to which it seemed to the Poor Law Board | moved for would no doubt prove very imthat the ends of morality and humanity portant documents. In the interesting rewould not be satisfied without a more marks he had made, the noble Earl had public inquiry-an inquiry conducted not not, however, informed their Lordships by the Inspector for the district, but by upon what principle the forty-eight unions an Inspector specially sent by the Board had been selected, but no doubt he would for that purpose, and accompanied by the kindly give them that information. AnoMedical Officer of the Board. He had now ther point of great importance was that placed before their Lordships, as clearly as these Reports would be much more valuhe could, the powers, duties, and responsi- able if they had been submitted to the bilities of the different parties connected respective Boards of Guardians, and their with the management of workhouses, and opinion obtained as to any action to be he had done so in the belief that if defects taken thereon. As to the investigation were brought forward, or abuses discovered, that had taken place at Bedminster, it apit was most important that their Lordships peared that the official Report was not and the public should have an opportu- submitted to the Board of Guardians, and nity of knowing who, under certain cir- as soon as they obtained it through some cumstances, should justly be held respon- other channel, Sir Arthur Elton, the chairsible for their continuance. The Poor man, pronounced the Report to be most Law Board frankly accepted the respon- meagre and unsatisfactory. It was no sibility and duty of making such ad- doubt desirable that the different Boards of ministrative arrangements for the treat- Guardians should have seen the Reports ment of the sick poor under their charge so that Parliament might be made acas might be consistent with the best sani- quainted with their opinions, and might tary knowledge of the day, and most con- know whether they meant to take any ducive to the proper curative treatment of action. He believed that a good deal of the the patients. The Board did not shrink in dissension between the guardians and the any way from any public remarks and com- Poor Law Board had arisen from the chaments that might be made on them-com-racter of modern workhouses not being apments which, when temperately, calmly, judiciously and candidly made, were often very important auxiliaries in the performance of public duty. Having explained the powers of the Board, he would say that it might become necessary to apply in the next Session for increased powers in some respects; and if that were done, he felt confident that the Legislature would not refuse justly and reasonably to strengthen the hands of the Board.

Moved, That there be laid before this House,

preciated; these workhouses were really hospitals, but they had not been conducted according to the known principles of hospital management. The greater part of the inmates were necessarily persons requiring constant medical care, and the guardians were not accustomed to the management of patients who wanted such treatment. And, again, without desiring to cast any reflection upon the Inspectors appointed by the Poor Law Board, he must say that these gentlemen were not always qualified to appreciate the wants of hospital patients, and the principles which should govern a well-regulated hospital. Thus, according to the practice in the best hospitals, at least 1,000 cubic feet of air should be allowed for every sick person, and paid day and night nurses should be employed when required. What they were now about to Copy of the Report of Dr. Edward Smith, dated receive was not a Report of Inspectors, 15th April 1867, and made in pursuance of the but a Report of an Inspector of Inspectors; above-mentioned instructions, after visiting Fortyeight Workhouses situate in various Parts of and therefore it would be interesting to England and Wales; together with the Appendix compare the ordinary Reports of the Into such Report containing the Observations of spectors of these workhouses with the exDr. Smith upon each of the Workhouses in ques-traordinary Report now asked for by the tion.-(The Earl of Devon.)

Copy of a Letter, dated 16th August 1866, and addressed by the Poor Law Board to their Medical Officer, Dr. Edward Smith, instructing him to visit Five or Six Workhouses in each of the Poor Law Inspectors' Districts (not including the Metropolis), and to report upon the Sufficiency of the existing Arrangements for the Care and Treatment of the Sick Poor in such Workhouses

And also,

THE ARCHBISHOP OF YORK thanked the noble Earl (the Earl of Devon) for the statement he had made, and said that he thought that the Reports which he had VOL. CXC. [THIRD SERIES.]

noble Earl at the head of the Poor Law Board. It gave him great gratification to hear that a measure on this subject would be introduced during the present Session-and he had no doubt that every

