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The CHAIRMAN. Why? Mr. ROOSEVELT. Because the conditions are such now that proper administration is impossible.

The CHAIRMAN. That makes over 65 cents per square foot. The rate is 653 cents per square foot.

Mr. CANNON. Do they propose to operate this building?

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Yes, sir; and the total cost of operation would be very nearly $100,000.

Mr. CANNON. The lessor does that?

Mr. ROOSEVELT. The Navy Department does that; but that relieves us of the operation of certain other buildings that we are now operating

Mr. CANNON. Then the rent is net ?
Mr. ROOSEVELT. Yes, sir.
Mr. CANNON. What is the amount?
Mr. ROOSEVELT. $210,000 a year.

Mr. CANNON. And the heating, lighting, operation, and maintenance of the building will be at your own expense?

Mr. ROOSEVELT. In addition to the 320,000 square feet, we would get between 50,000 and 60.000 square feet of usable storage space in the first and second subbasements, and if you count that in the rental, it will bring it down to about 60 cents a square foot. Leaving that out, the rental is 65 cents per square foot net.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you expect to retain all the space you now have in the State, War, and Navy Building?

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Yes, sir; we expect to retain that in order to house the Secretary's office and the Division of Operations. We will use every room we now have.

The CHAIRMAN. How many persons are in those two offices—that is, in the Bureau of Operations and the Secretary's office?

Mr. Roosevelt. It would be hard to say. I can find out for you. The CHAIRMAN. There are 67,000 square feet of space in use there.

Mr. Cannon. What is to be the character of the finishings of this building?

Admiral Harris. The plans have not been completed, but it is to be a very good, substantial building.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. It is to be of concrete construction.

Admiral HARRIS. It will have concrete floors, and it will be fireproof. It will be something on the order of the Munsey Building.

Mr. Cannon. What is to be the character of the inside finishings wood finishings?

Admiral HARRIS. There will be very little wood finishings.
Mr. CANNON. The doors would be wooden?
Admiral HARRIS. No, sir.
Mr. Canxon. What about the doors?
Admiral Harris. I think they would be metal.

The CHAIRMAN. You had prior to the outbreak of the war about 88 persons in the Secretary's office and in the Division of Operations.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Yes, sir; and we have added probably 100 more since the outbreak of the war.

The CHAIRMAN. You do not need 67,000 square feet of space for 188 persons.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. We have the chief clerk's office there. .

The CHAIRMAN. I have included that. Mr. ROOSEVELT. We have my office, the Judge Advocate General, Naval Intelligence, and the General Board.

The CHAIRMAN. Give us a statement of the number of persons who will remain in there.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. I will do so. The offices remaining in the State, War, and Navy Building will be: Secretary's office; Assistant Secretary's office; chief clerk; operations, including communications; General Board; Intelligence; gunnery exercises; naval records and library; Judge Advocate General; Inspection Board; miscellaneous offices. The total number of persons employed in these offices is 452 at the present time. Estimated number within six months, 574.

The CHAIRMAN. You are going to move out of the Navy Annex Building?

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Yes, sir; we will turn that over to the War Department?

The CHAIRMAN. Will you move the hydrographic office out?

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Yes, sir; we will put them in the basement and on the first floor of the new building.

The CHAIRMAN. The last time they moved we had to spend money to strengthen the building for the presses.

Admiral HARRIS. This building is being designed for the purpose. I did not have anything to do with that.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not care who had anything to do with it, I know what happened. We had to strengthen the building because the presses could not go in there.

Will it not create a great deal of confusion to move that whole outfit from the Navy Annex Building!

Mr. ROOSEVELT. No, sir; it will be a great deal easier to move them out than for them to stay where they are at the present time, scattered all over the place.

The CHAIRMAN. How does it happen that the rent has jumped $10,000? Why did this proposed rental jump $10,000 a year?

Mr. ROOSEVELT. I did not know that it did.

