Otago as covenanted block and agricultural reserves, which the Government had a right to take from runholders without any compensation. Mr. McINDOE said he believed Mr. Domett had in view the placing of the claimant in this case in exactly the same position as other persons, who wanted to obtain land. He founded that opinion on a short paragraph in the report, which he would read to the Committee. It was

as follows:

"Suppose it, then, to be assumed that the claimant was to have 5,000 acres, it seems to me to be only fair that the land so to be taken should be available, and not worthless, as the land he appears to have been on the point of obtaining was close to a coast town, and then considered valuable."

It was evident, from that, that it was not intended that the claimant should have the selection of the best land in the Province, but be placed in a similar position to other people who selected land on the usual terms.

Question put, "That the Bill be re-committed, for the further consideration of clause 2," upon which a division was called for, with the following result:

WESTLAND WASTE LANDS BILL. This Bill was considered in Committee, reported with amendments, which were agreed to, and the Bill read a third time, and passed.

KAIAPOI NATIVE INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL GRANT BILL.

On the motion of Mr. McLEAN, this Bill was read a second time, considered in Committee, reported without amendment, read a third time, and passed.

VOLUNTEER BILL.

This Bill was read a second time, considered in Committee, reported with amendments, which were agreed to, and the Bill read a third time, and passed.

WATER-RIGHTS BILL.

On the motion for going into Committee on this Bill,

Mr. ROLLESTON said some honorable members had expressed their objection to this Bill being proceeded with at this period of the session, and, therefore, he would not press it.

Mr. CRACROFT WILSON, C.B., hoped the Bill would not be proceeded with, as great damage might be done through it. He had had considerable experience of the result of diverting water from mountain torrents, and he felt convinced the present Bill would lead to more litigation and destruction of property than any one could imagine. The Provincial Government would have more claims for compensation brought against them than the honorable member anticipated. He would move that the Bill be discharged.

Mr. HALL said if it were generally thought that at this period of the session it would not be wise for the House to go into this question, which was a somewhat difficult one, he would not recommend the honorable member for Avon to proceed with the Bill. He could not, however, coincide with the remarks of the honorable member for Coleridge. So far from discouraging an attempt to divert water from streams in this country, especially in that part of it where he principally resided, he thought it was an exceedingly desirable object. They should endeavour to encourage to the utmost the promotion of irrigation in New Zealand generally, and especially in its large plains. It would bring considerable tracts of land into cultivation which, owing to want of water, were now practically useless. He believed the Bill had been brought forward by his honorable friend in compliance with a resolution advisedly come to by the Provincial Council of Canterbury. If they did not proceed with the Bill, it should be understood that it was owing to the fact of its being too difficult a subject to deal with effectually at that advanced period of the session, and not from any doubt as to the desirability of promoting the object for which it was framed.

Mr. ROLLESTON had communication with several honorable members on the subject, and it was partly understood that it would not be proceeded with this session.

WAIRAU VALLEY ROADS RESERVA

TION BILL.

Mr. McLEAN moved that the second reading of this Bill be postponed until Wednesday next, until he should find out who had charge of the Bill. From observations made by the honorable member for Timaru, he understood that the Bill affected the rights of private property.

The SPEAKER considered this Bill to be highly objectionable. He had made inquiry, and found that its object was to take a portion of the private property of a gentleman without giving him notice of the intention to do so. It was due to the owner of the property that he should have notice, in order that he might appear before the tribunal that was to take a part of his property from him, and be heard on the matter.

Mr. CRACROFT WILSON, C.B., would oppose the Bill, as it purported to upset what had been done in 1866, which was mainly to remove all doubts as to the absolute validity of titles to land held in fee simple, under Crown grants, in which rights-of-way were reserved for roads. As there were many Crown grants which did contain a reservation as regarded the right of making roads, he had caused those clauses to be put into the Act in order to make the Crown grants legally valid. This Bill would upset what had been done in 1866, and he would move that it be read a second time that day six months.

Mr. BUNNY would support the motion for the postponement of the order of the day, so as to give the person in charge of the Bill an opportunity of stating his reasons for introducing such a measure.

