say POSTAL SERVICE WITH THE UNITED STATES.-OBSERVATIONS. hon. Member for the King's County, as I demanded was excessive? It appeared to being resident in Abyssinia, and the French him that there was no reason for rejectcolony established by him, I do not knowing the tender on these grounds. But he anything. I am not aware that that was told that the Hamburg steamboat gentleman's relations with King Theodore taking the mails from Southampton on are or were very intimate, and I must Friday would come into competition with I doubt whether his mediation would the Cunard boat starting on Saturday be of any avail. I do not say that from evening. But then it should be borne in any feeling of jealousy as to French in- mind that the Hamburg boats starting fluence or French intervention. We are from Southampton would require only on the best possible terms with the French 4 hours between the closing of the mail Government, and I have no doubt that if in London and the departure from Southit were in their power they would help ampton; while the Cunard boats, though us out of the difficulty. professing to go in a shorter period, starting from Queenstown, would require 18 hours. If therefore they added to the length of the voyage of the Cunard boat the difference between 4 hours and 18, it would seem that the tender of the Hamburg Company for 11 days would be very nearly equal to that of the Cunard Company. If that were so, it was quite clear that it would be for the advantage of the public that there should be a despatch of mails on Friday as well as on Saturday. Now, it would be well to consider the free system as compared with the system of subsidies. He had been told that while on the one hand the whole amount required was only £200 a voyage, the amount payable to the Cunard Company, under special contract, would be about £1,600 a voyage. Unless some substantial reasons could be given it was highly impolitic to grant a set of mer chants a subsidy to the extent of £1,400 a voyage over what was required by others. It appeared that the Government were attempting to diminish the payments to the Company by spreading the contract over a number of years; but that would be only an aggravation of the evil. He hoped the Government did not contemplate such a. bargain as they had made with the Peninsular and Oriental, binding themselves for a number of years. The system of contracts was a bad one. He hoped even now that the Government would take a more liberal view of the matter, and give equal payments to all companies engaged in ocean navigation, for what they were doing at present was making one company pay for another. He trusted also that the hon. Gentleman in his reply would not introduce, as he had done on a former occasion, any remarks of a personal character. MR. AYRTON called attention to the proceedings of Her Majesty's Government respecting the Postal Service between England and the United States; and asked the Secretary of the Treasury what course they intend to pursue? It was generally admitted that our intercourse with the United States was so extensive that we had arrived at a point when it was undesirable that any contract should be made in the nature of a subsidy for carrying the mails, or giving encouragement to one Company at the expense of others. The true interest of this country consisted in encouraging the greatest amount of competition. The Government, acting upon that view, had invited tenders for the mail service, and several companies sent in proposals. The Bremen Company tendered for Tuesday; the Messrs. Inman for Thursday; the Hamburg Company for Friday; and he believed Saturday was left open as the day for the Cunard Company. Thus proposals were made for a service four times a week; and there was no reason why one Company should have any advantage over another, provided they rendered the same service in the same, or nearly the same time. There was also a fifth Company which made a tender, but it was said that it was for such a slow service that New York would be reached as soon by the succeeding steamboat. If that were so, it would be a sufficient answer. But he understood that the Government had accepted the tenders for Tuesday and Thursday, but not for Friday. He would like to know upon what grounds the Government had declined to accept the tender for that day. Was it thought that the service would not be sufficiently expeditious, or that the sum The constituency which he represented was one that had the largest interest in commercial matters of any constituency in the world, and the question was one which affected not only individuals, but the public at large. MR. O'BEIRNE protested against the economical principles laid down by the hon. Gentleman. For his own part, he was perfectly disinterested, for he had no shares in any of the companies concerned. It was altogether impossible to throw open to competition such a service as this. To carry it on, it was necessary to have an immense amount of capital, a large number of vessels, and that preparations extending over several years should be made. He thought arrangements made by the Government were the best possible under the circumstances. the tender exactly in the way the Post Office desired; but the Messrs. Cunard declined, and the Government were left without an offer with regard to the day which experience had proved to be the favourite one for sending correspondence to America. Under these circumstances, were they to leave the country in the lurch? The matter was one of very great difficulty, because the Cunard Company insisted upon a contract for a term. It was thought by the Government that the Post Office at Washington might be willing to enter into terms; and, if so, the contract would be for a sea-postage and not a subsidy. But the Post Office at Washington was not favourable to the proposal, and under the circumstances the Government entered into a contract for the conveyance of the mails for £80,000 for the year. But there was this stipulation that Messrs. Cunard should account to the Postmaster General for the whole of the postage they would earn on the return voyage, the calculation of the Post Office being that the sea-post MR. HUNT said, with regard to the concluding remarks of the hon. Member for the Tower Hamlets, he was exceedingly sorry if