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The CHAIRMAX. Were not they included in the original estimates! Capt. M.RSHALL. No, sir.

HEAT AND LIGHT FOR HOSPITALS AT CANTONMENTS.

The CHAIRMAN. Heating and lighting hospital buildings at 16 cantonments, $1,690,000?

Capt. MARSHALL. That is to be used in conjunction with the appropriation for construction and repair of hospitals. This appropriation bears the same relation to hospitals that the barracks and quarters do to barracks. The total cost of the hospitals for the 16 cantonments will be between $8,000,000 and $9,000,000. The estimate recently submitted, if I recollect correctly, was $2,014.000, but the Surgeon General's oflice has put into these hospitals a thousand beds with all the accessories, at these cantonments, and that runs the price up to almost $9,000,000, including all the appropriations that go into the construction of those hospitals.

The Cu \IRMAN. That is, heating and lighting buildings to house about 16,000 patients?

Capt. MARSHALL. Yes, sir. Then there are the operating wards and laundries, the sterilizers, and the whole layout, which is quite complete, modern, and up to date. The representatives from the Surgeon General's office can better explain that. The hospital outfit, my recollection is, covers a space of about 20 acres.

The CHAIRMAN. Is not that a very high price_$100 a bed-to heat a hospital? That is the way it figures.

Capt. MARSHALL. I can give you the cubic contents. Steam heating runs just about two and a half or three times as much as it used to. Radiation is about 40 cents, when it used to be 20 or 22 cents. The same way with boilers and steel piping and other material. Boilers that we used to pay $1,600 for we now pay about $3,000.

ELECTRIC LIGHT AND POWER PLANTS AT NATIONAL GUARD CAMPS.

Guard camps.

The CHAIRMAN. Electric lighting and power plants at camps for the National Guard, $800,000. Is that due to this proposed change?

Capt. MARSIIALL. No, sir. The National Guard is now going into camp. The CHAIRMAN. Is that due to this proposed change?

Capt. MARSHALL. No, sir; that is what they are doing now. They are going into camp. After they get into camp, we propose to put one lamp in each tent and to light the streets, mess shelters, kitchens, latrines, and showers. This is for that purpose for the 16 National

The CHAIRMAX. How many men will there be in those camps?
Capt. MARSHALL. Something over 35,000 in each one.
The CHAIRMAN. Does this include heat?
Col. LITTELL. No, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there any provision for heat!

Col. LITTELL. If they stay there during the winter they will have to have tent stoves.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you made any provision for them!

Col. LITTELL. They are provided for under regular supplies by the supply division. We do not estimate for those, and the same is true of tentage. We make no estimate for the tentage.

The CHAIRMAN. They are issued just as necessity requires!
Col. LITTELL. Yes, sir; just like tents and any other camp equipage.
The CHAIRMAN. At all of these camps is there a power plant built!

Capt. MARSHALL. No, sir; that is just the language of the appropriation. You understand, we have to build transmission lines in most cases. No power plants at all are to be constructed.

The CHAIRMAN. The purpose is to purchase the power!

Capt. MARSHALL. Yes; to purchase the power from the towns in each case.

Col. LITTELL. They bring it up to the reservation.

Capt. MARSHALL. We will have to distribute it throughout the reservation.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there sufficient power within reach of all these camps ?

Capt. MARSHALL. Yes, sir. The amount of power used at the camps is relatively small.

The CHAIRMAN. I refer to the power for lighting. Capt. MARSHALL. It will run approximately one-sixth of what it will be at the cantonments.

The CHAIRMAN. I am speaking now generally of the camps and cantonments. Is there within reach of all of them sufficient power from local enterprises!

Capt. MARSHALL. In every case; yes, sir.

COAST ARTILLERY CANTONMENTS-HEATING AND LIGHTING.

The CHAIRMAN. You are asking $325,000 for heat and light at the Coast Artillery cantonments.

Col. LITTELL. They are cantonment buildings built right in the Coast Artillery posts to supplement the barracks.

The CHAIRMAN. How many have we!

Col. LITTELL. Almost every Coast Artillery post will have extra Coast Artillery militia, which we have to provide for.