The CHAIRMAN. You first asked for $200,000, and now it is $210,000.

Admiral HARRIS. The first figure asked for was $200,000, but it was based on a price of 50 cents per square foot gross area. They had not designed the building at that time, but since then they have laid out the building and designed it, and it works out $210,000. They wanted 50 cents per square foot gross, but it has been found that the building will now cost something like $600,000 over what it would have cost a year or so ago.

The CHAIRMAN. This was not a year or so ago, but a month or two ago. Admiral HARRIS. This was about four or five months ago. The CHAIRŇAN. It was not that long.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. As I understand it, when they came to the actual plans they found that they could get 20,000 square feet more within the building laws.

Admiral HARRIS. Yes; they found that they could get 20,000 square feet more than was originally contemplated. This was what was originally contemplated, but when they worked up the plans the space amounted to 420,000 square feet.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know how much the building will cost?

Admiral HARRIS. I have some general statements on it, but I have not got them here. I think the cost will be in the neighborhood of $2,000,000 for the building. I have the figures in my office, and can insert them.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you had under consideration any other proposals for buildings?

Mr. ROOSEVELT. We have had a great many other proposals under consideration for temporary buildings.

The CHAIRMAN. How many people do you want to house?
Mr. ROOSEVELT. I can not tell you offhand.

Admiral HARRIS. We can insert that in the hearings. I think probably it will be in excess of 2,000 people-probably 2,500 by the time the building is ready for occupancy.

The CHAIRMAN. In this new building?
Admiral HARRIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. I can add that the bureau estimates of the people whom it is proposed to put in this new building run considerably above the total floor space that this building will contain.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not see why. You say there will be about 2,000 people, and that would mean 160 square feet for each individual.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. A large part of this building will be occupied by the technical bureaus. Yards and Docks, Construction and Repair, and Steam Engineering have large drafting forces. About half of the bulk space used by those bureaus will be taken up by the drafting forces, and the clerical forces of the bureaus will occupy considerably less than 50 per cent of the area.

Admiral HARRIS. Yes, sir; the technical bureaus will occupy half of it.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. You can not figure it on the per capita başis, because the drafting rooms necessarily contain fewer men than the rooms occupied by the clerical forces.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you considered the possibility of utilizing the Census Building?

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Yes, sir; but that simply brings up the same difficulty we are in now.

The CHAIRMAX. What is that?

Mr. RoOSEVELT. It is too far away. We want to be in touch with the offices.

The CHAIRMAN. You can not slap them right up against each other. That is as close as the President is to Congress. Was that the only objection?

Mr. ROOSEVELT. It would take a great deal of remodeling and doing over

The CILAIRMAN. Only about a third of it is occupied, and it could be obtained, I suppose, for about $15,000.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. It would be unsuitable in a dozen different ways.
The CHAIRMAX. In what ways would it be unsuitable?
Mr. ROOSEVELT. How much space is there in it?
The C'ILAIRMAN. They have had 3,000 employees in it.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. That does not prove anything in our case, because our work is entirely different. If it has as much floor space as this building it would be large enough, but if it did not have the

proper light for the drafting rooms it would be unsuitable. Then the bureau chiefs would be to far away from the Secretary.

The CHAIRMAX. That is nothing.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Let me illustrate that: I figure that we have lost about a week in the actual operations of this war through the fact that many of the Navy Department's bureau chiefs are out of our building.

Mr. GILLETT. But you want to perpetuate that condition.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. The bureau chiefs will be out of the building; but it is not simply a case of the bureau chiefs meeting with the Secretary, but they must see each other constantly, and the Secretary will be able to have a definite hour in the day at which the bureau chiefs can come over to see him. Of course, personally I felt that it would be better for them to be all together, but it seems inadvisable to move the present communications of operations from the State, War, and Navy Building, because we have our radio on the roof.

The CHAIRMAN. Admiral, will you please furnish us with the cost of the building!

