clergy of his diocese. He had, indeed, good reason to know that persons who differed from his right rev. Friend materially had found in him a kind adviser; while the respect in which he was personally held in his diocese, owing to the deep religious tone of his life, was, he believed, as great as was ever paid to any Prelate in the present or former times. Petitions ordered to lie on the table.

House adjourned at a quarter past Six o'clock, to Monday next, a quarter before Five o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

to the good feeling and good sense of the clergy throughout the country for the attainment of that object than to the other means which had been suggested. He must express it to be his belief that it would be well if our Ecclesiastical Courts were placed on a footing of greater harmony with the spirit of the other Courts of the kingdom. It had in former times been urged that it was desirable that proceedings in the Civil Courts should be cumbrous and expensive, inasmuch as a check would by that means be placed upon litigation; but upon that point public opinion had since undergone a complete change, and it was now universally held that if the majesty of justice was to be maintained that object could most effectually be gained by having causes tried before a tribunal which was at once cheap and good. He might further observe that it was not the framework of our Ecclesiastical Courts that stood in need of any considerable alteration. What was quired was that a more simple mode of procedure should be established in them, and he, for one, could never understand why rules should not be laid down for the transaction of the business in those Courts such CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY OF IRELAND. as the Judges of the Superior Courts were enabled to lay down for inferior tribunals in civil matters. If such a course were adopted, and rules for the regulation of proceedings were framed by the highest judicial and ecclesiastical authorities, as had to some extent been done already in Ireland, great waste of time would, he thought, be avoided, and much good accomplished, without effecting a revolution or even any great change in the constitution of the Ecclesiastical Courts. He hoped

re

he might be allowed to add a few words on the other subject brought before the House. He differed in many important particulars from his right rev. Friend behind him (the Bishop of Salisbury). While, however, he entertained that difference of opinion, he must admit that his right rev. Friend had taken great pains in the formation of his peculiar views, and it was not likely that he would be induced to change those views even by the forcible eloquence of the noble Lord opposite. He understood, indeed, the right rev. Prelate to say that, having formed them maturely, he intended to persevere in holding them; but there was little doubt that he would also persevere in that course which he had hitherto pursued, of dealing with perfect fairness and impartiality with all the

Friday, November 22, 1867. MINUTES.]-SELECT COMMITTEE-On Public Petitions appointed.

PUBLIC BILLS-Ordered-Libel; Drainage and Improvement of Lands (Ireland) Supplemental.* First Reading-Libel* [3]; Drainage and Improvement of Lands (Ireland) Supplemental * [4].

QUESTION.

MR. MAGUIRE asked the Chief Secre

tary for Ireland, What course the Government intend to adopt with reference to

granting a Charter for the Catholic University of Ireland?

THE EARL OF MAYO said, the important land was at present engaging the most question of University Education in Ireanxious attention of the Government, and ordinary time he should be able to state he hoped that when Parliament met at the the intentions of the Government on the subject.

BREECH LOADING RIFLES for the

ARMY.-QUESTION.

LORD ELCHO asked the Secretary of State for War, Whether the decision of the Committee composed of Officers of the Regular Army and of Civilians, which was appointed to consider and report upon the various arms submitted for trial, in accordance with the terms of the War Office advertisement issued in October last, by which "gunmakers and others" were invited to propose breech-loading rifles which may replace the present service rifles in future manufacture," will be considered final; if not, what are the

grounds for not accepting as final the de- | Committee was invited "to report upon cision of a Committee which was invited the best breech-loading rifle for use in the "to report upon the best breech-loading army." These words are not to be found rifle for use in the Army;" and, to what in any public paper. They may have been further inquiry will these arms be sub-contained in a letter from my right hon. mitted, by whom will it be conducted, and gallant Friend. My noble Friend and within what period of time may it be goes on to ask, "To what further inquiry expected that a final decision will come will these arms be submitted ?" The arms to as to the future service rifle ? the Committee have sat on will not be submitted to any further inquiry. The question then arises with reference to the course the Committee is to take with regard to the large number that were not properly admissible; and it may be desirable to have an inquiry as to those seventy weapons, many of which may be of a very valuable character, though they do not comply with the terms of the advertisement. Consequently, I have sought for information in the Office as to what were the precise intentions of my right hon. and gallant Friend, and I find the belief there to be that he intended to have the duty of the Committee confined to deciding as to what arms ought to receive the prizes. Then comes the question how this matter is to be decided. The gentlemen composing the Committee having already sacrificed a great deal of time to an inquiry which turned out to be very laborious, I could not assume that they would be willing to embark in another investigation, or that, in the case of the military officers, the Commander-in-Chief would be willing that they should do so. I believe the present inquiry will not be concluded for some time, and, no doubt, the other would also last a very considerable period. If, however, the gentlemen composing the Committee should be willing to embark in it, and the Commander-in-Chief should give his consent, I believe I could not act with greater advantage to the public service than by committing such an inquiry to gentlemen to whom the Government and the country are already so much indebted. In that case their decision cannot be arrived at in less than a year.

