $16,000. Do you want to change that testimony?

Captain WOOL. Well, if you will recall, at the time, I remember that question very well, and I said I had no idea, and the question was asked again and again. I said, "All I can assume is that there must have been around $16,000." But whether it was in there-I don't know.

Mr. KENNEDY. Well, we will give an allowance of $1,000 either way. Was there approximately $16,000, would you say, between $15,000 and $17,000 in the box?

Captain WOOL. It is hard to say what was in there at one time. Mr. KENNEDY. You can't tell now, today?

Captain WOOL. In fact, I am certain I told you at that time that I didn't know, but the repeated questioning that I should know-I just tried to assume that it must have been around that.

The CHAIRMAN. You had sold out the business; hadn't you?
Captain WOOL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. After selling out the business, didn't you investigate or give any thought to how much money you had?

Captain WOOL. I very seldom looked in there; no, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You had no interest in your private funds?

Captain WOOL. Sir, I turned over just about everything I had to my wife. In fact, at that time, I was under the impression I was due to go overseas.

Senator ERVIN. And when you undertook to buy a house, you didn't even look into the box to see how much money you had to apply on the purchase price of the house?

Captain WOOL. I knew approximately how much there should have been.

Senator ERVIN. Well, approximately how much was there?

Captain WOOL. Oh, at that time I should have had around 14, 15, 16 thousand dollars.

Mr. KENNEDY. How much, again?

Captain WOOL. Around that figure, 15, 16, somewhere in that neighborhood.

Mr. KENNEDY. And this was a metal box at home, is that right?
Captain WOOL. That is right, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you have any concern, then, about paying off this $5,000 you said you owned Luciano?

Captain WOOL. Yes, sir. In fact, as I said

The CHAIRMAN. Did you try to pay him at that time?

Captain WOOL. Well, as I say, when my wife made arrangements to buy the house, and we mentioned it to Mr. Luciano, I was a little surprised that he said nothing, but said, "Good luck, go ahead and buy it. It is a good buy." Well, I know he is quite a wealthy man, and $5,000 from him, if he were to wait, would not be very much.

The CHAIRMAN. If he were to lose it, it would not be very much? Captain WooL. No, if he were to wait for some time, it wouldn't bother him very much.

The CHAIRMAN. After that, when did you try to pay him?

Captain WOOL. To my knowledge, we hadn't paid it at all.

The CHAIRMAN. Or hadn't discussed it?

Captain WOOL. No. I hadn't discussed it.

The CHAIRMAN. He just let it go? He manifested no interest in collecting it?

Captain WOOL. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And you manifested no interest in paying it? Captain WOOL. I told him it would be paid some time in the future, but when, I couldn't say.

The CHAIRMAN. You told him that?

Captain WOOL. I told him that originally, when I first signed the note about it.

The CHAIRMAN. That was the last time you talked to him about it? Captain Wool. I think so.

The CHAIRMAN. When was that?

Captain WOOL. I imagine that was sometime around April or so, I guess, when we bought the house.

The CHAIRMAN. Captain, you realize this is a pretty strange story you are telling.

Captain WOOL. I understand that, sir; but if you realize the circumstances under which I have been living for the past few years

The CHAIRMAN. I cannot realize the circumstances of your owing a note for $5,000, selling out everything you had, cashing in, and then the man that loaned the money apparently manifesting no interest in it, and you having no concern about paying it. I cannot understand it.

Captain WOOL. There was some other things besides that. I believe I had mentioned that we had rented a house also out in Jersey, nearby.

The owner of the house had come to us early in that year of 1953 and said he had to have the house back, that the place where he was living had to be returned to its owners, and he had sent us a dispossess notice. My wife was pregnant at the time. There was no place we could go. We were running around high and low, trying to find a place.

Mr. KENNEDY. Captain, I would like to go into this with you, as to how we reached the figure of $16,000 in the box. We will have to start at the beginning. Mr. Bellino will mark it up here on the blackboard so we can follow it and make sure it is the same thing.

The CHAIRMAN. While we are getting ready for that, your wife has testified in executive session. Is her physical condition such now that you feel she shouldn't be required to testify in public?

Captain WOOL. I will say she is due to give birth sometime within the next 2 weeks, I believe.

The CHAIRMAN. Then if the committee deferred taking her testimony in public, you would have no objection to her testimony in executive session being made public and a part of the record? Captain WooL. I don't imagine so.

Mr. KENNEDY. Shall we start off, Captain, and you tell us about this money, the source of the money.

The CHAIRMAN. What we want to get, Captain, is your explanation of how you had fifteen, sixteen, or seventeen thousand dollars, whatever it was, in that box, and how you account for it.

Captain WOOL. All right, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You have said that you made a lot of money out of the business. All right, proceed with the box, now, and let's see how you got that much money in the box at home. Help us out all

you can.

Captain WooL. All right, sir. I will try and be as clear as I can on it. There was approximately $4,000 of my own money.

The CHAIRMAN. Put the title "my own money," out there, Mr. Bellino.

Let's talk about that a minute. When was that first put into the box? Captain WOOL. Quite a lot of that had been in the box on and off for a couple of years.

