Senator BENDER. No, I am talking about 1952, when you were receiving this money.

Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.

Senator BENDER. Mr. Kennedy had no contact with you in 1952, did he?

Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir. I am sure of that.

Senator BENDER. So he did not ask you not to tell your superiors. Mr. GOLDMAN. This was last week I am talking about.

Senator BENDER. Well, that is understandable.

But at the time, you never contacted your superiors to tell them you were receiving some money?

Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.

Senator BENDER. Did you not consider this money as a bribe?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.

Senator MCCARTHY. Just to clear up the matter of Mr. Kennedy, after he asked you questions and got information from you, he told you not to go out and talk to everyone about the questions he asked you? That is the only advice Mr. Kennedy gave you?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Sir?

Senator MCCARTHY. You said Mr. Kennedy advised you not to advise your superiors.

Mr. GOLDMAN. He told me not to say anything to anybody.

Senator MCCARTHY. In other words, he questions you and said "Do not talk to anybody about this until you appear in public session"? Mr. GOLDMAN. That is right.

Senator MCCARTHY. In other words, he said, "Do not talk to anybody until you appear in public session"?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Well, he didn't say there was going to be a session here.

(At this point, Senator Mundt withdrew from the hearing room.) Mr. KENNEDY. Did you ask me what you should say to your superiors after you appeared down here?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, sir.

how

Mr. KENNEDY. And didn't I say that was completely up to you; ever, if they asked you any questions regarding what we had asked you, that they should contact us directly?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, sir.

Senator BENDER. Do you think the Navy will like you as well as they have since your testimony today that you received this money? (At this point Senator Mundt entered the hearing room.)

Mr. GOLDMAN. Sir, I have worked conscientiously, and they know me for what I have done. I am sure that they would not judge me harshly knowing how strict I am as far as inspection is concerned.

Senator BENDER. Do you think the Navy would think well of you having known that you accepted, even back in 1952-do you think the Navy would appreciate the fact that they had an employee working for them who was accepting-Lawyer, if you want to talk to your client, go ahead.

(The witness confers with his counsel.)

Senator BENDER. Do you think the Navy would appreciate the fact that you had received this money in an envelope, weekly payments, that you had not returned any of it, and, irrespective of the circumstances of your being a Government employee? Do you think they

would appreciate the fact that you had not reported it in the income tax?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Sir, I don't know.

Senator BENDER. You have three rights, either to tell the truth, or to tell the whole story, or you will be guilty of perjury if you do not, or else you can invoke the fifth amendment. I am going to ask some very pertinent questions. You have the right to either perjure yourself or tell the truth.

you

Mr. GOLDMAN. I have told the truth, sir, to every question that was asked of me.

Senator BENDER. So you feel that was a perfectly honorable deal between you and Mr. Rubin?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, sir.

Senator BENDER. Did you receive any other gifts from him?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.

Senator BENDER. Were you taken out to dinner by him at any time?

Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir. Just at one time when I came up there, he was in a hurry to meet someone at the Pennsylvania Station, and he said, "Come down, and we will have a drink at the New Yorker."

We had one drink there, and we were talking over about this job, how soon I might be able to go into this job, and that is all.

Senator BENDER. We have a very alert staff here, and they checked your record pretty thoroughly. With what other contractors do you have this relationship where you were getting money?

Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.

Senator BENDER. Are you sure of that?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Positive, sir.

Senator BENDER. And this $1,200 or so that you received from Mr. Rubin

Mr. GOLDMAN. I don't know how much money there was, sir.
Senator BENDER. You have no idea how much money?

Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.

Senator BENDER. Do you mean you could not remember how much money you got?

Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir; because I immediately spent part of it. Senator BENDER. How about the income tax? You know you are supposed to keep a record for the income tax of money that receive.

Mr. GOLDMAN. I don't think I declared it, sir.

Senator BENDER. I beg your pardon?

Mr. GOLDMAN. I don't think I declared it, sir.

Senator BENDER. You did not declare it?

Mr. GOLDMAN. No.

Senator BENDER. You are sure you did not declare it?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Well, I am not sure, sir.

Senator BENDER. Was that not income?

you

Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, sir. I don't know the tax law on that, sir. Senator BENDER. You are a Government official, and certainly you have some knowledge of the tax law.

Mr. GOLDMAN. I have never worked with tax. I have never went into tax.

Senator BENDER. How do you regard Mr. Rubin now? Do you regard him as a very nice man or a good man?

Mr. GOLDMAN. After this hearing; no, sir.

Senator BENDER. You do not regard him too well now?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Sir?

Senator BENDER. Do you say you do not regard him too well after this hearing?

Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.

Senator BENDER. Do you regard him very well, considering the fact that he said that you were lying, and that his secretary was lying about some relationship?

You agree that you walked into that office week after week and got this envelope, as she testified, as Mr. Samuels. There is no question about that. You knew it was just a front office, it was window dressing for some other operation.

Mr. GOLDMAN. I didn't know it was a front office; no, sir. I didn't know it was a front of anything. It was just that it was his office of the Ansonia.

Senator BENDER. They are not producing anything there. It was just an office.

Mr. GOLDMAN. Well, they were manufacturing in Connecticut. I knew that, sir. That is where the shipments came from.

You see, there are quite a few offices in there. The garment center is right in that section there, and everybody has offices.

Senator BENDER. Do you think the Navy would feel right in continuing you on their staff after these hearings today, after your testimony that you received this money?

Mr. GOLDMAN. I don't know, sir.