SIR JOHN PKAINGTON: The Question my noble Friend has put to me is rather a complicated one, but I will answer it as clearly as I can. The Question refers in the first instance to the Committee which was decided on by my right hon. and gallant predecessor (General Peel) shortly before he left office, to determine a competition between breech-loading rifles, which were to be sent in on the terms contained in an advertisement. My right hon. and gallant Friend offered a considerable sum of money by way of prizes for the best of those arms. The Committee of adjudication is composed of five gentlemen two civilians, Lord Spencer and Mr. Ross, and three military officers-Colonel Fletcher, of the Guards; Captain Rawlins, of the 43rd; and Captain M'Kinnon, of the 23rd Regiment. Colonel Fletcher was the President. My noble Friend asks me whether the decision of that Committee is to be considered as final. Now, the decision of the Committee as regards the prizes to be given cannot be considered as final in respect of the arm to be adopted, for reasons which I will explain. No doubt, at the time my right hon. and gallant Friend determined on appointing the Committee he hoped that its decision would be final, and that the arm which received the first prize would be finally selected as the permanent arm for the British service. I should observe that I find no record in the War Office of what the direct intentions of my right hon. and gallant Friend were; but I imagine that what subsequently occurred was not foreseen by him or anybody else—namely, that nearly 100 arms were sent in for this competition. Out of that number the great majority, or nearly seventy I think, did not comply with the conditions of the ad vertisement, and consequently the competition for the prizes was limited to a small minority of the arms sent in. The question then arises what course ought the Committee to take in reference to those weapons which are not in conformity with the terms of the advertisement? My noble Friend implies in his Question that the

MR. NEWDEGATE asked the right hon. Baronet whether he would have any objection to lay on the table a Return of the number of muskets which had been converted into breech-loaders, and also the number of Enfields available for conversion?

SIR JOHN PAKINGTON believed that such a Return had already been laid on the table; but if not, there would be no objection to producing one.

STORM WARNINGS.-QUESTION. COLONEL SYKES asked the Vice President of the Board of Trade, Whether any further Correspondence on the subject of Storm Warnings with the Scientific Committee of the Royal Society will be presented to the House, and whether they will be resumed?

MR. STEPHEN CAVE: There have been frequent communications on the subject of Storm Warnings during the Recess between the Meteorological Committee of the Royal Society and the Board of Trade. I hope to lay the final arrangements on the table of the House on Monday next. I had therefore better defer answering that part of the Question referring to the resumption of the warnings until after that day.

between the War Office and the Foreign Office, and between the Foreign Office and the British Consul at Barcelona. It was not completed, and he was not at present in a position to say whether or not there was any objection to its production.

SUPPLY.

Order of the Day, for a Committee on Motion for Supply, read.

STATE OF HONDURAS-TREATY OF

GUARANTEE.-QUESTION.

MR. AYRTON said, that before the Speaker left the Chair he was anxious to obtain from the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs some explanation respectstorming a document issued a few days ago in the City of London by Senor Don Carlos Gutierrez, Honduras Minister in London, inviting Her Majesty's subjects to subscribe to a loan of £1,000,000 to the State of Honduras, it being alleged that a portion of such loan was to be applied to the construction of an inter-oceanic railway from Puerto Caballos, on the Atlantic, to the Bay of Fonseca, on the Pacific. The prospectus in question stated that this railway would, when complete, be about 230 miles in length, but that the present loan is to be applied to the construction of the first section of the railway, from Puerto Caballos to Santiago, a distance, he believed, of about forty miles. Moreover, the prospectus contained the following announcement:

THE REGENT'S PARK-THE ORNAMENTAL WATER.-QUESTION. MR. THOMAS CHAMBERS said, that much apprehension was felt by residents in the neighbourhood of the Regent's Park, as to what was being done there in respect of the Ornamental Water. He wished to ask the noble Lord the First Commissioner of Works for some explanation on the matter, and as to the nature of the alteration which is proposed.

