"And that Her Majesty's Government should take into their consideration the arrangements to be made in consequence of the proposed separation of the India and China and the Australian

Mails."

There was, he would point out, a marked distinction drawn between the giving of notice for the termination of the contract for the India and China and that for the Australian mail. With reference to the former, the words used in the Report were that "the time had arrived when tenders should be invited;" while in the course of the latter the recommendation was "that Her Majesty's Government should take into their early consideration the arrangements to be made." In acting as they had done, therefore, the Government, he must again repeat, proceeded entirely in accordance with the views of the Committee. It appeared, however, that his hon. Friend opposite differed from the Chairman of the Committee, and that being so, he ought, he thought, to have protested against the words used in the Report.

would in due course act upon that opinion. | termination of the existing contract? The Now, that was exactly the course which Report went onhad been taken. As he had stated in the House last Session, he invited before giving notice the Chairman of the Committee to call upon him at the Treasury, where the question was discussed between them as to when notice should be given. His hon. Friend on that occasion expressed it to be his opinion that notice ought to be given. That being so, he thought he had disposed of the charge that the Government had not acted in accordance with the views of the Committee; because if its Chairman was not to be regarded as an adequate exponent of those views, he did not know who was. Besides, as his hon. Friend opposite (Mr. Childers) must see, the Government had no choice in the matter, because, after acting on their own responsibility for he had no wish to throw the slightest responsibility in the matter on the Chairman of the Committee - they had given private notice to the Company that they were likely before long to give formal notice that they would terminate the contract, the representatives of the Company informed them that they could not go on losing money as they were doing, and that if the Government did not give them notice they must give notice to the Government. His hon. Friend, he might add, had read certain extracts from the blue book expressing the views of the Com-sibility in the matter on the hon. Member mittee; but there were other paragraphs of the Report which would, he thought, be found to place the question in a different light. After the paragraph in their Report which his hon. Friend had first quoted, the Committee went on to say

MR. CHILDERS: My hon. Friend gave me a very different impression of the statement which he made from that conveyed by the hon. Gentleman opposite.

MR. HUNT: He did not, as he had said before, seek to throw the slightest respon

for the City of London; indeed, his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer had last Session expressly stated that the Government had no intention of the kind, and he was sure that if his hou. Friend were present he would confirm the accuracy of the statement which he had made. Such, then, as he had described, was the state of the case, so far as giving notice was concerned. But his hon. Friend opposite further contended that the Government ought to have carried out the views of Mr. Frederick Hill. CHILDERS: I said they were the views of [Mr. the Post Office.] The hon. Member for the City of London, however, last Session protested against the Government being influenced by the views of Mr. Frederick Hill, for he declared it to be his opinion that if they were to conduct the postal arrangements of the country under his advice they would be sure to do wrong. Again, it was made an accusation against the Government that they had placed themselves altogether in the hands of the Peninsular and Oriental Company, that they were

perfectly helpless, and that they must pay whatever sum that Company might demand. Was that the tone of the discussion which took place last Session? If he were not mistaken, he then heard a great deal about the poor, trodden-down Peninsular and Oriental Company, and of the necessity which there was that the House should come to its rescue, and to preserve it from the ruin which it was threatened with, owing to the policy of the Government. What was the result? Why, that the Company naturally looked upon it as quite clear that the House of Commons was of opinion that they ought to be more liberally remunerated, and that they were entitled to ask for very handsome terms. Now, all he could say with regard to the matter was this, that it was, in his opinion, the duty of the Government to make the best terms they could, while he, at the same time, most readily bore testimony to the great services which the Company in question had rendered to the country during the many years in which they had been engaged in conducting our postal communication with the East. That duty they had discharged in a manner which was highly creditable to them, and he should have been sorry to see the Company break up by reason of the Government not being able to enter into any satisfactory arrangements with them. As to the negotiation with the Messageries Impériales, since they had made no tender and the matter had fallen through, he should merely say that, while his hon. Friend opposite seemed to think that the 6th paragraph in the Report contemplated a service in substitution of ours, the hon. Member for the City of London construed it as meaning a service in addition. But then it was said that the Government had acted foolishly in entering into arrangements for the service to Bombay before the railways were completed. On that point he would read a note appended to the Memorandum sent by the Post Office to the Treasury

