like the other fieldpieces. In order to do that we always put in the word "mounts."

Mr. SHERLEY. How much of this sum, General, do you contemplate using for the 1-pounders?

Gen. CROZIER. Including the estimate of 30 per cent for spare parts and maintenance, the sum will be about $13,000,000.

Perhaps I might say this: The machine-gun board, consisting of officers of various branches of the service and two civilians, which was appointed early last autumn and submitted its final report in June, considered about 18 different types of guns which were submitted for tests, of which 8 types went clear through the prescribed.

tests.

*

The board reported that the Browning water-cooled gun was, in their opinion, shown to be "superior to any other of the so-called heavy water-cooled types known to the board"; that the Vickers water-cooled gun was shown to be "a very efficient weapon"; that the Lewis machine gun passed a highly satisfactory test, and that "the mechanism of this gun has been under continual development since it was last tested by the War Department * ** several improvements have been made in this gun this justified the delay of the War Department in according complete recognition to this weapon"; that the Browning light gun gave a remarkable performance for one of its type, saying, "This weapon, owing to its great portability and its remarkable performance, can be considered in a class of its own."

*

*

Mr. SHERLEY. General, has the department availed itself of the manufacturing capacity of all types of guns which this board reported as having passed all its tests?

Gen. CROZIER. I stated, you will remember, that guns of eight types completed the prescribed tests, but I did not state anything about the satisfactory performance of the guns. All the others were withdrawn before going through the tests at all at some stage; that is, they gave it up at some stage. The board did not report that all the eight types satisfactorily passed the tests. As I stated a few minutes ago, we are contemplating using all the machine-gun capacity in the country, and we are not leaving unemployed any such manufacturing capacity because of its being equipped only for the manufacture of one of the types which was not selected.

Mr. SHERLEY. To put it another way, you are using the maximum supply of the country?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir. Some of the stop-gap guns of which I have spoken, being of the earlier models and recognized by everybody as not up to the later models, are not being built from the beginning as rapidly as the plants producing might turn them out, but we propose to use those same plants fully by adapting them to the manufacture of modern guns, which will take a little time. In this case— for there is only one-the old type or outclassed gun which can be built is of the heavy type, for which the demand is much less than the light type, to the manufacture of which we will convert the plant.

ARMORED MOTOR CARS.

The CHAIRMAN. The next item is, "Armored motor cars." had $5,400,000 and you are asking for $21,750,000. Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir.

You have

The CHAIRMAN. What are you doing with the appropriation already made and why do you ask for so much more?

Gen. CROZIER. This is intended to cover three classes of armored vehicles, the machine-gun motor cycle, the armored automobile, and what is popularly known as the tank. Our experience down on the border and the reports which we have had of the experience in Europe do not tend to a very high idea of the machine-gun motor cycle. Probably we shall not make very many of them, unless there should be an unexpected revival of the estimate in which they are held. The CHAIRMAN. You mean the machine-gun motor cycle? Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the one which your experience did not lead you to think much of?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir. The armored and armed automobile has also not proved of any great value, according to most of the reports which we have received. The reports, however, have indicated that the engine called the tank has come to stay and has proved of considerable value. It is necessary, therefore, to provide for this general class of vehicle, but we have not made any very definite program of expenditure, and I do not think one ought to be made at the present time. The object of this estimate is to provide funds for going ahead with this on a small scale, the most promising of them, and for then continuing any program which may be reasonably expected to turn out to be a good one.

The CHAIRMAN. You have eliminated two-thirds of the devices which this appropriation is to provide, and you are not very enthusiastic over the third; $26,000,000 or $27,000,000 seems to be a lot of money just to tinker with.

Gen. CROZIER. Well, Mr. Chairman, if we should learn after this bill was passed that we had not given proper value to these things, and something should come up indicating a greater value than we now think is absolutely demonstrated, and we should have to go through the same kind of processes that we are going through now in matters with regard to which we have reached a definite conclusion, very considerable progress might be made in the war before we could reach the value that I think we might give.

The CHAIRMAN. What are these tank-cars armed with-5-inch or 3-inch guns?

Gen. CROZIER. They go up as high as 3-inch guns. They have gone up as high as the short, light 3-inch gun of what we call the howitzer type. They are sometimes called mountain howitzers.

The CHAIRMAN. How many men do they carry?

Gen. CROZIER. Eight or ten, I should say, the larger ones of them. The CHAIRMAN. This is an emergency fund, really, to provide things of this character?

Gen. CROZIER. We have had some severe lessons on account of not having foresight to work our imaginations sufficiently in presenting estimates. I will not say that this is exactly the same kind of case, but I can not allot the money over any definite program or the expenditure of all of this money over a definite program. However, I can say that I think something like $5,000,000 of this estimate might be carried as a contract authorization instead of as a cash appropriation.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you allotted the money heretofore appropriated definitely?

Gen. CROZIER. I do not know that we have allotted it all for actual manufacture, but we are using it in the construction of types.

The CHAIRMAN. Why do you ask to have the appropriation remain available for two fiscal years?

Gen. CROZIER. Well, sometimes these things do not get completed just at the time you expect, and sometimes we might want to add the finishing touches ourselves after deliveries on contracts which had been made before the expiration of the fiscal year but where the deliveries themselves had taken place after the expiration of the fiscal year. In regard to this class of war engine, I do not think there ought to be the short time limit of one fiscal year to the life of the appropriation.

TRANSFERS FROM ONE APPROPRIATION TO ANOTHER.

The CHAIRMAN. You are asking that of the sums appropriated 10 per cent under any item may be expended for any purpose of the Ordnance Department necessary for carrying on the war in which the United States is engaged.