anything that had fallen from him the other evening could be regarded as of a personal character. He was always most anxious to avoid anything of that kind; but he had thought it necessary to point out on that occasion that the Gentlemen most interested in the mat-age would come to £75,000. The Comter under discussion were not present to join in the animadversions passed on the Government by the hon. Member. He held it to be very desirable that Gentlemen | not personally interested should give the House the benefit of their opinions. With respect to the question now before the House, he had arrived at the conclusion that the mail service to America ought to be self-supporting; but that was quite a different thing from saying that no contracts should be made for a term of years, because Companies would not be likely to put the best ships on the line unless they were sure of a contract for a certain period, quite irrespective of the amount of payment for the service. In his opinion, therefore, the Government ought to secure to Companies competing in answer to their invitation a certain period of time. As to the terms given to the Cunard Company for carrying the Saturday mails to New York, he believed, if looked into, the contract would be found to be self-supporting. The question was hardly between a sea-postage and a fixed sum; both were subsidies in different shapes. His hon. Friend had alluded to the different offers the Government had had, and was correct in saying that they had accepted the offer of the North German Company for Tuesday, that of the Inman Company for Thursday, and the Cunard Company for Saturday. The first two Companies made pany further undertook to provide for the sorting of the letters and to find subsistence for the sorting officers, which was calculated as equivalent to a sum of £3,500; so that the margin of difference was so small that if the Post Office was right, the matter might be considered selfsupporting. As to the convenience of sending the mails from Southampton on Friday, it was quite possible there might be two opinions on the subject. It seemed to him, however, that there was no advantage in having mails leave on a greater number of days under the circumstances in question. The Hamburg-American Company did not sail from Liverpool or Queenstown, but Southampton on Friday, and the time was to be 11 days. The letters, therefore, would be delivered in New York on the Tuesday or Wednesday of the next week but one, and it was reckoned that the Cunard Company, which would have the letters sorted on board, would deliver their letters quite as soon. In that case it hardly seemed advisable to enter into a contract with the HamburgAmerican Company. It was open, however, to any person to avail himself of the Hamburg line by having his letters addressed to be forwarded vid Southampton by that line. This alternative line might be of some advantage to merchants. Of course, if this contract had been made with the Hamburg-American line, it would have subtracted from the amount earned cantile community. Again, if a subsidy by the Cunard Company-not, however, for themselves, but for the Government. Under these circumstances, the Government had endeavoured to do justice to all parties as far as they could consistently do so, and when the correspondence was placed in the hands of Members, as it would be in a few days, he thought they would be satisfied that the Government had done the best they could for the public interest, under somewhat difficult circumstances. MR. HUNT: The Inman and the Cunard boats. had been offered to other steampacket companies, there might have been a competition upon the basis ultimately agreed upon with the Cunard Company. But the Government first issued notices for tenders in a given form, and, when these were of no avail, concluded an arrangement with the Cunard Company upon quite another basis. The great thing in all these cases was to encourage competition, and he was afraid, if these matters were not thoroughly unMR. GOSCHEN said, the published derstood, the impression would go abroad documents did not show that the Cunard that it was not of much use to tender, beboats leaving Queenstown on the Sun- cause the Government preferred to deal day could perform the voyage so as to with certain great Companies. He was arrive at the same time as the Hamburg- glad that an explanation on this point had American boats starting from South- been elicited from the hon. Gentleman ampton on Friday. The average length (Mr. Hunt), in order that it might be seen of the voyage of the Cunard boats was that the principle of competition in these 10 days, 113 hours; and if you added to cases was accepted by him and by the this the length of time occupied in the House-though in this particular instance despatch of letters to Queenstown, you he was of opinion that the interests of the had an average outward voyage of 11 days, mercantile community had not been con5 hours. The Hamburg-American Com-sulted as they might have been. pany performed the voyage from South- MR. MAGUIRE asked, what steamers ampton in 11 days, 5 hours; and, adding were to call at Queenstown besides the to this the 4 hours occupied in the transit Cunard boats? of letters from London to Southampton, you have an average voyage of 11 days, 9 hours. Thus there was only a difference of three or four hours in the length of time occupied in carrying the mails; whereas, on the assumption of the hon. MR. HUNT said, that in the contract Gentleman, there ought to be a difference the Cunard Company were put under no of a day or two days. He was at a loss, penalties for the performance of the sertherefore, to understand the calculations vice within a given time. They always of the hon. Gentleman. It was desirable said that such a clause led their captains to have as many companies carrying mails to be rash and to risk the safety of those and as many weekly services as possible on board in their anxiety to avoid the between this country and America. That penalties. In the calculation made by the was the general opinion of the mercantile right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Goschen) with world. It seemed, in order to pay the regard to the time occupied in transmitting Cunard Company a greater subsidy than letters to go by