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erated, but no agreement has been reached in regard to the large one, and we are not anywhere near an agreement. It was proposed that we pay them a certain percentage of the actual cost of construction of those stations, but that has not been agreed to.

Mr. Canxon. Were these small stations that you speak of really engaged in business for profit?

Admiral GRIFFIN. They were in use by the Marconi Co. as a part of their chain of stations. Some of them were run at a loss and were not profitable, but they did have them in operation and had their men stationed there to operate them when necessary:

Mr. Canxon. There were a great many private stations belonging to people who were experimenting, and you closed them up?

Admiral GRIFFIN. Yes; they were experimental stations.
Mr. Canxox. Are you proposing to pay for those ?
Admiral GRIFFIN. No, sir; they were not commercial stations.

Mr. GILLETT. When you take a station and close it do you have a guard there to control it?

Admiral GRIFFIN. Yes, sir; we have our own people there. Mr. GILLETT. So they do not have to keep it up at all. You do all of that?

Admiral GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. SHERLEY. What investment do these small stations represent?
Admiral GRIFFIN. I do not know that.
Mr. SHERLEY. I mean approximately?

Admiral GRIFFIN. I could give you the figure they put in, which, I suppose, for the small ones was not over $20,000-$15,000 or $20,000 ought to cover the small stations.

Mr. SHERLEY. Then, you are paying them over 6 per cent on their investment?

Admiral GRIFFIN. Yes; if my figure is correct.

The following figures represent the approximate value of the stations that have been taken over-those for the high-power Marconi stations being the value of the investment given by that company: Marconi high-power stations..

$2,694, 700 Marconi small stations---

600, 000 Sayville station

500,000 Tuckerton station --

400, 000 Federal Telegraph Co---

350, 000

4, 494, 700

INTERCOASTAL COMMUNICATION.

The CHAIRMAN. What else have you, Admiral?

Admiral GRIFFIN. $150,000 for completion of coastal communication system connecting the lighthouses and other stations along the coast.

The CHAIRMAN. We have already appropriated $300,000 for that.
Admiral GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. What has been done so far!

Admiral GRIFFIN. They have gotten the material and are proceeding with the work of installation.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you complete it for the $150,000?

Admiral GRIFFIN. The $150,000 additional will do all that we have in contemplation now.

The CHAIRMAN. What else have you!

Admiral GRIFFIN. $200,000 is estimated for new radio stations at Panama.

The CHAIRMAN. Admiral, there is a specific appropriation for this coastal communication of $300,000.

Admiral GRIFFIN. Under the Coast Guard of the Treasury, was it not?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; are you doing that work?
Admiral GRIFFIN. No, sir; they are doing it.
The (CHAIRMAN. Are you to go on now and do some of it?
Admiral Griffin. We are to furnish $150,000 to complete it.
The CHAIRMAN. Who is going to do the work?

Admiral GRIFFIN. We contemplate that the Coast Guard will do the work.

The CHAIRMAN. The Coast Guard has been taken into the naval service?

Admiral GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that appropriation being expended by the Navy Department or by the Treasury Department?

Admiral GRIFFIN. The Coast Guard people are handling it.

The CHAIRMAN. Then it is being expended under the Navy Department?

Admiral GRIFFIN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Then, how can you spend out of this lump appropriation any money for that purpose when there is a specific appropriation for it?

Admiral GRIFFIN. Under the appropriation we have for coast signal service. The CHAIRMAN. Is that included in this? Admiral GRIFFIN. That is included in our general appropriation.

The CHAIRMAN. The comptroller has repeatedly ruled that where a specific appropriation is available for a purpose you can not spend money out of a lump appropriation.

Admiral GRIFFIN. I think that question has come up a number of times in connection with the coast signal service.

The CHAIRMAN. In this provision you have authority for maintenance and operation of coast signal service!

Admiral GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And that is the authority under which you do this?

Admiral GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And with this additional $150,000 you would complete all that is contemplated ?

Admiral GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.

RADIO STATIONS AT PANAMA.

The CHAIRMAN. What else is there?

Admiral GRIFFIN. We have an estimate of $200,000 for three new radio stations at Panama.

The CHAIRMAN. Where are they to be locateil ?

Admiral GRIFFIN. One of them is considered to be of strategic importance and is on a point of land which controls the approach to the canal on the Pacific side. The other two stations are stations which it was contemplated erecting in Panama.

The CHAIRMAN. That applies to the two? Admiral GRIFFIN. Yes. As to the other one, our people on the Isthmus think it is necessary in order to warn of approaches to the canal on the Pacific side. The CHAIRMAN. Is it to be a sort of watch-tower station? Admiral GRIFFIN. Yes; to notify of vessels approaching the canal.

SEARCHLIGHTS AND FIRE-CONTROL MATERIAL.

The CHAIRMAN. What else is there? Admiral GRIFFIN. We have an estimate of $2,000,000 for searchlights and fire-control material for anticraft-defense stations. These are stations being established at different navy yards and navy stations, and the Bureau of Steam Engineering is concerned in the equipment of them with searchlights and the fire-control apparatus.

The CHAIRMAN. How much did you get in the naval bill for this purpose

Admiral GRIFFIN. This is something entirely new. We had nothing for this in the regular bill. This is something that has come up since then, and for which no estimates were made.

Mr. SHERLEY. Admiral, how many guns are you proposing to equip with range finders?

Admiral GRIFFIN. I do not know. I do not have anything to do with that. That is under the Bureau of Ordnance.

Mr. SHEKLEY. But you are submitting this estimate.

Admiral GRIFFIN. But not for range finders. This is for firecontrol apparatus. These are signal apparatus.