Mr. BAIGENT said it would be a pity that the country should be shut up. There must be a road to Wairau Valley, and he would support the motion for postponement.

Mr. BARFF had made inquiry about the Bill, and there were grave doubts as to whether it was not a private Bill. He believed the honorable gentleman at whose instance the Bill was originally brought forward was prepared to allow it to drop.

The amendment was agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be read a second time that day six months.

THIRD READINGS.

The Hawke's Bay Crown Lands Sale Bill and the Railway Gauge Bill were considered in Committee, reported without amendment, read a third time, and passed.

NATIVE LANDS BILL.

Mr. McLEAN, in moving the second reading of this Bill, said its object was to extend the time within which rehearings of claims under "The Native Lands Act, 1865," might be granted. It was felt that the three months now allowed was too short, and it frequently happened that the application for a rehearing was not received until after the three months had expired. The

an opportunity afforded them of having their cases reheard. This Bill was merely reverting back to the Act of 1865, which allowed six months for rehearing of claims.

Mr. CARLETON presumed he might take it for granted that this Bill did not extend beyond the description given of it by the Native Minister. He took a great deal of interest in the Native Lands Act, but the present Bill had escaped his notice, and he had not made himself master of its true purport. If it had no further object than that stated, he would not object to it.

Mr. McLEAN said the Bill had no other object than that stated.

The Bill was read a second time, considered in Committee, reported without amendment, read a third time, and passed.

TARANAKI VOLUNTEERS.

ADJOURNED DEBATE.

Mr. McLEAN said he had had a communication with the mover of the motion, who had agreed to withdraw it on the understanding that the matter would be more fully inquired into. The Govern ment would inquire into the general state of the confiscated lands and the claims of the Volunteers referred to in the motion.

Mr. KELLY said that, as the Defence Minister had promised to inquire into the matter, he would ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Leave granted, and the motion withdrawn.

CANTERBURY RIVERS BILL. The amendment proposed by His Excellency the Governor in this Bill was agreed to.

PUBLIC REVENUES BILL.

Mr. VOGEL, in moving the second reading of this Bill, said the Bill had been referred to the Public Accounts Committee, by whom several amendments had been introduced. The object of the Bill was to remedy some of the difficulties referred to in the earlier part of the session, arising out of the provision made last year, which rendered it necessary to produce the reserve account within ten days after the commencment of the session, but which was found to be impossible. Besides that, the Bill proposed to provide that any part of the reserved account could be made out, and that, after it had been referred to the Controller, the outstanding liabilities on account of purposes for which the House had made appropriations could, to the extent of the money unexpended of each appropriation, be satisfied. It would not be necessary that the reserve account should be laid upon the table before it was operated upon. Section 9 of the Bill referred to the improvement which was promised in the financial statement, of enabling the special fund to be kept as a distinct account in the bank for the purpose of issue, and as a distinct account also for the purpose of payment by the Paymaster-General. He did not think it necessary to detain the House with any further explanations, as the Bill had been referred to the Public Accounts Committee, and the amendments which

had been suggested by that Committee had been introduced.

Mr. HALL said it was quite correct, as the honorable member had stated, that the Bill had been referred to the Public Accounts Committee, and that some amendments had been made in it by the Committee. Although those amendments had been recommended, it was not to be inferred that the Committee, or he, as one of its members, agreed to the financial policy of which this measure was a part, or that they withdrew the objections they entertained to the system introduced last session by the Colonial Treasurer. He retained entirely the opinions he had formerly expressed, the correctness of which he thought the experience of the past year had established. By allowing this Bill to pass without opposition, he must not be understood to qualify, in any way, the opinion he had formerly expressed on the modifications in our financial system introduced by the Colonial Treasurer, or to forego his right to propose the revocation of that alteration whenever it should appear to him a convenient season for doing so. Some parts of this Bill he agreed with, especially the proposed alterations with respect to the special fund, and, so far as it related to the reserve fund, the alteration proposed was necessary because the system would not work without it; but he did not think the system itself any less objectionable than he formerly did.