of 200 miles, the mail service by way of Bombay was far superior to that by Calcutta. His hon. Friend had said that it was impossible for any one to tender for the service to Bombay until those lines were open. As the lines were expected to be open in a short time, any enterprising Company might, he thought, make a tender, although the lines were not open. All this part of the case, however, turned on the question, respecting which contradictory testimony was given before the Committee-namely, whether the Great India Peninsula Railway could carry all the passenger traffic, or whether the Peninsular and Oriental Company's steamers would carry any of it; and the officers of the latter Company maintained that when the railway was finished there would still be a great passenger traffic to Calcutta. That was a question which time would determine; but at all events, there was a public advantage in the existence of two routes, as competition tended to keep down the rate of fares. With respect to what had been called the partnership question, he confessed that at first sight a partnership arrangement did not seem desirable-but the alternative was the payment of £500,000. This was not an unlimited partnership, for there was a certain amount beyond which the Government could not be called on to contribute; and as his hon. Friend was obliged to admit, this was not the first occasion when such a partnership was made. There was a partnership of a somewhat similar character in the case of the Holyhead and Kingstown contract. In reply to the objection that there was no security that the Peninsular and Oriental Company would care to raise their dividend above 6 per cent, he thought they might safely rely upon the watchfulness of the shareholders; they were a very numerous body, and having been accustomed to divide 10 per cent, they were not likely to sit down perfectly satisfied with a dividend of 6 per cent, even though it was guaranteed by the Government. Then, again, it was said that the speed prescribed for this service was obsolete, and that it was too slow and behind the age. Now he believed that in the discussions which had taken place in that House, those most interested in the question said that they looked to regularity of service more than to greater speed, and that the telegraph wire would to a great extent displace the Post Office in cases where great despatch was desirHe was told that even now, with a journey able. Nevertheless, the increase of the

"The superiority of Bombay as a point of arrival and departure for Indian mails, even before the completion of the railways between Bombay and Calcutta and Bombay and Madras, has been pointed out by the Select Committee on East India Communications (pages v. and vi. of their Report), by Lord Canning, by the Director-General of the Post Office of India in the years 1860-1861 (vide pages 231 to 234, 241 to 244), and by the Director-General of the Post Office of India in 1865 (vide pages 280 to 282 of the Appendix to the Report of that Committee."

MR. HUNT said, he had often heard talk about luxuries and about necessaries; but he had never until then heard war described as a political luxury. He would ask the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Darby Griffith) to re-consider his determination, because he should remember this was a supplemental Bill, and that it would be an exceedingly inconvenient thing to make any special exemptions. The Amendment, of which his hon. Friend had given notice, might be well worthy of consideration at the proper time, but it would hardly apply to supplemental tax, and in fact he doubted if it would be possible in this Bill to alter the terms of the original basis upon which the tax was then imposed.

EDUCATION.-RESOLUTIONS.

EARL RUSSELL, who had given notice. to move the following Resolutions :

"1. That in the Opinion of this House the Education of the Working Classes in England and Wales ought to be extended and improved : Every Child has a moral Right to the Blessings of Education, and it is the Duty of the State to guard and maintain that Right. In the Opinion of this House the Diffusion of Knowledge ought not to be hindered by Religious Differences; nor should the early Employment of the Young in Labour be allowed to deprive them of Education:

"2. That it is the Opinion of this House that Parliament and Government should aid in the Education of the Middle Classes by providing for the better Administration of Charitable Endow

ments:

"3. That it is the Opinion of this House that the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge may be

Motion agreed to: Bill read the second made more useful to the Nation by the Removal time, and committed for Monday.

House adjourned at half after Twelve
o'clock, till Monday.

HOUSE OF LORDS,

of Restrictions, and by the Appointment of a Commission to consider of the better Distribution

of their large Revenues for Purposes of Instruc

tion in connection with the said Universities:

"4. That the Appointment of a Minister of Education by the Crown, with a Seat in the Cabinet, would, in the Opinion of this House, be conducive to the Public Benefit:"

rose and said: My Lords, in rising to move the Resolutions of which I have given notice on the subject of Education, I suppose there are none of your Lordships who would at all question the importance of that subject; and I shall endeavour to explain, as shortly as I can, the reasons MINUTES.]-PUBLIC BILLS-First Reading-which have induced me to bring forward East London Museum Site* (2); Sales of Reversions* (5); Metropolitan Streets Act (1867) Amendment (4).

Monday, December 2, 1867.

"That, Her Majesty having directed a Military Expedition to be despatched against Abyssinia, consisting mainly of Troops both European and Native at present maintained out of the Revenues of India, the ordinary Pay of such Troops as well as the ordinary Charges of any Vessels belonging to the Government of India that may be employed in the Expedition, which would have been charged upon the Revenues of India if such Troops or Vessels had remained in that Country or Seas adjacent, shall continue to be so chargeable; provided, that if it shall become necessary to replace the Troops or Vessels so withdrawn by other European or Native Forces or Vessels, the Expense of raising, maintaining, and providing such Forces or Vessels shall be repaid out of any Monies which may be provided by Parliament for the Purposes of the said Expedition."