the Hamburg-American could be paid if the offer of the Hamburg-line, he had forgotten that their steamers American Company were accepted, letters were to be detained in this country for two days. The hon. Gentleman said that letters leaving Queenstown on the Sunday were likely to reach their destination in America as soon as letters leaving Southampton on Friday. Well, the merchants would be the best judges of this. If they found that the Sunday steamer was the best, they would naturally not send on the Friday; and the result, therefore, of saving a certain amount of money to the Treasury would be accomplished by an additional mail service instead of by inconveniencing the mer MR. SHAW LEFEVRE asked, to what penalties the Cunard Company was subjected for delay? could not take Friday's letters, as they started on Friday morning-they could only carry letters written up to Thursday night. His calculations, moreover, were based entirely upon a consideration of the London correspondence, to the exclusion of the correspondence from all other parts of the kingdom. The letters from the North, for instance, could be much more conveniently sent vid Queenstown. MR. AYRTON said, he had been told that the Hamburg-American Company had offered to run their boats from Southampton at any hour, however late, on Friday. ABYSSINIA CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN DR. BEKE AND OTHERS AND THE FOREIGN OFFICE. PERSONAL EXPLANATION. MR. NEWDEGATE asked permission of the House to offer a very short explanation with reference to the Orders of the House on the previous day, in which his name appeared. He yesterday thought it his duty to move that the words "Also such portions of a Letter addressed by Dr. Beke to the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs dated the 14th day of October 1867, relative to a conversation between him and Mr. Palgrave at Cairo, in December 1855, as bear upon the foregoing Correspondence," be added to a Resolution of the hon. Member for Southwark (Mr. Layard) "For an humble Address for Copy of the Correspondence between Dr. Beke, Mr. Purday, Mr. Palgrave, and the Foreign Office, referred to in the Letter from Dr. Beke to Lord Clarendon, dated the 11th day of June 1866, published in a recent Blue Book." He (Mr. Newdegate) had given a Notice for to-day "For an Address for Copy of a Letter addressed by Dr. Beke to the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, dated the 14th day of October 1867, re lative to a conversation between him and Mr. Palgrave at Cairo in December 1865," which in the then state of the House he would not go into even if he were pro nounced to be in order, about which it seemed there was some doubt. But what he wished to explain to the House was this-that his reason for having thought of proceeding with the notice which stood in his name that day was that the Resolution of the House was for an Address for certain Correspondence up to June, 1866, only; and one of his principal ob jects was to show that there was a subsequent correspondence in the hands of the Foreign Office which might be essential to Dr. Beke's defence. That object he had achieved; and although he regretted that the House was not disposed to accede to his proposition, still he had accomplished his object, which was that no one could believe that the correspondence terminated on the 11th of June, 1866, which more than a year ago, and he was wished to leave this question in this position:-Dr. Beke had placed in the hands of the Foreign Office documents which he conceived were essential to his justification; and he (Mr. Newdegate wished to express the hope that as Dr. Beke had thus placed that correspondence in the hands of the Foreign Office and Her Majesty's Government, they would not allow him to be prejudiced by any false impression arising from the limited Resolution which the House had come to-a limit which cut off the correspondence after the 11th of June, 1866, more than a year ago. And in explanation of his own conduct last night, he (Mr. Newdegate) could only express his regret, on reflection, that the Speaker had reason, on that occasion, to say that he (Mr. Newdegate) was out of order. He was out of order on that occasion. He had ever studied to keep within the rules of order. He hoped that the Speaker would consider the extraordinary difficult position of an independent Member of the House-a difficulty which was every day becoming greater. He had never known a Session in which the difficulties were greater; and he trusted that hereafter he would have the good fortune of never giving the Speaker good reason to say that he was out of order again. MR. SPEAKER: I am happy to accept the explanation of the hon. Member. It is always painful to me to apply strictly the rules of the House. The Question is, that this House, at its rising, do adjourn to Thursday, the 13th of February. Motion agreed to. House at its rising to adjourn till Thursday, 13th February. PUBLIC DEPARTMENTS (EXTRA RECEIPTS) BILL. On Motion of Mr. HUNT, Bill to regulate the disposal of Extra Receipts of Public Departments, ordered to be brought in by Mr. HUNT and Mr. CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 26.] House adjourned at a quarter before Two o'clock, till Thursday, 13th February. THE LORD CHANCELLOR, on rising. MR. BAXTER said, he would beg to to introduce a Bill to amend the Law re- ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, lating to Promissory Oaths, said, it was Whether he will fix a day for the intronot his intention to explain its object on duction of the Scotch Reform Bill? the present occasion. When, however, the Bill came on for a second reading, he would fully state the purport of its provisions. He would now merely ask their Lordships to assent to the first reading, and would fix the second reading for Tuesday next. HOUSE OF COMMONS, MINUTES.]-NEW WRITS ISSUED-For West- THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: Sir, I contemplate that it shall be introduced on Monday next. SIR HENRY WINSTON - BARRON: When will the Irish Reform Bill be brought in? THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: I will fix an early day for it, but it must depend upon the general arrangement of business, with which we shall become better acquainted in a few days. |