The CHAIRMAN. That had been there for 2 years?

Captain WOOL. A couple of years; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask you, was that money in the box at the time you opened the business?

Captain WooL. Part of it, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What part?

Captain WOOL. I don't know. Maybe $1,500 or $2,000.

The CHAIRMAN. How much money was in there after you opened the business and at the time you were borrowing money?

Captain WOOL. After we opened the business, sir, and I borrowed the money from my uncle and received the loan from the bank, I took back most of the $4,000 and put it into the box.

Mr. KENNEDY. Could we find out where the $4,000 came from, exactly where it came from?

Captain WOOL. Originally it was when I broke up home, I guess it was 1948 or 1947, I forget the year. I sold all the furniture and everything else I had.

Mr. KENNEDY. Go ahead. How much money did you get for the furniture?

Captain WOOL. I got $4,000.

Mr. KENNEDY. You got $4,000 for the furniture and that was in cash?

Captain WOOL. Most of it, yes.

Mr. KENNEDY. It was in cash. We want to straighten that out. You are under oath, you know, Captain Wool, about these things. Captain WOOL. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. Isn't this what you received? (Document handed to witness.)

The CHAIRMAN. We are handing you here a photostatic copy of a check and ask you to identify it and state what it is. Captain WOOL. It is a check for $3,500.

The CHAIRMAN. Who is it from?

Captain WOOL. I can't make out the last name.
The CHAIRMAN. Who did you sell the furniture to?
Captain WooL. I don't remember the name now.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that the check you got for your furniture? Captain WOOL. I don't remember, sir, but I know I got check and cash.

Mr. KENNEDY. There is a check for $3,500. That is the check that you got for the furniture, Captain. If you were paid $4,000 for the furniture, and you were only paid $500 in cash, then you don't have $4,000 in cash. You have a $3,500 check.

Captain WooL. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. Then you don't have $4,000 in cash.

Captain WOOL. Mind you, this was back in 1947 or 1948 when I had this.

Mr. KENNEDY. But you just stated to us that you got paid in cash. Captain WOOL. I said cash and check. I don't remember how much of each.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that photostatic copy there, a copy of the check that was given to you in payment for furniture?

Captain WOOL. That is very possible, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Very possible?

Captain WOOL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Don't you know it is?

Captain WooL. I am not certain, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What would it be given to you for? You would certainly remember that. Where would you get a check at that time for $3,500 on something else?

Captain WOOL. I imagine it was for the sale of the furniture.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you have any other explanation for it?
Captain WooL. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You sold the furniture and got the check?

Captain WOOL. That is right, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Isn't that in payment for it?

Captain WOOL. Part payment.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the date?

Captain WOOL. September 27, 1948.

The CHAIRMAN. That may be made exhibit 42.

(Exhibit No. 42 may be found in the files of the subcommittee.)

Mr. KENNEDY. Didn't you deposit $2,700 in the bank on September 29, 1948?

Captain WooL. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. Where do you get the $4,000 cash?

Captain WOOL. That was 1951, by that time.

Mr. KENNEDY. Captain, you said you got $4,000 from the sale of your furniture. Where did you get the money? You deposited in the bank on September 29, 1948, and you wrote checks against it continuously and took it out gradually.

Captain WOOL. That is right, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. What is your explanation of getting $4,000 from that in cash?

Captain WOOL. You have to remember, sir, in between I was still working and drawing moneys, and I was depositing practically nothing in the bank.

Mr. KENNEDY. Yes?

Captain WOOL. I was just accumulating cash.

Mr. KENNEDY. Then the $4,000 is not from the furniture?

Captain WOOL. That is where it originated.

Mr. KENNEDY. What do you mean, that is where it originated? Captain WOOL. That is where it first started.

Mr. KENNEDY. What started? It is in the bank, not in the box. Captain WOOL. Later it was in the box.

Mr. KENNEDY. How did you get it from the bank to the box? Captain WOOL. As you will see, there are a lot of checks drawn there; I think a lot of them to cash.

Mr. KENNEDY. We have your account here. You claim that these checks that you took out of here were checks for cash that you deposited in your box?

Captain WooL. Some of them, yes.

Mr. KENNEDY. What amount?

Captain WOOL. I don't remember.

The CHAIRMAN. Who testified to this account?

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Bellino.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you been sworn?

Mr. BELLINO. Yes, sir.

TESTIMONY OF CARMINE BELLINO-Resumed

The CHAIRMAN. Just stand there.

Mr. Bellino, I hand you here a document which apparently is a ledger sheet, containing ledger sheets from a bank account. Do you identify it?

Mr. BELLINO. This is the ledger account of Raymond Wool and/or Frances, at the Bensonhurst National Bank in Brookyln, showing the account from September 1948, on this particular sheet, to June 28, 1949.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there other sheets of it?

Mr. BELLINO. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Let's have them all. Do you have other ledger sheets of the same account?

Mr. BELLINO. Yes, sir. These go from December 3, 1947, to September 13, 1948, when the account was transferred to this other sheet