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SMALL-ARMS AMMUNITION STOREHOUSE.

The CHAIRMAN. The next item is “For small-arms ammunition storehouse and cart house, $175,000." I thought we had given you plenty of money for storehouses. We gave you $72,000 for a smallarms ammunition storehouse?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. Is this another one?
Gen. CROZIER. Yes, this is another one.
The CHAIRMAN. What is the need of it?

Gen. CROZIER. I think, Mr. Chairman, you can leave that out now. I had a plan for utilizing the other buildings, for which you gave an appropriation, for another purpose, but I do not think that will be good, and I am going to ask you to make an increase in one of the other items that we are coming to later on to correspond to the one you are leaving out now, but of a less amount.

ENLARGEMENT OF INSTRUMENT-DEPARTMENT BUILDING, The CHAIRMAN. The next item is “For enlargement of instrumentdepartment building and construction of a shrapnel shop, $292,000."

Gen. CROZIER. The reason for that, Mr. Chairman, is that the facilities in the country for manufacturing instruments of the kind that are covered by it are not as great as we were counting on. We are having difficulty in having manufactured telescopic sights, observation telescopes, and instruments of that class, and that has forced us to the conclusion that the instrument department at the Frankford Arsenal ought to be enlarged. That can be done most advantageously by an enlargement of the shop that we have there now for the manufacture of shrapnel ammunition, which we call the shrapnel shop, and by building a new shrapnel shop in connection with it, so that the bulk of the $292,000 asked for will be for a new shrapnel shop.

The CHAIRMAN. We gave you $5,000 with which to enlarge your present instrument-department building?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes; that is true; that was a moderate enlargement and was all right for its purpose; but this is a considerably greater enlargement. You can get an idea of it from this sketch that I have here. Here is the present instrument-department building, a two-story building, and here is the present shrapnel shop [indicating on sketch). It is intended to throw all of that into the instrument-department building [indicating] and then build a new shrapnel shop.

Mr. Sisson. What is the character of the instruments you make there?

Gen. CROZIER. The class referred to here is a class of instruments usually called fire-control instruments, of which, perhaps, the most important is what is known as the panoramic sight, which is a field gun sight; it is the combination of a telescope and angle-measuring instrument, and is, in principle, a good deal like a surveyor's transit, but rather more expensively made.

ARTILLERY CASE SHOP BUILDING. The CHAIRMAN. The next item is “For an artillery case shop building and a carpenter shop building, $500,000.”

Gen. CROZIER. That contemplates the construction on the site of the present shop, which is used as a carpenter shop, of a shop for making cartridge cases for artillery, which would be adequate to make cartridge cases up to the largest size but in limited quantities.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there existing facilities in the country for the manufacture of such cases?

Gen. CROZIER. There are existing facilities, yes; but they are not adequate.

The CHAIRMAN. Would this plant be finished in time to utilize it in connection with the present program?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, it would be finished in time for that, or at least we could get it finished in time. I may be able to drop that out, too. There is another plan which I may be able to use, and . I will just ask you not to consider that now, and if I find that I have got to have it I will try to get the Senate to put it in and then I will make a statement in regard to it.

FRIDAY, August 10, 1917.

Mr. SHERLEY. General, when the hearing adjourned the other day we were dealing with various items at the Frankford Arsenal.

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir.

GENERAL STOREHOUSE.

Mr. SHERLEY. The next item is “For a general storehouse, $260,000”?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir. That is for the purpose of giving increased permanent storage facilities at the Frankford Arsenal, needed now particularly in connection with the war, but which would have been needed anyway and would have been ultimately asked for.

Mr. SHERLEY. Have you the ground on which you propose to erect this building?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. SHERLEY. What character of building will it be?

Gen. CROZIER. It will be of the kind we are building now, in regard to which there is an effort to have them so they can be used either as storehouses or shops in case of necessity, if there should be a change of plan which would call for that kind of utilization.