M

one who took an interest in the subject | liminary step to sending them to the would look forward to that measure with lunatic asylums, than which nothing could the greatest interest and anxiety. be more injurious, if not more fatal, to THE EARL OF CARNARVON said, that those who were mentally afflicted. It aptheir Lordships had doubtless listened, as peared from the last Report of the Poor certainly he had, with great interest and Law Board that out of the 40,000 sick satisfaction to the statement which had persons now maintained in various workbeen made by the noble Earl at the houses throughout the country, no less than head of the Poor Law Board. He agreed 10,000 were said to belong to the insane, with the right rev. Prelate that it was or partially insane classes. So, too, it would worth the attention of the noble Earl be necessary to inquire into the alleged to consider whether it would not be ad- inadequacy of the salaries and of the visable to extend his Motion so that it general powers of the medical officers of should embrace the Reports of the Inspec- the workhouses. These were questions tors, to the production of which he could which had been taken into consideration not see any possible objection. The noble in effecting a reform in the metropolitan Earl had gone into the question of the workhouses, and they would be sure to powers and authority with which the Poor arise in any attempt to reform the provinLaw Board was invested; and it was im- cial institutions. On the other hand, some possible to doubt,, from what had fallen difficulties which existed with regard to from him, that it was his deliberate con- the metropolitan workhouses, would not be viction that those powers and that autho- felt in dealing with those in the provinces. rity were not sufficient. If that opinion Thus, in the provinces, land being often of the noble Earl were correct, and these cheaper than in the metropolis, it would in powers were insufficient to carry out the many places be easy to secure large space ordinary requirements of decency and hu- and ventilation; and he also hoped that manity, Parliament would not hesitate to vested interests would prove less formidable grant such additional powers to the Board in the provinces than they had done in the as would enable them to perform their metropolis. Still, it must not be forgotten duty to the satisfaction of the country. If that the number of provincial workhouses the responsibility of supervising the work was vastly greater than those which had houses was cast upon the Poor Law Board, been dealt with in the metropolis, and that it was only just that they should have suffi- therefore not only must the operations in cient power conferred upon them to enable dealing with the former be upon a much them to discharge themselves of that re- wider scale, but the expense involved sponsibility. It would, of course, be pre- would be far beyond that which had been mature to enter into a discussion of the incurred in improving the latter institutions. reforms to which the noble Earl had re- It had been stated that it would be imposferred, until after the production of the sible to find fit persons to undertake the Report for which his noble Friend moved; supervision of the provincial work houses; but he could not help expressing his gra- but if the right measures were adopted it tification at hearing the noble Earl's pro- would not be difficult to discover a suffimise to give his full attention to this most cient number of well-qualified men in our important subject; and he hoped that the country gentlemen, among whom there observations of the noble Earl were an was an almost inexhaustible fund of exearnest of really well-considered legislative perience and knowledge of local matters, action on the part of Her Majesty's Go- and though it might be a task of greater vernment. He used the phrase "well- difficulty, he did not despair of finding a considered," for no one could doubt for a sufficient supply of similar men in our promoment that the work was one involving vincial towns. In any steps that might be serious difficulties. Many, indeed, of the taken for the reform of these institutions difficulties which last year had beset the he should also be glad to see the co-operareform of the metropolitan work houses tion of private benevolence secured as far as would have to be encountered in endeavour-possible-a co-operation which there was ing to introduce reform into those of the no real difficulty in regulating by, and provinces. It was absolutely necessary subordinating to the necessary discipline that there should be some classification of the inmates, for he believed it was the practice in many parts of the country to send persons to the workhouses as a pre

of every hospital, and which experience had shown to be of the utmost service in those institutions. There was one point upon which the noble Earl had not touched,

houses throughout the country converted into first-rate model hospitals; but he did think it incumbent on Parliament, no matter at what expense or sacrifice, to save them at all events from the scandal of such cases as had recently come to light in two or three parts of the country, and to provide that, while an ample pressure or, even if they pleased, coercion was placed on the able-bodied paupers who would not work, a decent retreat should be afforded to the aged sick and infirm.

LORD HOUGHTON was very glad that the noble Earl had shown that this question of workhouse hospitals had engaged his attention, and was likely to form the subject of future legislation. It was entirely a new question, and altogether separate from the ordinary conditions under which the Poor Law had hitherto been conducted and the poor rates collected. Great care must be taken, for if changes were rashly and inconsiderately made the

but which deserved the most careful consideration on his part. It had been clearly proved in the recent inquiries into the metropolitan work houses that certain combination of professional, technical, or, if they pleased, scientific knowledge was absolutely necessary in those who were intrusted with the inspecting and controlling of these institutions; and it was a matter for the serious consideration of the noble Earl how far he could extend to the provincial workhouses that scientific inspection which was already extended to the metropolitan district. No doubt, the inevitable result of such reforms upon the large scale now asked for must entail a considerable expense. The rates had been carried down almost as low as they could go-many of the payers of poor rates were, it was well known, but very little superior in condition to the recipients of parochial relief; and therefore it required great consideration and care lest while imposing fresh burdens on the rates upon the one hand they in-effect might be to produce something not creased pauperism on the other. He must further confess he looked with great jealousy on any tendency to create large official establishments, apt to become unwieldy and unmanageable. He did not intend to criticize his noble Friend's administration at the Poor Law Board. A great deal of what his noble Friend had told them was urged in excuse of the course they had taken; but he must say that for many years past the conduct of that Board had been such as to appear, at all events to a general observer, dilatory, uncertain, irregular, and perhaps contradictory. They had recently witnessed a paralysis of all administrative action; they had seen in some of the most serious cases the spectacle of the central Board waiting for the action of the local Board, and the local Board waiting for the impulse which the central Board ought to have given; the result being that nothing was done. The Committee of the House of Commons which sat so long and published so many volumes upon this subject had reported in favour of strengthening the hands of the Poor Law Board. It was quite possible that that body should be strengthened; but he hoped when his noble Friend brought forward his Bill he would be able to show that they had made good use of all the power which Parliament had placed in their hands. Anxiously as he desired to see a great improvement, he was hardly so sanguine as to the result anticipated by the most rev. Prelate as to expect to see the work

unlike a demoralization which existed in the old time, when the poorhouse was a place of resort for all kinds of idleness and improvidence. He hoped the noble Earl in any new legislation would guard against this danger. But, besides the question of danger, there was also the question of justice to the ratepayers. The poor rate, as now collected, bore so hard and descended so low that in many cases there was very little difference between those who paid the rate and the recipients of relief. It appeared to him that when they introduced the question of large hospital accommodation in connection with these institutions, it might also be a question for consideration whether it might be advisable to place a portion of the charge on the county rate or the Consolidated Fund. He ventured to suggest to the noble Earl that it was a very serious question whether this question should not assume a totally differ. ent character. That involved a very serious question of public justice. He would ask those who brought prominently forward particular cases of harshness, whether it was not very probable that the condition of the paupers if left at home would have been at least as bad as it had been found in the workhouses. It was an extremely difficult question, for there were two parties to be considered, the pauper and the ratepayer, and he hoped the noble Earl who was so worthily intrusted with the administration of the Poor Law Department, would be enabled to assure them that the