Mr. LEV. But I do know one thing about it. That check has nothing to do that is for plastic which has nothing to do whatsoever as far as the Government is concerned. I do know one thing about it, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask you another question.

Mr. LEV. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. At the time you gave that check for $2,000, what was your bank balance? You didn't have to postdate it to make it good or date it backward or any other way, did you?

Mr. LEV. I would say no.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. So that is out. Then the check, obviously, is dated on the date it is given. Can you think of any reason for dating it any other date?

Mr. LEV. Now, Mr. Chairman, you are trying to connect me in here that I something done a shady deal.

The CHAIRMAN. It is not something that I am trying to connect, sir. It is a case of what the facts are, and the facts will connect with themselves, if I can get the facts and the truth from you.

Mr. LEV. The only one you can get exactly the facts and the truth, as far as the white-hat contract is concerned, is from Colonel Painter. The CHAIRMAN. Colonel Painter was not there discussing it that night.

Mr. LEV. I brought him over.

The CHAIRMAN. That is a later time. Colonel Painter was not there at the Horts that night when you were discussing this invitation to bid.

Mr. LEV. Otherwise, what you are trying to connect is that I knew before, and I definitely deny this here.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, you are denying it.

Mr. LEV. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. But you say you were discussing it, and you have testified that you already had the invitation. The records reveal here that the invitation was not in existence until April 23.

Mr. LEV. But there is one thing I do know. I did not know before any kind of an invitation or anything. Colonel Painter is the one that told me, and that is the only thing I know about it. And I did not know anything in advance. I did not know anything in advance. The CHAIRMAN. Well, you were discussing it in advance, and you said you had the invitation and you were discussing it. It is your testimony, not mine.

Mr. LEV. I am not aware with any dates. I am not aware with any exactly what days.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, you know this, that the check had to be given before it could be deposited; don't you?

Mr. LEV. Of course.

The CHAIRMAN. Of course?

Mr. LEV. Of course; yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I hand you here a photostatic copy of the record of the bank account of Eugene B. Hort, and Mella Hort, which shows that it was deposited on April 10, the next day after it was given.

(Document handed to witness.)

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

The CHAIRMAN. So it could not have been given later and dated back; could it?

Mr. PIERCE. Apparently it is a $2,000 credit. I assume it is the same check. I don't know.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, it shows the bank deposit of $2,000. Of course we have sworn testimony that it was deposited on that date. I am not trying to mislead this witness. I am trying to give him the facts and the record as we have it, for his explanation, if he can make one. Obviously, the check was not dated back. But if it was dated back

Mr. LEV. I know one thing about this here, Mr. Chairman. I know one thing about this here. I never knew anything before any bids went out. If there is anything that has been talked to me about this here, I knew at that time that Colonel Painter called my attention to it from the trade news record. That I am positively sure. Whether we have got already the invitation or not, I would not exactly know. I must correct this here exactly. I have never done it in my last 21 years-20 years, obtained information ahead of time. That is something that is shady, and I do not want never--I would never enter such things of that kind. If I would know about Rubin that he gives me advance information, I would drop him like a hot potato.

The CHAIRMAN. How did Rubin know about the white hat contract?. Mr. Lev. I would not know. I would only know one thing, from the trade news record.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the date of that trade news record? Can you produce it?

Mr. LEV. The one who can actually tell you about this thing in here is Colonel Painter.

The CHAIRMAN. Where is that trade news record published?
Mr. LEV. They have them in here. New York.

The CHAIRMAN. We are going to undertake to get a copy of the issue. We will see to what extent it corroborates your testimony. Mr. LEV. I wish you would.

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will make this invitation to bid which has been identified exhibit No. 79.

(Exhibit No. 79 may be found in the files of the subcommittee.) The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Lev, you never had any intention of going into a deal or a contract with the Horts on the so-called plastic deal; did yon?

Mr. LEV. I certainly did; I had the intention.

The CHAIRMAN. Having that intention, as you are now testifying, you turned the deal down without reading the survey that you paid the $2,000 for, didn't you?