LORD JOHN MANNERS: There is no ground for the anxiety referred to by the hon. and learned Gentleman. What is proposed to be done is this: - The water will be drained off; the mud will be drained and covered with soil that has already been accumulated there for the purpose; it will then be concreted, and the whole length of the lake will be reduced to a uniform depth of about four feet. By that means we hope to prevent a recurrence of the awful calamity of last winter.

"The new Treaty between Honduras and Great Britain declares that ' In order to secure the construction and permanence of the route or road herein contemplated, and also to secure for the benefit of mankind the uninterrupted advantages of such communication from sea to sea, Her Britannic Majesty recognises the rights of sovereignty and property of Honduras, in and over the line of the said road, and for the same reason guarantees positively and efficaciously the entire neutrality of the same; and when the proposed road shall have been completed Her Britannic Majesty equally engages, in conjunction with the Republic of Honduras, to protect the same from interruption, seizure, or unjust confiscation, from whatsoever quarter the attempt may proceed.'" Now, if such a treaty had really been entered into by Her Majesty's Government, it would involve this country in very serious responsibilities; for though the prospectus only spoke of the raising of £1,000,000, yet if that sum were to be applied to the construction of only forty miles of the line, it might be inferred that the cost of the whole 230 miles would be

immense. Indeed, he believed that this tween Her Majesty's Government and the section was the only portion of the line State of Honduras, and whether anywhich could be constructed at a moderate thing of the sort were contemplated? He expense, as there was a large range of trusted that the noble Lord would not hills running through the State of Hon- be so inconsiderate as to pledge the credit duras which would render the construction of this country alone to a guarantee of of the other sections an undertaking of neutrality in reference to anything conmuch difficulty. If, however, the line nected with Central America. Such a could be constructed at a moderate expense, proceeding might grievously offend the it would seem that for that ostensible sensibilities of a great nation nearer to object a large loan was to be obtained in Central America than ourselves, and might this country, and the character and credit provoke antagonism and opposition on the of the whole transaction supported by a part of other great commercial nations and Minister accredited to Her Majesty's Go- maritime Powers. If any step were taken vernment, quoting a new treaty alleged to at all it should be in conjunction with all have been entered into. Persons reading the great maritime Powers of the world. the prospectus would naturally believe that Care should be likewise taken that a prothe scheme had been communicated to per route should be selected; for every the noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign two or three years the public were inAffairs, and that he had concurred, or formed that a beautiful route from ocean tacitly acquiesced in it. A treaty seriously to ocean had been discovered, and that a affecting the finances of this country ought line could be constructed at a very trifling to be laid upon the table of that House, expense. Several years ago Her Majesty's and it was even doubtful whether it could Government had acted upon the faith of a be carried into effect without the sanction representation that a man had been to a of an Act of Parliament. It was possible, certain point in Central America, and had however, that this Minister might be draw-stood on a hill from which he could see ing more upon his imagination than upon the Atlantic, and that, after walking a his diplomatic relations with the noble Lord, for he had discovered that a treaty was entered into between Her Majesty's Government and the State of Honduras as long ago as the year 1856, for guaranteeing certain rights and privileges to the Honduras Oceanic Railway Company. But that treaty had sole reference to a project brought forward by that Company, and only guaranteed the immunities he had just referred to on conditions that the railway should be completed from sea to sea by that Company, and that the Company should in exchange concede certain rights and privileges to British subjects. He believed that the Company did not succeed in its undertaking, and therefore that treaty had fallen practically to the ground. At all events, it could have no effect unless the Company carried out the whole line, and gave effect to the stipulations. There was obviously an immense difference between an independent Company engaging to construct the whole line and the Honduras Government taking the matter into its own hands, because the Company furnished in itself a guarantee for a certain amount of neutrality; whereas if the railway were made by the State there would be no such guarantee. He would therefore ask the noble Lord whether any treaty had been recently concluded be

little way into a wood, he came to a place whence he could see the Pacific. A commission was sent out to verify the accuracy of this story, and they ascertained that the man, after gazing on the Atlantic, took a walk through a wood, and, turning in the direction of the spot he had formerly occupied, of course he saw the Atlantic again. Indeed, it was discovered that there was an impassable range of mountains between that spot and the Pacific. Several Englishmen unfortunately lost their lives in detecting that absurdity. He hoped, therefore, that nothing would be done in Central America until the best route was chosen by practical men. If the statements in the prospectus were correct, he should like to receive some information as to the resources of Honduras, its income and expenditure, and the value of the exports of wood referred to in the prospectus. He would add that he had no personal interest whatever in the loan, and that he had merely brought the matter forward in the interest of the public. He begged to ask the Secretary of State, Whether any new Treaty of Guarantee has been entered into with the States of Honduras, and what are the resources of that State?

