carried. It seems to me that what we are developing now is that instead of coming in with estimates for projects that are clearly under contingent, you are proposing to put other items into this contingent fund.

Admiral HARRIS. I was going to leave that to you gentlemen. I started to say once or twice that in discussing this with the Secretary we decided to leave it all under contingent, with the idea that it would be explained here, and that if you wanted to do so you could take it up or leave it out entirely and appropriate for it separately. There was no idea of concealing anything.

Mr. SHERLEY. We are not questioning that there is any attempt to hold something from the knowledge of the committee, but it is simply a question of policy. Apparently, instead of following your old plan, you determined to put these things in here and explain them to the committee, but it seems to me that is going to open up a very bad practice.

Admiral HARRIS. As a matter of fact, we even have not had time to make an estimate of what we will require in that district for cold storage; we started out with 1,000,000 pounds of meat but we have now gone to two or three million pounds, and the question came up, in a discussion yesterday, at a joint meeting that the Secretary arranged between the Army and Navy for the Hampton Roads district, as to whether we should put a large enough coldstorage plant on the Norfolk side to look after their requirements. The CHAIRMAN. What sort of a plant will this $300,000 furnish? Admiral HARRIS. The $300,000 was based on, I believe-and I will correct that later in my hearing, if I may-1,500,000 pounds of meat and certain quantities of fresh vegetables and eggs that I will have to give to you.

NOTE. The amount of storage to be provided for in the proposed cold storage at Jamestown is as follows: 2,000,000 pounds of meat; 1,500.000 pounds of vegetables; 250,000 pounds of butter; 50,000 dozen eggs; 50 tons of ice per day. Any storage requirements for room or transport service is in addition to these figures.

The CHAIRMAN. You stated that the facilities there were very poor. The Secretary was authorized to enter into a three-year contract for storage facilities last year. Has that been done?

Admiral HARRIS. I think they have taken all they had and can

get.

The CHAIRMAN. The amount was $16,000?

Admiral HARRIS. But that $16,000 was not for cold storage; that is for ordinary storage.

The CHAIRMAN. Ordinary storage?

Admiral HARRIS. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. And not for refrigeration?

Admiral HARRIS. No, sir; that is at Portsmouth, right next to the navy yard.

The CHAIRMAN. What does this mean in provisions for the number of men you will have there, and what period will be covered? A million and a half pounds of meat does not mean anything to me.

Admiral HARRIS. One pound and a half per man per day for 20,000 men, 10,000 in training and 10,000 in the fleet, would mean 30.000 pounds of meat, and that would be for 50 days.

The CHAIRMAN. That would be a 50-day supply for 20,000 men?

Admiral HARRIS. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. What are these buildings to be-concrete?
Admiral HARRIS. We have not worked them out at all.

The CHAIRMAN. How do you know, then, what they will cost? Admiral HARRIS. I just said, sir, that we had just made an approximate estimate, and that we did not know. We knew that we would have to provide cold-storage facilities in the Hampton Roads district. The exact amount, the plans of the buildings, and so forth, have not been worked out.

The CHAIRMAN. Would it not be better to work those out first, and then ask for the money?

Admiral HARRIS. If we worked it out, it would take weeks, perhaps, to come to you and start the thing.

The CHAIRMAN. There is no danger that we will be away.

Admiral HARRIS. It is the greatest difficulty for us now to foresee and plan anything in advance, because we do not know what the conditions will be, they are changing all the time.

The CHAIRMAN. This is something different. You are figuring on a permanent establishment at Hampton Roads; this is a permanent plant.

Admiral HARRIS. It would certainly be worth while to make the plans.

The CHAIRMAN. What you have in mind is a permanent plant, a refrigeration plant, in connection with the development of this station. We should know just what you propose. Maybe this is sufficient and maybe you should have more, but nobody can tell unless we get some information. What other item is there?