Mr. SHERLEY. A range finder is a fire-control apparatus, and that is what I thought you meant.

Admiral GRIFFIN. No; we don not consider that a fire-control apparatus. That is a part of the gun sighting and aiming.

Mr. SHERLEY. What do you mean by fire-control apparatus-base lines on an observation station?

Admiral Griffin. No; just the electrical apparatus for communicating the distance and the bearing, and all that. Mr. SHERLEY. Well, you must get that from observation stations. Admiral GRIFFIN. Yes. Mr. SHERLEY. Have you got those stations established ?

Admiral Griffin. They are being established now. They will be established when we get this money.

Mr. SHERLEY. That is just what I asked you, whether it was for the establishment of base lines for range finders.

Admiral GRIFFIN. I did not understand what you meant by base lines.

Mr. SHERLEY. I was using the technical term which they use in land defenses.

Admiral GRIFFIN. This is merely for the electrical apparatus for signaling and the searchlights for observing and trying to detect the aircraft.

Mr. SHERLEY. Admiral, will you put in your hearing more of a detailed statement as to your cost?

Admiral GRIFFIN. Yes, sir. NOTE.-The estimate for fire-control apparatus includes: 180 searchlights, at $5,000 each.

$900,000 360 camp type telephones, at $90.

32, 400 Underground cable work, estimated at $1 per foot.

400, 000 120 electric generator sets, at $5,000

600, 000 100 airplane detectors, at $1,000 each..

100, 000 90 salvo systems, at $10 each.-

3, 600 Total

2, 036, 000

STORAGE BATTERIES FOR SUBMARINES.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the next one?

Admiral GRIFFIX. The next one is $2,500,000 for thin-plate storage batteries for submarines. We contemplate buying 50 thin-plate batteries. They cost about $50,000 each. The purpose in this is to give the submarine a wider range of action and also a longer sustained high speed than is possible with the usual type of battery. They do not last very long, but they are desirable from the fact that they have greater capacity. In other words, instead of having a battery with one fairly thick plate we have a battery with twice the number of thinner plates, which will expose a larger surface to the action of the acid but will reduce the life of the battery very much.

The CHAIRMAN. What would be the life of one of those batteries?
Admiral GRIFFIN. Not over two years.
The CHAIRMAN. Have you used any of them so far?
Admiral GRIFFIN. We are now installing one.

MAINTENANCE OF VESSELS AT FOREIGN STATIONS. The CHAIRMAN. What else is there?

Admiral GRIFFIN. $1,500,000 on account of maintenance of our vessels on foreign stations. This is really the increased expenditure which we estimate will be necessary on account of having the ships abroad instead of at home. We have found it necessary already to buy a much larger stock of materials than we would think of buying if the ships were kept at home.

Mr. GILLETT. What kind of material?

Admiral GRIFFIN. Shafting, propellers, and consumable stores generally; but the large expenditures come in propeller shafting and propellers. We get information from the British that they have had a great many casualties of that kind in their destroyers, and we are simply making provision to meet those casualties.

The CHAIRMAN. When our vessels that are abroad have to have repair work on them are those repairs made by our own people, or do we have them made abroad and pay for them?

Admiral GRIFFIN. Everything that can possibly be done by our own people is performed by them. For instance, we have two repair ships over there with the destroyers, and as far as possible they do all the work. So far there has been no work on machinery which necessitated any dockyard help. Our ships have been able to handle it, but there has been other work that the dockyard had to be called in for.

REPAIRS OF TRANSPORTS.

(See p. 299.)

The CHAIRMAN. You say that $2,160,000 of this money is for repairs to transports taken over?

Admiral GRIFFIN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Those were vessels that had already been taken possession of by the Army?

Admiral GRIFFIN. Some had been and some came from the Shipping Board. We had first 14 German ships turned over to the Navy. Then recently we had 16 others of the large ships turned over to us by the War Department as transports, making 30. Those had been assigned to the War Department for transport service. Yesterday or the day before we had 14 other Army transports turned over to us. In other words, the Navy is going to handle the transport service.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know under what authority the Army transports are turned over to the Navy!

Admiral GRIFFIN. No, sir; I do not.

The CHAIRMAN. Have they tried to turn over the money that has been given them to maintain the transports at the same time?

Admiral GRIFFIN. No, sir; there has been no question about that at all. We were told that the transports would be operated by the Navy, and that we should go ahead and get them in condition for service. So we are proceeding along that line.

THURSDAY, JULY 26, 1917. STATEMENT OF PAYMASTER C. J. PEOPLES, ACCOMPANIED BY MR.

CLYDE REED, CIVILIAN ASSISTANT.

BUREAU OF SUPPLIES AND ACCOUNTS, MAINTENANCE-WINTER CLOTHING.

The CHAIRMAN. “Bureau of Supplies and Accounts.” Maintenance: For maintenance, Bureau of Supplies and Accounts” $4,500,000, for which you have $6,250,000 ? Paymaster PEOPLES. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You ask for $4,500,000 additional ?

Paymaster PEOPLES. Yes, sir. The reason for that, sir, is this: For a number of years the question of heavy-weight clothing has been under consideration in the Navy, as to types, kinds of clothing, and all that sort of thing, but the policy of keeping the fleet in warm waters has not necessitated the use of very heavy-weight clothing. The prospects of a winter's campaign, however, in extremely cold waters necessitates unusual weights of clothing from the inner garments out. The Commander in Chief has recommended, and the Bureau of Navigation has approved, certain types of clothing based upon the experience of the English.

The English fleet find in operating in the northern latitudes during the winter months, even commencing now, that the nights are very

4400—17-20

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