Mr. VOGEL was sorry his honorable friend had not been convinced, but he hoped that in course of time he would be convinced that no improvement introduced into the House in modern times had exceeded that of the system of ascer- | taining the expenditure and comparing it with the amount voted by the House. The House had thus a check not only upon the unauthorized expenditure but on the amounts expended in excess of the amounts voted. It might not be an improvement, from a Government point of view; it would be a sacrifice which the Government would make of a considerable amount of power, by placing in the hands of honorable members a general power of controlling the expenditure. He thought that that was part of a very great improvement.

Mr. CRACROFT WILSON, C.B., said that if this Bill would effect the consummation which the honorable member said it would, he (Mr. Wilson) could only that it was a consummation which had never been effected since he had been in New Zealand.

The Bill was read a second time, considered in Committee, reported with amendments, which were agreed to, and the Bill read a third time, and passed.

IMMIGRATION AND PUBLIC WORKS LOAN BILL.

Mr. VOGEL.-This Bill has already been, indirectly, the subject of so much discussion, that I will not detain honorable members by any lengthened notice of its provisions, in moving that it be read a second time. The last clause of the Bill has been slightly altered to meet the case of the Imperial Government gua

ranteeing a loan of one million. Honorable members are aware that by the last mail we received copies of_an_incomplete Bill which, when the mail left England, had passed its first reading in the House of Commons. It is impossible to suggest what shape that Bill will have assumed before becoming law; it will, no doubt, have been altered to some extent; but, be that as it may, if the Bill now before honorable members is passed with the last clause as we propose, the Government will be enabled to make arrangements with the Lords of the Treasury. There is a difficulty with respect to making the guaranteed loan a prior charge upon the revenues of the Colony. It is understood that the million is proposed to be raised in five years, at the rate of £200,000 a year; and if an unlimited priority is asked for, that loan would take priority over the defence loan, the money to be raised under which will be wanted from year to year for defence purposes, and for the purpose of paying off certain liabilities. Clearly, it would be impossible for us to give priority of charge to a loan for new public works over one for purposes which imperatively require attention. I think, however, the difficulty will be found to be rather an imaginary than a real one; because, by the addition which we propose to make to the last clause of this Bill, we ask the House to place in the hands of the Government power to make such an arrangement with the Lords of the Treasury as may be found necessary, provided that such contract or arrangement be not inconsistent with the purposes for which this loan is authorized to be raised. In the Imperial Act, I find the words, that the Treasury shall "not give any guarantee under this Act, unless and until provision has been made, either before or after the passing of this Act, by an Act of the Legislature of New Zealand, or otherwise, to the satisfaction of the Treasury," and so on. The words "or otherwise" clearly contemplate some such course as that which we now propose-that a general power shall be placed in the hands of the Government to make such arrangements as may satisfy the Lords of the Treasury. With such a power, it may be possible for the Government to arrange that the one million guaranteed loan shall take priority over any fresh loans subsequent to those that may be authorized this session; and to such an arrangement the House would probably not object. The addition which I have now indicated to the last clause of the Bill, is one which the Government have, after mature consideration, resolved to recommend to the House. It is, of course, quite possible that the Imperial Bill may not have passed without modifications by which larger power is allowed to the Lords of the Treasury than was allowed by the Bill as it was introduced. It may be that they will be allowed to make the guarantee cover, not only the one million, but the four millions which, in all, we are now proposing to take authority to raise. If the period was made ten years, say, instead of thirty-five years, and the guarantee was of interest only, instead of principal and interest, the whole four millions would be made more salable, without involving a larger

risk to the Imperial Government than in the case of the one million only. But those are matters as to which the Government ask that power of arrangement with the Lords of the Treasury shall be left in their hands. I move the second reading of the Bill.