Admiral HARRIS. Perhaps you would want to put that in as a separate item. The plant we had been estimating on was for 3,000,000 pounds of meat and provisions, 1,500,000 pounds of meat. The reason that we considered a permanent form of construction was that we found that we could put up a temporary cold-storage plant, using timber walls and packing them with sawdust, but that the saving would only be about $50,000, because the principal expense is in the installation. That is, the machinery, the piping, etc., for the refrigeration. It appears to us that inasmuch as the plant that we figured on at $300,000 would represent largely a loss if put up temporarily, that it would be worth while to expend the additional $50,000 and make it a permanent plant. We have found that this plant, even with the commercial facilities at Norfolk, will not be large enough. The capacity of a refrigeration-supply ship is about 750,000 pounds of beef. Our latest information is that we must have cold-storage capacity, temporary or permanent, for about 3,000,000 pounds of meat, and also, in addition, for eggs, butter, and vegetables.

NEW YORK NAVY YARD STORAGE FACILITIES.

Admiral HARRIS. We have other items in the way of storage.

The CHAIRMAN. What are they; we want to know something about them?

Admiral HARRIS. We have this proposition at New York. The storage facilities now provided, even with the expansion, are absolutely inadequate. The yard is so crowded and congested that the

4400-17-17

industrial work, the repair work, and the building work can not continue except at great disadvantage. We have to make some arrangement to take care of the great increase in the quantity of stores coming into that yard. We have confronting us there the placing of some storehouses on three plots of property belonging to the city, between the market and Clinton Avenue, which the city has given the Navy Department permission to use.

The CHAIRMAN. Temporary structures?

Admiral HARRIS. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What is it contemplated that they will cost? Admiral HARRIS. We have no complete estimate. The yard's last estimate was $150,000.

The CHAIRMAN. How much storage will that give?

Admiral HARRIS. I think that gives about 200,000 square feet of storage. That is for general supplies.

BROOKLYN, N. Y., STORAGE FACILITIES.

Down at South Brooklyn, Thirty-fifth Street, where we have established a clothing and provision depot, we require about 500,000 square feet more of storage.

The CHAIRMAN. How much have you?

Admiral HARRIS. The storage which we have there on the pier and at the Bush Terminal storehouse, I think, amounts to about 350,000 square feet.

The CHAIRMAN. What have you, concrete storehouses?

Admiral HARRIS. I am not sure. They are some permanent storehouses which we have rented, the only ones existing, and the city pier which we have rented.

The CHAIRMAN. How do you propose to get the 500,000 square feet?

Admiral HARRIS. By putting up temporary timber buildings on the marginal space, the city having given us permission. There will be stored down there more than $12,000,000 worth of clothing, without the provision stores.

Mr. SHERLEY. That will be a pretty large fire risk?

Admiral HARRIS. To some extent; but we will attempt to look after that with extinguishers, special hose lines, and sprinklers, which will be installed in these temporary buildings. That is apparently the only way in which we can secure the storage.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the estimated cost of the storage?
Admiral HARRIS. Between $400,000 and $500,000.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you pay for the storage you have there now?

Admiral HARRIS. The rent?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir.

Admiral HARRIS. $10,000 per month for the city pier.

The CHAIRMAN. And for the storage?

Admiral HARRIS. I will have to inspect that, I do not know.

NOTE. The following properties are now rented in the vicinity of the Thirtyfifth Street pier: Pier. $125,000 per annum; two lots of storage in Bush Power Terminal buildings, 50,000 square feet at $18,000 per annum, 180,000 square feet at $54,000 per annum.

The CHAIRMAN. It might be cheaper to rent the warehouses. Admiral HARRIS. I think we have rented all that they can rent. I am to have a conference with the Assistant Secretary. The plans have just come to-day from New York.

The CHAIRMAN. They have special concrete warehouses?

Admiral HARRIS. They are all crowded and taken. We have rented all we can in the vicinity, and they must put up temporary buildings.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. I am trying to avoid putting up those buildings. We will rent, if it is possible. That is a matter that I am looking into. I feel that we should have the money in case we can not rent. The CHAIRMAN. What else is there, Admiral?