The said Resolution to be considered on Thursday next.-(The Earl of Derby.)

the question in the shape in which I have placed it upon the Paper. It seems to me that we are often placed in a very unpleasant, not to say an humiliating, position when Bills are brought up to this House at a late period of the Session. I after I had the honour of a seat in this remember being very much struck, soon House, by a statement of the noble and learned Lord, now on the Woolsack, when several Bills were brought from the other House relating to the amendment of the Criminal Law. The noble and learned Lord stated that the amendment of the Criminal Law was a very important subject, and was one upon which this House was peculiarly qualified to form an opinion; and one on which he might have added, that the House, if it liked, could have the assistance of the Judges-but that owing to the late period of the Session, he did not think it advisable to propose any Amendments, and he therefore consented to the Bills. We have since had other Bills of great importance brought to this House at so late a period that it appears to me the House is

placed in this position-that your Lord-marriage register, while of those married ships must either assent to these Bills at Bethnal Green, 34 per cent were in without examination, or else must reject this state of ignorance. The proportion them without consideration. It would be generally over England and Wales may much better then, if this House could be be taken at about 30 per cent. These enabled in some way or other to take a more figures, however, do not exhibit comdeliberate view of questions of this mag-pletely the deficiency of education which nitude, which so deeply concern the condition of the country and affect the welfare of the people. What I am proposing on this occasion is not to bring before your Lordships the details of any plan, still less to interfere with the privilege of the House of Commons of providing the means for any extended education, but to lay before your Lordships certain principles which, I think, ought to be the guide for any legislation on this subject, and which can alone carry your Lordships to safe and useful conclusions.

exists, because there are many who have attended at school very early in life, having been kept there but a very short time, but who entirely forget what they have learnt there, and afterwards relapse into complete ignorance. It appears to me, then, I confess, that this state of things justifies some proceeding of a very wide and comprehensive nature to carry the blessings of education much further than at present. In the first Resolution I have inserted the word "moral" to prevent the cavil which might be made against any supposed legal right of a child to be educated. It accordingly runs thus

"That in the Opinion of this House the Education of the Working Classes in England and Wales ought to be extended and improved: Every Child has a moral Right to the Blessings of Education, and it is the Duty of the State to guard and maintain that Right."

My Lords, it appears to me that the first matter with which we have to deal, is the deficiency of education that now exists, and I will take a description of that deficiency from a draft Report which was proposed, though not assented to, in the Committee of the House of Commons which sat in 1865-6 on the subject of the Education of the Poor. It was stated in that Report In 1835, in the discussion which took place that there are more than 11,000 parishes when Lord Brougham proposed a series of which derive no assistance from what is Resolutions in this House-which, I becalled our educational grants, and it is lieve, were agreed to, as they have cerstated that the population of these parishes tainly formed the foundation for meamay be fairly estimated at not less than sures which have since been passed-Lord 6,000,000. According to the usual com- Denman said, and without any rhetorical putation now made, that one-sixth of the phrase, that he very seriously doubted how population ought to be at school, that would far the State was justified in inflicting leave a deficiency of 1,000,000 among punishment for offences against the comthose who ought to be receiving the bless- mission of which they had taken no pains ings of education. In a speech lately to guard. I conceive that this statement published of Mr. Bruce, who in the former is perfectly well founded; and it does seem Government filled the office of Vice Presi- to me that to allow children to go out into dent of the Committee of Council on the streets of towns and villages without Education, it is stated that of the popula- any education whatever, totally ignorant, tion of England and Wales amounting to as in many cases they are, of the name 21,000,000, 3,500,000 ought to be at of God or of Christ, and knowing nothing school. But only 2,450,000 of these are whatever of the laws of the country, if borne on the books of all the existing afterwards you punish them for any offences schools, including those assisted and un- they may commit, when you have taken no assisted by the State; leaving, therefore, pains to educate them, is to sanction a de1,050,000 unaccounted for. I do not wish gree of injustice which ought not longer to trouble your Lordships with any long to continue. I believe the people of this array of figures; but I may state that country are perfectly right when they say, there are in existence statistics showing" If we are ignorant, why do you not eduthe number of persons who could not write their names when they were married, and these are so unevenly distributed that of those married at St. George's, Hanover Square, there were only 3 per cent of each sex who could not write their names in the

cate us?" I believe they are quite justified in making that claim, and that the principle is one which ought to be acted upon by Parliament.

The next question that arises is as to the manner in which we are to educate