LORD STANLEY: The answer which I have to give to the fair and opportune Question of the hon. and learned Gentle

QUESTION.

man will be extremely short, and I hope ARRESTS OF ENGLISHMEN IN FRANCE. the House will consider it satisfactory. No new treaty or guarantee has been entered into with the State of Honduras, and as far as I am concerned there is no intention of concluding any such treaty. It is, I think, quite evident that the treaty referred to in the document which has been quoted by the hon. and learned Gentleman is the Treaty of the 27th August, 1856. I do not understand how that can be termed a new treaty; and I notice that in the document referred to by the hon. and learned Member no mention is made of a fact which has a somewhat important bearing on the obligations involved in that guarantee. The additional Article of the Treaty of 1856 stipulates that, in consideration of various concessions therein enumerated

"Her Britannic Majesty recognizes the rights of sovereignty and property of Honduras in and

over the line of the said road,”

namely, the road to be constructed by the Honduras Oceanic Railway Company

"And for the same reason guarantees, positively and efficaciously, the entire neutrality of the same as long as Great Britain shall enjoy the privileges conceded to it in the preceding section of this Article. And when the proposed road shall have been completed, Her Britannic Majesty equally engages, in conjunction with the Republic of Honduras, to protect the same from interruption, seizure, or unjust confiscation, from whatsoever quarter the attempt may proceed.

But then the treaty goes on to say that this protection and guarantee are granted conditionally and may be withdrawn at six months' notice if any regulations be made contrary to the spirit of the treaty. That is the only undertaking into which the British Government has entered, and no new one is contemplated.

Committee on Motion, "That a Supply be granted to Her Majesty."

MR. DARBY GRIFFITH rose to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether, on the 4th day of November, at the Calais Railway Station, a gentleman named Coventry was threatened with arrest by a French policeman for not being provided with a passport; and that, on the English Consul coming to his assistance, he was told by the policeman that he could arrest the Consul himself on suspicion, for not having a passport, if he chose? While England had, in all past time, been noted for her love of personal liberty, it had been rather the fashion with our friends on the other side of the Channel to prefer equality, and to sacrifice personal liberty to it; and this was so, whether under the old Royal dynasty, after the restoration of the Bourbons, or under a Republic, or the former or present Empire. Some few years ago the present Emperor abolished the use of passports in the case of English travellers in France; but if this liberty were to be interfered with arbitrarily the privilege would cease to be an advantage, and would, in fact, be converted into a trap. The other day there appeared in The Times newspaper a statement, signed "H. W. C.," to the effect that the writer was standing at the Calais Station, about to leave by the night train, when he was called on by a porter to interpret for an Italian; immediately after doing which a French detective demanded his passport, and on his replying that a passport was not necessary in the case of an Englishman, the Frenchman said, "You are the very man I have been looking for; you are not an Englishman, but an Italian." The writer, therefore, called the porter who had asked his assistance as interpreter, and who confirmed his statement of what had happened; but

QUEEN'S SPEECH referred; Motion con- the policeman, in a loud voice, and with sidered.

(In the Committee.) QUEEN'S SPEECH read.

Resolved, "That a Supply be granted to Her Majesty."

Resolution to be reported on Monday

next.

ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.

On Motion," That the House, at its rising, do adjourn to Monday next:"

sneers and taunts, said he was a thief and a spy; that the police knew him well, and that he was a prisoner. At this juncture the Vice Consul came forward, and assisted the gentleman in getting out of the clutches of the police, which he did with some difficulty. The writer further said. that the policeman declared not only that he could arrest the gentleman, but that he could arrest the Consul himself, on suspicion, for being without a passport. He (Mr. Darby Griffith) had written to the Vice Consul, who confirmed the statements of Mr. Coventry, especially as to the boast of