PHILADELPHIA, PA., TEMPORARY SUBMARINE BASE-ADDITIONAL BUILD

INGS.

Admiral HARRIS. We know that we must make some expenditure at Philadelphia for a temporary submarine base.

The CHAIRMAN. How much?

Admiral HARRIS. I have estimated that they will probably want $175,000.

The CHAIRMAN. What have they there now?

Admiral HARRIS. They put a temporary building on what was part of pier D, with the idea of using one side. Admiral Grant says that he must have the other side. The other side is not deep enough and we will have to dredge it. He also wants a number of additional buildings. He has not given me the details as to what he

wants.

The CHAIRMAN. What else?

INCREASING FACILITIES FOR BUILDING SMALL BOATS.

Admiral HARRIS. There is another item that has come up. At the Philadelphia Navy Yard they want some provision for building small boats. They have a boat shop which was adequate for normal needs, but it is impossible to take care of the boats and build them and get them out. There is no place to put them under shelter, and when the sun strikes them they just open up.

Mr. SHERLEY. What kind of small boats are they building?

Admiral HARRIS. They are building launches and various small boats, pulling boats, etc.

Mr. SHERLEY. They have always done that?

Admiral HARRIS. Yes, sir; and repairing them, too.

Mr. SHERLEY. You are building in larger quantity than heretofore?

Admiral HARRIS. Yes, sir; we have to. We have a large demand for small boats, not alone for the ships, but for training purposes.

BUILDING, STORAGE, AND REPAIRING.

The CHAIRMAN. You want to increase your facilities at Philadelphia?

Admiral HARRIS. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How much will that cost?

Admiral HARRIS. I do not know. I have estimated it at $185,000. The CHAIRMAN. What are they-sheds or shops or what?

Admiral HARRIS. Our idea was to try to roof the space between the boat shop and the adjacent building-roof those in, close the endsand make arrangements to take care of the expansion in that way. The CHAIRMAN. What would that be for, storage?

Admiral HARRIS. For building, storage, and repairing.
The CHAIRMAN. What else?

ADDITIONAL STORAGE FACILITIES AT VARIOUS YARDS AND STATIONS.

Admiral HARRIS. I have here a general statement of the additional temporary storage facilities to be required at the various yards and stations.

The CHAIRMAN. How much?

Admiral HARRIS. I have not any account of that.

The CHAIRMAN. How do you get the total?

Admiral HARRIS. I did the best I could by guessing; that is the only explanation I can give.

The CHAIRMAN. That would be $500,000 or $600,000 or more unexpended?

Admiral HARRIS. I think we have expended up to July 1 over $700,000. We must anticipate that things like that are going to keep on. Seven hundred thousand dollars for the quarter, and with four quarters in the year would make $2,800,000. We have four quarters from July 1, and that would make $2,800,000.

The CHAIRMAN. That reasoning will not work out at all, because you have three or four big items, one of $300,000 for a permanent cold-storage plant, and you can not figure that as a constant recurring thing.

Admiral HARRIS. That is the only way to estimate on contingencies.

The CHAIRMAN. You have not estimated this as a contingent item really; what you have done is to bring into this at least one item that is in no sense contingent, but permanent.

WEDNESDAY, JULY 25, 1917.

TEMPORARY HOSPITAL CONSTRUCTION.

STATEMENT OF REAR ADMIRAL WILLIAM C. BRAISTED, SURGEON GENERAL, UNITED STATES NAVY.

The CHAIRMAN. The next item is "Hospital construction," $2,200,000?

Dr. BRAISTED. At a former hearing I explained pretty thoroughly the needs of the Medical Department, and at that time I told you that I estimated it would cost about $3,200,000 to build what we needed. As you know, $1,000,000 was allotted for that purpose. We have now under construction and have contracted for and contemplated to do work amounting to $3,115,000, which comes very near to that estimate.