Admiral HARRIS. I will get the cost and also put in the cost of the property. The property is quite expensive. NOTE.-Building, $2,000,000 ; site, $1,300,000; total, $3,300,000.

TEMPORARY BUILDING ON WHITE LOT.

(See p. 908.) Mr. GILLETT. I would like to ask about the alternative of putting up a building on the White House lot. How much would that cost? Admiral HARRIS. I think we figured $350,000 for that at the time. Mr. GILLETT. It would accommodate how many?

Admiral HARRIS. The idea was that it would accommodate on the principal floor—there were to be two floors, as I recollect it—the idea was that it would accommodate on the principal floor the drafting rooms of the technical bureaus and some offices on the lower floor. How many people it would accommodate I can not state, but I think there would have been about 200,000 square feet.

The CHAIRMAN. In the whole building?

Admiral HARRIS. Yes, sir; and we would retain the Navy Annex and the temporary building and the space we had in the Navy Department.

Mr. GILLETT. That would accommodate your force ?
Admiral HARRIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. GILLETT. That would probably accommodate you and the Army, too!

Admiral Harris. No, sir; that was a different proposition. They would have to give us about 350,000 square feet of office space.

Mr. GILLETT. How much are you getting here in the Arlington Building?

Admiral HARRIS. In the Arlington Building we are getting 320,000 square feet, plus from 50,000 to 60,000 square feet in the two subbasements, plus 67,000 square feet in the State, War, and Navy Building.

Mr. GILLETT. Does that practically cover the lot?

Admiral HARRIS. No, sir: that leaves this space on I Street between the Lafayette Hotel and this projected building unoccupied. It will not be built up.

Mr. GILLETT. I do not quite understand your statement about the space between the Lafayette and the building being unoccupied. I am talking about the White House lot.

Admiral HARRIS. I am talking about the Arlington Building.
Mr. GILLETT. How much of the lot would be used?
Admiral HARRIS. I do not know how much.

Mr. GILLETT. I heard that there could be enough temporary buildings put up there at a comparatively small cost to accommodate both the War and Navy Departments, and that it could be done within a couple of months. Is that so?

Admiral Harris. We estimated that we could put up that building at that time in three months, and we will make the exterior sufficiently pleasing in appearance so that it will not shock the artistic sense of anybody. We would use hollow tile for the exterior walls with plaster and give it the appearance of the White House Office Building, with timber floors.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. There was a discussion about the end of April as to a large building to hold the surplus of the War and Navy Departments and also the State Department. I do not think any figures were ever obtained on that. Col. Harts would know.

Col. HARTS. We made some estimates on the cost of the construction, between $1.75 and $2 a square foot for the cheapest building. If you have 350,000 square feet it would cost close to $750,000.

Ådmiral Harris. We had only figured on 200,000 square feet at an estimated cost of $350,000.

Mr. GILLETT. About $1.50 a square foot!
Admiral HARRIS. About $1.75.

Mr. GILLETT. There is room to put up buildings that would accommodate all this work?

Col. Harts. You could build a three-story building, without elevators, and we could put up a building that would hold a tremendous number of clerks, putting in a head building with wings running south, which is the best arrangement to get the breeze and the light and by leaving space between the buildings. I have not figured it out, but that building would unquestionably accommodate as many people as the Navy already calculates for, and if you put on three stories there would be a great deal more room, I think it is safe to say, than you could get in the Arlington building, which is now under construction.

Mr. GILLETT. Is there any objection to that, except the use of the park?

Col. Harts. I do not know what other objection there might be beyond the ground of having a great deal of traffic around the White House. Of course, there is something in that. One of the greatest anxieties we have now is the safety of the President. We are protecting him by every possible means we can. This would introduce a new factor. How dangerous it would be I do not know.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. There is the other factor—the danger of fire. Mr. GILLETT. You would have sprinklers!

Col. Harts. A building of that kind would be a very dangerous building to erect without an adequate fire apparatus.

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