The CHAIRMAN. The purpose is to put in these localities where we have defenses temporary quarters for the troops called in?

Col. LITTELL. Yes, sir; to take care of the National Guard.

WIRING STOREHOUSE AT GOVERNORS ISLAND.

The CHAIRMAN. Then there is an item of $25,000 for wiring at Governors Island quartermaster storehouse.

Col. LITTELL. They are going to build a number of new storehouses at Governors Island for the New York depot.

The CHAIRMAN. Temporary or permanent ?

Col. LITTELL. Semipermanent. They are going to put quite a number on that new fill.

CONVERSION OF NATIONAL GUARD CAMPS INTO CANTONMENTS.

(See p. 406.)

The CHAIRMAN. Then there is an item of $18,380,000 to change the National Guard camps to cantonments.

Col. LITTELL. Yes, sir; we made our estimates for those camps as we were instructed, and then afterwards we were told to so arrange

these camps that they could be changed into cantonments, and then we got instructions to submit an estimate to convert the camps into cantonments. The CHAIRMAN. When were those instructions issued !

Col. LITTELL. A few days before the date of these estimates. It was along about the 8th of July.

The CHAIRMAN. The Secretary of War stated yesterday that the National Guard troops were to go into the camps.

Col. LITTELL. They are, Mr. Fitzgerald, and that is what we are preparing now; but we were told to prepare and submit an estimate for converting them later on into cantonments. I suppose the War Department has some idea that they would use these camps for the same purpose, possibly, that they are using the National Army cantonments.

The CHAIRMAN. The Secretary stated that they would not; that the army would be there a comparatively brief time, and that the National Guard camps would not be used any more.

Col. LITTELL. We certainly had these instructions.
The CHAIRMAN. From whom did your instructions come?

Col. LITTELL. From the Chief of Staff. My memorandum here,
Mr. Fitzgerald, refers to a memorandum of the Chief of Staff dated
the 13th of July and refers to a particular paragraph.
The CHAIRMAN. Have you got what it says there?

Col. LITTELL. I have not got their memorandum, but my memorandum says, “ Referring to memorandum of Chief of Staff dated July 13, 1917, in regard to construction work at National Guard provisional training camps, and referring particularly to paragraph E thereof." Evidently from the context which follows that recommendation is based on something that the War College division submitted.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, these National Guard camps were located, as I recall, so that the climatic conditions would be such that they would be able to get open-air training for the time they would be there, which would not be long, and after that they were not to be required. Now, after they have located them, it is proposed to change the character of the quarters so as to make them of a semipermanent character !

Col. LITTELL. Yes, sir; like the others.
The CHAIRMAN. They are working both ways in doing that?

Col. LITTELL. We, of course, presumed that they were going to make continuous use of the camps.

The CHAIRMAN. The Secretary stated here yesterday that they were not.

Col. LITTELL. We have the memorandum; that is all we can go by.

The CHAIRMAN. You say you are preparing the camps for these men now?

Col. LITTELL. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. When were they to go into them?

Col. LITTELL. Some of them were to go into them on the 1st of August, which would be to-morrow, but owing to the fact we were told not to do anything to the camps--that is, the department commanders were told not to go on with the leasing of the necessary

ground until they got further instructions-and owing to the fact that that was delayed, we have not had sufficient time to get them ready by the 1st of August.

The CHAIRMAN. When will they be ready?

Col. LITTELL. Probably the first of them will be ready about the 8th of August.

The CHAIRMAN. For all the guard?
Col. LITTELL. No, sir; not for all of them, but for some of them.
The CHAIRMAN. When will they all be ready?
Col. LITTELL. Some ought to be ready about the 15th.
The CHAIRMAN. The 15th of August!

Col. LITTELL. Yes, sir. They will all not be ordered out at the same time.

The CHAIRMAN. Then you will prepare the camps and provide tents and some semipermanent buildings?

Col. LITTELL. Yes; we furnish shelter for the mess halls and kitchens, and they are screened; and also shelter for the latrines and baths; and then there are 10 big storehouses at each place.

The CHAIRMAN. And then it is proposed to replace the tents with the cantonment buildings?