Mr. JOLLIE, who spoke from under the gallery, and was indistinctly heard, was understood to say that, although he believed any opposition he or others might offer to the Bill now under consideration would be as unavailing as that already offered to those other proposals of the Government of which that Bill was the necessary consequence and complement, he was, nevertheless, not disposed, by his silence, to allow it to be imagined that he in any way assented to the Bill as it now stood, or was at all inclined to share in that enormous responsibility" which the Colonial Treasurer, in his financial statement, truly said the Government had undertaken in proposing such measures. Notwithstanding the modifications those measures had undergone in that House and elsewhere, he must altogether object to their passing, for he considered them still fraught with danger to both the financial and political interests of the country. He would not, on this occasion, reiterate all the objections he entertained to the Government scheme, but he wished to glance at some of its main features, and would refer for a moment to the extent to which he considered they were now about finally to commit themselves and the country. The Bill before them, together with the Immigration and Public Works Bill, and the Defence Loan Bill, not merely authorized the raising of £5,000,000 by loan, but gave the Government the power of extending the financial engagements of the country, in one form or other, to the enormous amount of £13,000,000. By the present Bill it was proposed that they should provide for an expenditure in money of £2,000,000 on railways, £1,000,000 on immigration, £400,000 on roads in the North Island, £300,000 on waterworks on gold fields, £200,000 in purchase of Native lands, £60,000 on telegraph extension, and £40,000 remained to be hereafter apportioned,-making £4,000,000 altogether; whilst, under the Defence Loan Act, there was to be raised another million, of which £790,000, or, including what was intended to withdraw outstanding treasury bills, £827,000, was appropriated for defence purposes, and £173,000 for certain purposes of an exclusively provincial character. Then, under clause 23 of the Immigration and Public Works Bill, authority was given for expending on railways-or encumbering the resources of the Colony, in the shape of subsidies for their construction, guarantee of interest, or land to be given in payment-a further amount of £5,500,000, independent of two and a half million acres of land required for the Nelson and Cobden railway, but which, inasmuch as it had already been set apart by Act of Assembly for that purpose, was rather an incidental than an essential feature of the proposals now before the House. Putting that aside, therefore, the practical money value which the various plans and projects of the Government represented

or required was not less than £10,500,000. The House might remember that on a former occasion he had recognized the necessity of a further loan, but limited to £1,500,000, or, at the utmost, £2,000,000. Now, taking the latter amount, what he should have proposed doing was this: First of all, he would have taken up the £500,000, or whatever was the actual amount of the floating debt; another £500,000 he would have appropriated in aid of defence expenditure over a period of five years; £200,000 he would have set apart for the purpose of inaugurating, cautiously and tentatively, a system of immigration at the expense of the Colony; the remaining £800,000 he should have proposed to expend on public works of the most immediately necessary and useful character, in equal proportions within the two Islands. To that extent, and for those purposes, further borrowing might perhaps be justified, under all the circumstances of the Colony; but the proposals of the Government, as they were originally made, and to the extent they were now about to adopt them, were, in his opinion, quite unauthorized by the actual condition of the country, and immensely beyond its prospects and resources for a long time to come. It appeared to him as if both the Government and the House altogether forgot or ignored the present position of the Colony, and the engagements it had already incurred. They seemed to forget that we had already borrowed seven and a half millions-that the proportion of debt for each man, woman, and child in the Colony reached £30 a head, whilst in England it was only £25 10s.-that the revenue was little over a million, and the existing debt charges, general and provincial, absorbed £474,000, or nearly half of it, whilst the annual expenditure on account of the national debt of Great Britain was little over a third of her revenue. They forgot, besides, that the interest and sinking fund on the debt of the Colony, existing or yet to be incurred, had, nearly the whole of it, to be sent out of the country to the home creditor, instead of being returned to and again fructifying through the pockets of those who contributed it, as in the case of Great Britain. They appeared to forget, also, the position in which the present taxpayers of the Colony would be placed if these new undertakings were to be proceeded with, and heavy additional taxation imposed on them, as would be absolutely necessary in order to meet the cost. The fact was, as it seemed to him, they were about to repeat, in the case of the Colony, on a scale immensely increased, the dangerous experiment which the Province of Southland some years ago ventured on-that of largely over-estimating its resources, speculating wildly on the future, and plunging into debt, beyond reasonable necessity and without reasonable hope of being able to sustain the burdens which it would entail. Southland, however, in her trouble had the Colony to fall back upon, and the Colony, of course, came to her rescue; but he need hardly remind the House that New Zealand, should she now blindly place herself in a similar position, could look for no