Mr. JONES. There is a standard rule put out by the American Society for Testing Materials, for procedure and method of sampling coal, and our man, who had formerly been with the Government for 8 years and outside of industry, cannot be accused of any partiality in sampling or analyzing coal. Mr. JENKINS. It would not be to your advantage to have an inefficient group do that, would it? Mr. JONES. No, sir. Mr. JENKINS. Now, let me ask you, these 16 people that you say that are on your board, you selected a man from the miners' union as a man representing labor and he would represent the greatest percentage of your labor? Mr. JONES. Oh, yes; we are practically 100 percent union. Mr. JENKINS. In that respect the little man, or the little miner, he does not belong to the union and that fellow would not be speaking for him very loudly, would he? Mr. JONES. The labor member of the board is not very active. He is only 1 out of 17, and probably he does not attend half the time at the board meeting." Mr. JENKINS. The other 16, how do they get their pay for what they do? Mr. JONES. They are not paid anything, except their expenses, attending a meeting, a board meeting. Mr. JENKINS. Who lays down the amount that they are to be paid? Is that uniform in all of the districts? Does that restriction come from Washington, or do you lay it down yourselves? Mr. JONES. I think that that is uniform throughout the country. Mr. JENKINS. Very well, and they come to meetings every month, or every 2 weeks? Mr. JONES. Our regular monthly meetings are scheduled one per month. Mr. JENKINS. Who pays this budget out of which you and all of these men get their pay? Mr. JONES. The operators. Mr. JENKINS. And it is paid according to the tons that they produce? Mr. JONES. That is right, in proportion to the tonnage. Mr. JENKINS. The big man pays a greater percentage than the little man? Mr. JONES. That is correct. Mr. JENKINS. Well, now, we have got that. Have you in your office a place or a system or somebody designated to wait on these people who come in with their complaints? Mr. JONES. Yes, sir. Mr. JENKINS. You have somebody? Mr. JONES. Yes, sir. Mr. JENKINS. This man who was here testified that he or somebody in his behalf was there and had not been treated very well. I just want to say this for myself, that I think it would be well if those of you who have charge of this big movement, and want it to succeed, it would be well if you would give the utmost consideration to the little man and to the consumer. I want to ask you in this connection: Questions were asked of you how, if you know how much the price has been increased, you are a man who has lots of experience in furnishing figures, and actuarial reports, could you not in the next few days get for us some statement that would indicate how much the price of coal has been increased, if it is commonly known in your industry, if you have such statistics anywhere that can be produced, we would like to know? Mr. JONES. I do not have such data. The Division itself might have it. Mr. JENKINS. You mean your Division? Mr. JONES. I mean the Division under the Guffey Act. Mr. JENKINS. Here in Washington? Mr. JONES. Yes, sir. Mr. JENKINS. You as the secretary-treasurer of your organization have never been required to compile that? Mr. JONES. That does not go through my office. Mr. JENKINS. I got a letter a day or two ago and I put it in the hearings, where he had a definite report, down to the cent, of every monthly of all of his monthly activities. He produced about 30,000 tons a month, as I remember, and he had just down to the penny all of his costs, and his selling price, and how much he had realized in that resepct, but you say that your constituents do not report to you under those circumstances? Mr. JONES. No; they do not. Mr. JENKINS. Let me ask you a few more questions, please: It seems to me it is a very strange disparity between the number of voters that participate in the election of your organization, as against the number that might vote. Is there any impediment placed in their way, as to why they cannot vote, or why they do not vote? Mr. JONES. Who cannot vote? Mr. JENKINS. I understood you to say that out of 2,100 members, constituent members of your organization, that only 300 of them voted. Mr. JONES. Oh, no; I said the entire group is invited to vote, the 2,100. Mr. JENKINS. How many did vote? Mr. JONES. I forget, at the last election, I would say that there were 200 people there probably a thousand represented. Mr. JENKINS. You think maybe a thousand? Mr. JONES. Maybe 1,500, at the last election we did not have 2,100. Mr. JENKINS. It has come to my attention Mr. JONES. There were about 1,500 at that time and there were probably 900 to 1,000 present, through proxies. Mr. JENKINS. I do not know how reliable this information is but I have some information that in some of these districts there is a good deal of electioneering going on and they go out and get the proxies of these little fellows and very frequently the little man's interests are not voted as he would like them to be voted, because of that use of proxies. Do you know anything about that? Is there anything that indicates itself to you that that had not been fair? Mr. JONES. I think it is absolutely open and aboveboard, and some men want to vote by proxy, and they do not all want to go to one point. It is a convenience. But I want to clarify one point concerning this district board, and its relationship with the small operator. I have persistently, and insistently demanded that everyone in our office must be particularly nice to the little fellow. Out of the 2,100 code members, this is the first time that I have ever had one man fail to make a complaint who wanted our help. Mr. JENKINS. It is natural that your board cannot grant to every person the price that he might want. Mr. JONES. No. Mr. JENKINS. Because you fixed those prices according to scientific investigations and measurements. Mr. JONES. We did the best we could. It may not be perfect, but the fellows did a good job. Mr. JENKINS. Let me ask you now, has there been any charge that the elections are not fair? Mr. JONES. Geographically, it is very finely spread. Mr. JENKINS. And I presume that while you have the 6,000,000ton represented on the