Col. LITTELL. Yes, sir. The great difficulty about getting these first camps ready, Mr. Fitzgerald, is the fact that it is almost impossible to get iron pipe. We can not get it right off. The cities near which the camps are located promised water from their city works, and in order to do that they have got to get the water up to the reservation, and they have got to get iron pipe, and they can not get it and neither can we, and that is delaying it.

The CHAIRMAN. I am not finding fault, but am simply trying to find out something about when these camps will be ready.

Col. LITTELL. You were asking about when they were going to be opened?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes. I wanted to find out when it was expected they would be ready. I saw a statement that the local troops were to report at Anniston on the 9th of August, and I suppose that camp will be ready.

Col. LITTELL. Anniston is a Government reservation, and there has been some work done there, so they will probably go ahead a little faster than the others.

The CHAIRMAN. How much are these National Guard camps to cost?

Capt. MARSHALL. About $1,200,000, on an average.

The CHAIRMAN. That would be $17.200,000. Now, to change them into cantonments requires $18,320,000?

Col. LITTELL. The cantonments average about $5,000,000.

Capt. MARSIIALL. That is, under this particular appropriation. The total amount will be $94,111,000, including the other appropriations involved.

The CHAIRMAX. I want to get the cost of the camps.

Capt. DALY. To convert them from camps to cantonments will cost $91,111.000.

The CHAIRMAN. I want to first get the cost of the camps and then what it will cost to transform them.

Capt. MARSHALL. The total cost of transforming the camps and the cost of the camps also

The CHAIRMAN (interposing). No; I want first the cost of the camps.

Capt. MARSHALL. $19,331,000 for the camps.

The CHAIRMAX. And how much additional to transform them into cantonments?

Capt. MARSHALL. $74,780,000.

Mr. Sisson. The cost of your camp will be what, per man, irrespective of the number of men you may have?

Capt. MARSHALL. It would be $31 or $32 a man.

Mr. Byrns. Is it proposed to turn all these camps into cantonments?

Col. LITTELL. Our instructions were to make an estimate for doing that.

Capt. MARSHALL. We understand the idea to be that they will be used for the next increment of the National Army, but we have nothing official on that. That seems to be the current rumor.

Mr. Sisson. I have here an estimate made by Lieut. Col. Dalton of the Army, in which he shows the comparative cost per man between the camp and the cost of wooden barracks complete; that is, just housing the men in the barracks and housing the men in the tents. The lumber is estimated to cost about $35 per thousand, and he figures that the cost simply of housing the men, having nothing to do with the mess halls and the hospitals, etc., and counting seven men in a tent, an actual expense of $12.93. That includes the electric lighting also. The $35 a thousand includes the cost of the wooden housing of the soldiers, and that cost per man is $14.50.

Now, in those places where the lumber is delivered without freight, delivered from the mill, to house a man will cost actually a little less in the cantonment than in the tents, and the average life of a tent he estimates to be about six months, with the ordinary Army use, so that you would pay with the camp $12.93 or $25.80 a year to house a man, whereas under the wooden cantonments, just for the housing alone at $35 a thousand for the lumber it would be $14.50, and the cantonment becomes reasonably certain to outlast the war. Therefore I am at a loss, with these figures, to know why we should duplicate the cost unless the question of obtaining lumber should cut a considerable figure in getting the camps ready.

Capt. MARSHALL. I do not believe any costs will be duplicated. Those tents will be folded up and presumably become a part of the equipment of those troops.

Mr. Sisson. Well, the life of a tent, with regular Army use, is about six months, taking the effect of the weather and the use, and so on, and I imagine that is a pretty long life for a tent, and therefore you would have to replace the tents every six months.

In those places where the lumber is right in the immediate vicinity, and you can get it delivered for about $22.50 a thousand, you will house each man cheaper for six months in the cantonments than you could house him in a tent, and if you keep him 12 months it will cost twice as much to supply the tents as it will to supply the cantonments. Then in the tents, according to the Army standard, each man would get in an Army standard tent 256 feet of floor space and 1,404 cubic feet of air space, in a pyramidal tent, whereas in the cantonment each man would get 320 feet of floor space and 3,200 cubic feet

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