Mr. SHERLEY. What sort of a structure will it be?

Gen. CROZIER. A permanent structure of either brick or concrete, with a good deal of window space.

Mr. SHERLEY. Of what height?
Gen. CROZIER. It will be four stories, with a high basement.

Mr. SHERLEY. You had in the sundry civil bill an estimate for a general storehouse, $135,000, to be three stories high?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. SHERLEY. This is the same storehouse?
Gen. CROZIER. No; this is not the same.
Mr. SHERLEY. I mean for the same purpose ?
Gen. CROZIER. It is for the same general purpose; general storage.

Mr. SHERLEY. Is the difference in price, this being practically twice the price the other was, due to an increased area or to an increased cost, or both?

Gen. CROZIER. It is due to both. This building will be 181 feet long and it will have a total width of 141 feet, of which 27 feet will be a space between two Ls, as indicated by this sketch [indicating). This length of the building (indicating] is 181 feet and the total width across the front will be 141 feet, and from the front there will extend back two long Ls, each 57 feet wide.

Mr. SHERLEY. Why did you stop with four stories; will that give you all the capacity you want in this building?

Gen. CROZIER. I would not like to promise that. I think that where the question of land is not very pressing, and where the land is not of a very high value, four stories is about as high as it is desirable to go.

Mr. SHERLEY. You would not say that this land was not rather valuable at the Frankford Arsenal ?

Gen. CROZIER. It is rather valuable, but it is not such land as down on Broad Street, in the city of Philadelphia, for instance, where you would submit to the inconvenience of six or seven or eight or nine stories on account of the value of the land. I think when you get up to a building whose proportionate height is greater than indicated by this sketch

sindicating] you are submitting to some kind of inconvenience which you should not have to submit to because of the high price of the land; when the district is not any more congested than it is about the Frankford Arsenal I think it is better to stop there.

Mr. SHERLEY. Will the building be of such a character that you can add to its height later if you need to!

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir; undoubtedly. It is a flat-roof building, and I think could be added to.

Mr. SHERLEY. How necessary is it?

Gen. CROZIER. Some kind of increased storage there is absolutely necessary. The only question we have to decide now, I should say, is whether it will be a permanent structure or several temporary structures. I am expecting to put up a certain amount of temporary storage, and am doing so. I think that this building will be permanently useful and that it would be economy in the long run to make it a permanent building. If we do not, we will practically lose our investment in a temporary building which will have to be replaced. The storage space is necessary.

Mr. SHERLEY. Please state how much storage space you expect to have in this building.

Gen. CROZIER. I have given you the dimensions of the building. I have not computed the storage space. It will be practically five stories that can be used for storage space. There are windows in the basement above the ground.

Mr. SHERLEY. You will build it purely for storage purposes?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir; but in the unforeseen expansions to come we have at more than one arsenal found it desirable to use houses built for storage as shops, and vice versa. The main difference will be that we will build the building with more light than if we did not have the thought that it might at some time be used as a shop. If we were building it for storage purposes and knew that it would never be used for anything else, we would not have it so well lighted.

Mr. Cannon. Where is this storage house to be; at the navy yard?

Gen. CROZIER. It is at the other end of the city from the navy yard. The nary yard is at the southern end of the city.

Mr. Caxxox. Will you have to buy the land?

Gen. CROZIER. Xo; we have the land. It is just a question of putting up the building.

Mr. Caxxox. And this is where you want the storehouse?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir. The reason I have it in this bill is because I think it should be a permanent storehouse.

Mr. Caxxox. And your estimate for the permanent storehouse is what?

Gen. CROZIER. $260.000.
Mr. Caxxox. And the estimate for a temporary one!
Gen. CROZIER. I have not made that estimate.

ADDITIONAL DRY HOTSES.

Mr. SHERLEY. The next item is for “additional dry houses, $36,000."