Mr. LEV. I certainly did. I did not read myself. I turned over to Colonel Painter the survey.

The CHAIRMAN. And they brought that survey in there to Chicago, what you call the survey, arriving there about nine something that morning

Mr. LEV. What is it, Saturday?
Mr. KENNEDY. Sunday morning.
Mr. LEV. Sunday morning.

The CHAIRMAN. And you say you turned it down that night? Mr. LEV. That night I told her this, if we are going to "we are going to bid now on the white hats." I did not told her what price

cr what it might be. "If we are going to be successful in getting this. contract, we are not going into the plastic deal.”

The CHAIRMAN. You told her that night. If you didn't get the white-hat contracts, you would go in on it?

Mr. LEV. I would go in on the plastics, yes.

The CHAIRMAN. If you didn't get the white-hat contracts?
Mr. LEV. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. You told her that night?

Mr. LEV. That is what I told her.

The CHAIRMAN. Was it a result of that that later she demanded the $15,000 of you?

Mr. LEV. It was told me about a year after-about a year from now. It was a year, approximately. I would say between 10 and 12 months. Rubin told me about it.

The CHAIRMAN. When you talked to the members of the staff about it, you said about "6 months afterward," didn't you?

Mr. LEV. Six months?

The CHAIRMAN. Didn't you first say 6 months afterward, and now you are stretching it to a year? Didn't you first say 6 months? Mr. LEV. Didn't I first say approximately there?

The CHAIRMAN. Let's see what it is. Here is where it starts:
You didn't call her up-

speaking of Mrs. Hort, I believe.

No, siree, I told him it was blackmail.

You are talking about Rubin, I think. Let me get the connection here.

Well, I was trying to lead up to it to get the connection.

You never told anybody at ASTAPA that she was trying to blackmail you? and your answer:

I didn't have no time. I had to work. You should see me work down in Puerto Rico.

Question. Was she still working for the Government at that time?

Answer. I don't remember. This was 6 months after. I don't know whether she was working for the Government or not.

Question. Six months later she was not working for the Government. How was she going to get $15,000?

Answer. I don't know.

Question. You never talked to her?

Answer. I never talked to her. And when he told me, Rubin, delivered the message, I told her to go to hell.

Mr. LEV. Correct.

The CHAIRMAN. So at that time it was only 6 months?

Mr. Lev. Approximately.

The CHAIRMAN. And now you are saying it is approximately a year? Mr. Lev. Approximately.

The CHAIRMAN. Don't you know, Mr. Lev

Mr. LEV. I am not trying to tell you not the truth, now. I said approximately. Approximately, in my opinion, it could be 8 months, it could be 6 months, it could be so forth.

The CHAIRMAN. Is it not true that she was still working for the Government there in ASTAPA in the same position she had had at the time you received this blackmail threat from her, or this demand for $15,000?

62915-55- -56

Mr. LEV. You could check it up in here. If I said 10 to 12 months

The CHAIRMAN. You didn't say that. You said 6 months.

Mr. LEV. Six months, approximately 6 months, you figure from 6 to 8. All right. So far we are off? Let's get this straightened

out.

The CHAIRMAN. What I am trying to get is, don't you know and do you not remember that at the time she was still working in her position for ASTAPA for the Federal Government, at the time you received the message from Rubin that she wanted $15,000 out of you? Don't you know of your own knowledge that she was still working there at the time?

Mr. LEV. My own knowledge, I would definitely say that she wasn't working at that time in the Government, because the way I have heard the testimony in here you asked me a couple of times, and I know according to that, I get it, that she was not working in the Government. I am sure of that, when she asked me. In fact is, I did not know.

The CHAIRMAN. Were not those demands made in connection, and didn't Rubin so report to you, that she was going to cause you trouble on deviations that you had exercised prior thereto on other contracts, and she had gone back and dug them out of the file?

Mr. LEV. She never threatened me of that kind, and I never discussed with her of that kind.