Gen. CROZIER. That is for the sake of having some latitude in regard both to the distribution of the funds between the different classes of items for which they have been estimated and also to cover things that are certain to arise and which we have not the authority to do.

CLERICAL SERVICES IN WASHINGTON.

The CHAIRMAN. These are the usual authorities carried, except that you are asking to make your appropriations available also for clerical services in Washington?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir. I do not think there ought to be a limitation on the employment of any kind of services at any place for the carrying on of this war.

The CHAIRMAN. The War Department can employ assistants, General, and we are trying to protect our fiscal system as well as to conduct the war. We may do both-win the war and spare our own Government.

LIMITATION ON MATERIAL PURCHASED ABROAD.

The CHAIRMAN. In the authorization relative to the purchase of material abroad, you are asking us to remove the limitation on the quantities. You eliminate the words "in limited quantities." Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That is because that now, instead of purchasing material for models or types or something of that kind, you wish to make actual purchase in large quantities?

Gen. CROZIER. I do not want to strain those words "in limited quantities" so much. I have told you of several instances in which we have purchased them in considerable quantities, and nobody knows how the comptroller, when he comes to pass upon these accounts, is going to interpret those words "in limited quantities."

OBLIGATIONS INCURRED IN EXISTING EMERGENCY.

The CHAIRMAN. The next paragraph reads:

The appropriations contained herein shall be available for the payment of obligations on account of the existing emergency incurred prior to the passage of this act and which are properly chargeable to such appropriations. Gen. CROZIER. That is the same language that was in the last deficiency act.

RENT OF BUILDING.

(See pp. 79, 908.)

The CHAIRMAN. You are asking $161,000 for the rent of buildings. Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir. Now, $11,000 of that $161,000 is for the purpose of continuing in the occupation of one building, containing principally draftsmen and clerical forces, which we are occupying now and which we had contemplated giving up when we moved into the new building, for the rental of which you provided in one of the recent appropriation acts, and also for the purpose of paying increased rent for this new building, due to the fact that we have asked the builders of it to add three stories to it for our accommodation.

The CHAIRMAN. That is $11,000?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir: $11,000 of the $161,000.

Now, the remaining $150,000 is for the purpose of renting under an authorized lease for five years a building which we hope to be able to induce by this offer of lease some party to erect for our use, and which should be of sufficient size to permit us to gather together in it all the scattered portions of my office, which are now in six different buildings in the city of Washington here, and which will within another month be in seven different buildings.

The CHAIRMAN. Has the question of providing you with space been taken up outside of your own office by the department?

Gen. CROZIER. The question of providing us with space by the rental of different detached space about in the city has been taken up and put into execution.

The CHAIRMAN. We have now before us from the War Departfent a request to authorize the lease of a building for the period of five years at an annual rental not to exceed $92.800. That is for the building that is proposed to be erected as an extension to the present Interstate Commerce Building. Then it is requested to allow the Navy Department to lease this Arlington Hotel site building and turn over to the War Department the Navy Annex Building. In addition to that they are asking for $150,000 to erect a temporary building. Now, have they not included in these propositions space

for you?

Gen. CROZIER. I should judge not without having discussed it with them. The space which would be provided by the projects that you have just mentioned certainly would not accommodate the Ordnance Department and the other departments or bureaus of the War Department.

The CHAIRMAN. Are you sure about that? You know about the Navy Annex Building?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir. Do you know how many square feet there are in it?

The CHAIRMAN. Then there is this building which they propose to erect adjacent to the Interstate Commerce Building. That would be an 11-story building.

Gen. CROZIER. There is $92,000 provided for the rental there, I believe.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Gen. CROZIER. About 50 cents per square foot?

The CHAIRMAN. It is about 68 cents per square foot.

Gen. CROZIER. That would provide for something like 150,000 square feet, and my office is occupying 150,000 square feet now and is bursting its bounds.

The CHAIRMAN. They asked, first, for the Navy Annex Building, then for this addition to the Interstate Commerce Building, and then for an apartment house at 15th and M Streets, which is in course of construction, and they are modifying it so as to utilize it for an office building. Then in addition to that they propose to put up a temporary structure. I was wondering whether in the preparation of their estimates of the needs of the department you had been considered.

Gen. CROZIER. I do not believe we have been considered in that. You see, all of the bureaus are very much in need of expansion and for increased space. There are The Adjutant General, the Quartermaster Corps, and the Signal Corps to be provided for. I estimate that in a year from now I ought to need and will need double the space I am occupying now.

The CHAIRMAN. How much do you occupy now?

Gen. CROZIER. About 150,000 square feet, and this $150,000 I am asking for would be for the rental of a building which, if we were lucky enough to get it at a low rental, might contain 300,000 square feet. That would be on the basis of 50 cents per square foot.

The CHAIRMAN. You can not rent any building in Washington now. There is no building for rent except the old Census Office. About two-thirds of that could be used.

Gen. CROZIER. If we offer to make a lease for five years I would hope to induce somebody to put up a building. It will have to be a new one. If they put it up, and we can get a low rental of 50 cents per square foot, that would give us 300,000 square feet.

The CHAIRMAN. The rental of those buildings now, as they come along, is mostly at the rate of 70 cents per square foot.

Gen. CROZIER. That would give us a little over 200,000 square feet, which would be a little more than we have now, but which would have, even so, the great advantage of getting my office together. I am separated now from my principal officers. You can see how closely I have to be in consultation with the officers here, but Col. Hoffer's office is on F Street, in the Geological Survey Building, and Col. Rice is in the same building with me, in the War Department, but practically all of his force is over on New York Avenue. He is separated from them. The division in which comes up the matters of small arms and small-arms ammunition is over on the corner of Eighteenth and I Streets, and the division which looks after the financial affairs of the office, the cost accounting, etc., and

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