Senator BENDER. They certainly will know. There is television, radio, and all these newspaper men here. They will tell them about it. (At this point Senator Mundt withdrew from the hearing room.) Senator BENDER. They will certainly be listening. Maybe they have a Navy official here.

Mr. GOLDMAN. As I say, I didn't take this money as a bribe, but just as an advance on a job.

Senator BENDER. What did you think the money was for?

Mr. GOLDMAN. As an advance on the job that we were talking about.

Senator BENDER. As an advance on a job that you were talking about?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, sir. And I gave them advice

Senator BENDER. That is an interesting arrangement. Do you mean that you could get advances-with whom? What company were you going to work with?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Every week I thought that job was going to be offered to me, the way he expressed himself.

Senator BENDER. What was the company you were to get the job with?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Ansonia, Ansonia Raincoat, Ansonia Garments. Senator BENDER. What connection did he have with Ansonia Raincoat?

Mr. GOLDMAN. He was the whole

Senator BENDER. He was the vice president?

Mr. GOLDMAN. He ran the whole thing.

Senator BENDER. He was the vice president in charge of public relations?

Mr. GOLDMAN. I didn't know what he was at all, sir. He ran everything there. He told everybody.

Senator BENDER. He told everybody just exactly what to do?
Mr. GOLDMAN. That is right, sir.

Senator BENDER. Did he know the raincoat business?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Did he what?

Senator BENDER. Was he familiar with the raincoat business as a manufacturer?

Mr. GOLDMAN. I don't know, sir.

Senator BENDER. You did not know that he had not had a long connection with them?

Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.

Senator BENDER. Or that he was a 33-and-a-third-percenter?

Mr. GOLDMAN. I didn't know that, sir. To me he was a partner. He had an interest in the business there. When he went down to Connecticut, the other two partners were listening to him.

Senator BENDER. Did you ever meet the other two partners?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, sir.

Senator BENDER. What were their names?

Mr. GOLDMAN. I believe one of them was Horowitz, and the other

was

The CHAIRMAN. Friedman?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Friedman, yes, sir.

Senator BENDER. What do they say about what you were doing?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I haven't seen them at all, sir, just that once.
Senator BENDER. Were they nice to you when you met them?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, sir.

Senator BENDER. Did they appreciate your good will and friendship?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Well, for the short time I was there; yes, sir. Senator BENDER. Did you thank them for the envelope that you were receiving from Miss Evelove?

Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.

Senator BENDER. You never thanked them?

Mr. GOLDMAN. I didn't know that they-I didn't thank them at all. Senator BENDER. I see.

You did not feel you needed to? You rendered service and you felt you were entitled to it?

Mr. GOLDMAN. That is right. I figured I was getting a job there with them.

The CHAIRMAN. Any questions, Senator Ervin?

Senator ERVIN. I believe there is something in Psalms (Psalms 15:4) which says blessed is "he that sweareth to his own hurt and changeth not."

I do not believe you quite made that change yet, Mr. Goldman. During this time you were receiving this $50 on Friday from Mr. Rubin, the raincoats manufactured by the Ansonia Co. were being shipped in for inspection, were they not?

(At this point Senator Mundt entered the hearing room.)

Mr. GOLDMAN. That is right, sir.

Senator ERVIN. And during this whole time, those raincoats were being inspected by you and others, is that right?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Not entirely by me.

62915-55-7

Senator ERVIN. In part, were they not?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, sir.

Senator ERVIN. All the time the payments were being made, Mr. Rubin was holding out to you the promise that you would have a job? Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, sir.

Senator ERVIN. You had a conversation with Mr. Kennedy about the whole thing?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, sir.

Senator ERVIN. I will ask you if you did not tell Mr. Kennedy that Mr. Rubin told you that the $50 was so that the garments would be passed.

Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.

Senator ERVIN. You did not say anything like that?

Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.

Senator ERVIN. Was there not a girl taking down what you said to Mr. Kennedy?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, sir.

Senator ERVIN. I will ask you if Mr. Bellino, this gentleman next to me, asked you some questions.

Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, sir.

Senator ERVIN. I will ask you if you were not asked this question [reading]:

Tell about your conversation with Rubin.

and did you answer this [reading]:

When we were talking about the job, he asked me to come down and look at his plant and see what improvements could be made. He said to me, "These shipments are coming through, and, if you want, I will put you on the payroll." He says to me, “And I will put you on the payroll and you have to get these raincoats through without trouble." I told him at the time, "If they are made right, they wouldn't have any trouble."

Did you have that conversation?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, sir; if they were made right there wouldn't be any trouble.

Senator ERVIN. Did you not have all of this conversation?

Mr. GOLDMAN. Sir?

Senator ERVIN. I will ask you if Rubin did not say to you "I will put you on the payroll, and you have got to get these raincoats through without any trouble."

I am asking you if Mr. Rubin did not say that to you. In other words, did you not tell the staff that that is what Mr. Rubin said to you? "I will put you on the payroll and you have got to get these raincoats through without any trouble."

Mr. GOLDMAN. I wouldn't recall that.

Senator ERVIN. You would not deny it, would you?

Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir, I wouldn't deny it.

Senator ERVIN. It is possible?

To refresh your recollection, I will ask you, as a matter of fact, if Mr. Rubin did not say to you, "I will put you on the payroll and you have got to get these raincoats through without any trouble." Mr. GOLDMAN. I may have said that, sir; yes, sir.

Senator ERVIN. And I will ask you if you did not say in reply to Mr. Rubin, when he made that statement, "Well, if they are made right, we won't have any trouble."

Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, sir.