The CHAIRMAN. Didn't Rubin tell you that?

Mr. LEV. Rubin never told me.

The CHAIRMAN. At the time he related the demand of hers for the $15,000, didn't Rubin explain to you that she had found that you had made deviations in contracts and that she had dug it out of the files on other contracts in the past?

Mr. LEV. He did not tell me that at all.

The CHAIRMAN. Rubin did not tell you that?

Mr. LEV. Definitely not.

The CHAIRMAN. Were you not interested in knowing why she was demanding $15,000 of you?

Mr. LEV. That is all I went ahead and told him over there "Why?" and he said to me, "I don't know," and I told her to go plumb to hell. The CHAIRMAN. "Plumb to hell."

Senator BENDER. Under what circumstances did you first meet Mr. Rubin?

Mr. LEV. I explained that. I met him at Mrs. Hort's.

Senator BENDER. Who was present?

Mr. LEV. Mr. Hort.

Senator BENDER. Who else?

Mr. LEV. At first, I met Mr. Hort and her.

Senator BENDER. And who else was there at the time you met Mr. Rubin?

Mr. LEV. That is all. But then, after, Rubin came in.

Senator BENDER. I say, the first time you met at Mrs. Hort's home, who was there? The first time you met Rubin, that is.

Mr. LEV. Who was there?

Senator BENDER. Yes. Who else was there?

Mr. LEV. The only ones who was there is Dr. Hort, he was there, Mrs. Hort, myself, and, of course, his children, at first.

Senator BENDER. Who else?

Mr. LEV. Then she told me, after I discussed with her the plastic deal

Senator BENDER. No, who else was there on that occasion?
Mr. LEV. Nobody else. Then, after, Rubin came in.

Senator BENDER. Isn't it true that Captain Wool was there, too?
Mr. LEV. No, sir. I definitely protest and I deny.

Senator BENDER. Well, now, we have Mrs. Hort's testimony under oath:

They met in my house, as I have said, and they had not known each other before, and suddenly they become bedfellows.

I asked the question what was the relationship between Lev, and Rubin, and Captain Wool.

They met in my house, as I have said, and they had not known each other before, and suddenly they become bedfellows.

Mr. Lev. Let me get the answer on that. I definitely deny. I remember just like it happened yesterday.

Senator BENDER. Captain Wool was not there?

Mr. LEV. Captain Wool was never there. It is definitely a Senator BENDER. Weren't you invited to the party, the Bris party, at Captain Wool's house? Didn't you get an invitation?

Mr. LEV. What kind of invitation?

Senator BENDER. When his child

Mr. LEV. If there was an invitation, it was not called to my attention. But Mrs. Hort definitely lied about such things of that kind as you have in her testimony, definitely. All of this testimony is manufactured against Harry Lev. It is manufactured.

Senator BENDER. Did you not have a celebration when you got that big deal for the Navy hats?

Mr. LEV. Celebration?

Senator BENDER. Yes.

Mr. Lev. I will tell you what kind of celebration I had. I was weighing 220 pounds, and by the time I got finished training the people I weighed 160 pounds. That is what I got out of it. As far as the Navy is concerned, I done a wonderful job. As far as the Navy, I done a wonderful job. I believe under the circumstances

Senator BENDER. How many caps were involved in that deal? Mr. LEV. How many caps? 32,000 a day.

Senator BENDER. The whole job.

Mr. LEV. It is about 6,800,000. To me it is a small thing.

Senator BENDER. It is a year's work.

Mr. Lev. It is a year's work, so what does it mean.

You are in a

department store, a merchandise man, you know one man doesn't mean a heck of a lot.

Senator BENDER. Six million caps at $2.50 apiece?

Mr. LEV. $2.50? 29.9 cents. That is all there, 29.9. Otherwise, it

is 0.1 cent less than 30 cents.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will stand in recess until 2:30. (Whereupon, at 12: 40 p. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene at 2:30 p.m., the same day.)

(Members present at the taking of the recess: The chairman and Senator Bender.)