Gen. CROZIER. These drying houses are for the purpose of drying out the primers for the small-arms ammunition. The primers are made of fulminate and have to be made wet for safety and carefully dried. Some of them went wrong a short time ago, and, while we are back on the track now, investigation indicated that the drying facilities were not adequate. We have five drying houses under construction at the arsenal, but they do not make any provision for storing primers for drying. That is, for leaving them there somewhat after the drying is completed. We think that these three additional drying houses, which can be used also for storage of primers, are called for. Of course, this is storage incidental to manufacture. I think you heard something about the primers giving us some trouble.

Mr. SHERLEY. A year or two agomaybe last year-we gave you in the sundry civil bill some legislation making available funds appropriated for a primer house?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. SHERLEY. I do not recall the details of that now.

Gen. CROZIER. That leaves us now with five drying houses under construction.

Mr. SHERLEY, Was it not contemplated when that legislation was had that those five houses would be adequate?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. SHERLEY. Why are they not?

Gen. CROZIER. We had some bad luck with the primers, and we have now a different view.

Mr. SHERLEY. What do you mean by having had some bad luck with the primers?

Gen. CROZIER. They were supersensitive; they were dried too rapidly, with the idea of getting them out of the drying houses as soon as possible, and they were taken out too soon.

Mr. SHERLEY. In order to enable them to stay longer in the drying houses you need additional drying houses?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir.
Mr. SHERLEY. How soon do you expect to get these buildings?

Gen. CROZIER. These drying houses are small affairs and can be put up very promptly. The storehouse, of course, will be a matter

of a longer time. If we can get good bids and there is no famine in building material or in labor we ought to get the storehouse constructed, if we have good luck, in eight or nine months. Mr. SHERLEY. And the drying houses!

Gen. CROZIER. The drying houses in probably less than half that time.

Mr. SHERLEY. How many do you expect to get with this appropriation ?

Gen. CROZIER. Three.
Mr. SHERLEY. What did the five cost you?

Gen. CROZIER. I do not remember now. They are not very expensive buildings. These three buildings are expected to cost about $12,000 apiece.

MAGAZINES.

Mr. SHERLEY. The next item is "For three magazines, $60,000."

Gen. CROZIER. There is another thing. We have already had an appropriation for five additional magazines, but the increased amount of work is so considerable that they do not afford capacity enough.

Mr. SHERLEY, Are these to be of the same size as the others that are in process of construction?

Gen. CROZIER. That, I can not say, Mr. Chairman. I would like to say this in regard to the subject that is before you now, and this is as good an illustration as any we can have of it. At the six large establishments of the ordnance department and at the three smaller ones in the United States the activities have been greatly increased. Of course, when the United States entered the war in April, these activities were greatly increased, and that greatly accentuated the necessity for certain improvements like these. It has been perfectly impossible for me to make a personal investigation of all these things that are presented. It has been perfectly impossible for me, for instance, to investigate as to the size of the magazines and the character of construction, and I simply do not know anything about the size or the character of the construction.

I simply know that the operations there have been greatly increased, that we are increasing the plant, and are running it on a three-shift basis, the design being to get all of the productior. out of the arsenal that can possibly be gotten. The commanding officer reports to me that the magazine capacity for the current storage of powder and explosives is insufficient. Of course, I know that when there is a great increase of production, there must necessarily be an increase in the reservoir for powder and explosives—that is, the reservoir that you must feed into and out of. Powder can not be ordered from the manufacturers to be used as fast as it comes, but some of it must come and go. I have an officer of experience there, who has been in command of the arsenal for a number of years, and he is to be trusted in matters of this sort; so that, in passing this estimate on to Congress, I have to submit it with reliance upon his judgment. It has not been possible to discuss such matters as this with him.

Mr. SHERLEY. Has he indicated the size and character of the buildings to be secured for this amount of money?

Gen. CROZIER. He has indicated the size and character of a good many of these buildings, and I have shown you a number of sketches.

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