board, you still will have the $12,000 man? Mr. JONES. Yes. Mr. JENKINS. He is represented on there? Mr. JONES. Yes, sir. Mr. JENKINS. Personally I want to be for this act, and I have always been for it. I should like to know whether or not there has been any friction in the board, that would indicate that there ought to be changes made. You cannot make changes in the act, but we can, and we would like to make the changes if they are needed to be made. You are a man of experience and I would like to have the benefit of your judgment. Mr. JONES. That question has not been formally discussed, but I am convinced, because of the few months of actual experience with the act, that they would not care to amend it at this time. I have discussed it with one man or another at different times. Mr. JENKINS. Now, just in this connection, let me ask you another question: You stated that it is your impression that the industry so far has not profited? Mr. JONES. That is true. I would say last year's accounts show very few companies in black ink. Mr. JENKINS. I want to say in that connection that the gentleman from whom I received the letters is one of the most astute coal men in my State. He does not live in my section at all but he showed a little profit. I think his letter said it is the first time in years he has made a profit, but he said that he had the finest statement of anybody in his district, that he had made more money per ton, as it were, than anybody in his district, and his profit had been 27 cents a ton. Mr. JONES. That is pretty good. Mr. JENKINS. As I get your information, as far as you know, nobody in your district has made anything like that? Mr. JONES. I would not say no, but I would say the district average has made nothing. There may be a little fellow here or there, who made a little money, but the district; no. Mr. JENKINS. This fellow who testified from your section said he would like to have this amended along this line, taking this basis, making run-of-mine coal the basis of all price fixing. What would you think of that? Mr. JONES. That might do. I am willing to draw the price pretty close together on slack and run-of-mine. Mr. JENKINS. Is not this the objection to that? Let me ask you this: What proportion of coal that is sold, is mine run, as against what is not mine run, and has been treated? Mr. JONES. Well, the last data that I have on that subject, was 50percent steam sizes, and about 50-percent run of mine. Mr. JENKINS. So the run of mine will be just about the same as that that has been treated? Mr. JONES. We do not treat much coal except for domestic purposes. Mr. JENKINS. I mean in sizes. Is your answer the same now, since you understand that? Mr. JONES. Yes, sir. Mr. JENKINS. You think that about half of the coal that is sold in the country is sold just as it comes out of the mine? Mr. JONES. I will speak for central Pennsylvania; I do not like to go into these places where they prepare their coal. Mr. JENKINS. The country coal, that is about all run of mine? Mr. JENKINS. Generally it is a lower grade of coal than the coal coming from other mines, as a general run, I think that that is safe to say, it is a little lower. This man took this position, and it struck me favorably. I am not going to make a speech about it at all but I thought maybe if we could in this act fix the basis as run of mine, then maybe we would answer the questions of the little fellows, because the majority of their coal is run of mine. Mr. JONES. When you take the large consumer today who is operating on powdered fuel, and if you made your run-of-mine price at the slack level, we all would have less money. Mr. JENKINS. Those who do size coal, would have their slack pile, which they could not do anything with? Mr. JONES. No. Mr. JENKINS. You would have that big amount of coal that you could not handle at all. Mr. JONES. We are short of slack. Mr. JENKINS. When they size their coal they increase their market. Some trades require nut coal, and some demand lump coal of one size and some require a different size. When the producer sizes his coal much of it goes to slack. He must dispose of this slack or he will lose, and he will find no place to pile his slack. He cannot sell all his output as run-of-mine so he must size it to meet all the trades. He also is better able to keep his mine operating. I think that that is all that I have to ask. The CHAIRMAN. The next witness is Mr. George W. Reed, of Chicago, representing the Peabody Coal Co. STATEMENT OF GEORGE W. REED, OF CHICAGO, ILL., REPRESENTING THE PEABODY COAL CO. The CHAIRMAN. Please give your name and address. Mr. REED. George W. Reed, Chicago, Ill. The CHAIRMAN. You have a prepared statement, I suppose? The CHAIRMAN. You prefer to give your written statement? Mr. REED. Thirty minutes. The CHAIRMAN. We would like to get through this afternoon if we We will recognize you for 30 minutes, and if you need more time we will try to give it to you. can. Mr. REED. I have been connected with the industry continuously since 1903. I have been with the Peabody Coal Co. since 1916. During my connection with that company, it has operated bituminous coal mines in Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia, Kentucky, Indiana, Illinois, Oklahoma, Wyoming, Washington, and Alberta, Canada, and has made shipments to almost every State in the Union. I was elected a member of the Coal Code Authority under the N. R. A. for the State of Illinois, and was later elected as chairman. I was elected a member of the board for the State of Illinois under the 1935 law and was later elected as chairman. I was elected a member under this present law, and was elected as chairman and acted as its chairman from its start in 1937 to the end of 1938, when I resigned. I appear in support of House Joint Resolution 101 and represent in this hearing 260 producing companies; production of 142,800,000 tons in 1940, and employing a total number of 137,455 men. (The names of the companies represented are as follows:) Washington, D. C., March 11, 1941. Coal-producing companies favoring extension of the Bituminous Coal Act of 1937 260 companies: for 2 years Tons produced, 1940-- 142, 836, 799 137, 455 List of companies favoring extension of the Bituminous Coal Act of 1937 for 2 years |