EXTENSION OF THE ERECTION SHOP.

Mr. SHERLEY. "For an extension of the erection shop, $230,000." Gen. CROZIER. That is a part of the plan for an increase in the capacity of the arsenal which was appropriated for, I think, something over one year ago. The appropriation was not sufficient for carrying out its object. We designed having this erecting shop 450 feet long, but the appropriation was only sufficient to put one up 300 feet long. It is desirable that the original plan should be carried out. The work that has been done and is in process of completion will not be useless without this $230,000, but the capacity will not be what it was designed to be without it.

Mr. SHERLEY. When did you get that money?

Gen. CROZIER. I think it was in the fortification bill before the last one.

Mr. SHERLEY. In the fortification bill?

Gen. CROZIER. Or probably in the sundry civil bill. It was either in the one before the last one, or, perhaps, the one before that. It was one of those cases where we were surprised when we found out what the lowest bid we could get for the erection and equipment of this building was.

Mr. SHERLEY. What do you mean by an erecting shop?

Gen. CROZIER. The various parts of such a machine as a gun carriage, for instance, are made around in different shops. The large, heavy parts are, first, the ones that form the base resting on the concrete foundation; then there is a ring of rollers resting on that which make a part of the turntable; then the large and comparatively flat pieces which rest on the ring of rollers, and then the cheeks or side pieces which hold the cradle on which the gun itself directly rests, usually by means of rollers. All these various pieces are made about in different shops, they are then put together and the carriage is completely assembled and the gun mounted on it and given every trial that it can be given without firing the gun, and the shop in which it is put together and in which these trials are made is called the erecting shop. Here is a blue print of the one we are talking about which shows three of the platforms for the erection of gun carriages.

Mr. SHERLEY. How much of an extension did you get under the previous appropriation?

Gen. CROZIER. We got a shop 300 feet long. We wanted one 450 feet long.

Mr. CANNON. How long will it take you to build it?

Gen. CROZIER. It is under construction now, and this is to increase the length of it about 140 feet. The plans are all made and it is being done by an engineering construction company which has its staff on the ground, and I do not suppose it will delay the construction more than perhaps three months.

Mr. CANNON. The whole thing then can probably be completed in the next six months?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir; we would expect to have it completed within that time.

Mr. SHERLEY. Did you state the amount you got before for this extension?

Gen. CROZIER. $500,000 for increasing the facilities for the manufacture of gun carriages.

Mr. SHERLEY. It came in a different form from the one you have this estimate in?

Gen. CROZIER. No; you gave the appropriation for increasing the capacity for this purpose and gave another appropriation for increasing the facilities for the manufacture of armor-piercing projectiles. The one for that purpose was about $200,000.

Mr. SHERLEY. This amounts, then, practically to a deficiency estimate of $200,000 on your original estimate of $500,000?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes; except the original estimate was not stated to cover any particular capacity, and any enlargement increasing the facilities would have complied with the terms of the appropriation, but in accordance with the estimate this is a deficiency.

Mr. SHERLEY. You contemplated with that $500,000 to do what it' is now going to take $730,000 to do?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes; exactly; and that is well within the increased cost of doing this kind of work which has come about since that estimate was made.

Mr. SHERLEY. Ought not this language to be re-formed in order to keep it clear and so as to comply with the original appropriation which reads "For additional amount for increasing capacity for manufacturing gun carriages"?

Gen. CROZIER. That would be perfectly satisfactory, and I think that would be better language; yes.

BUILDING FOR STORING PATTERNS.

Mr. SHERLEY. "For a building for storing patterns, including its equipment, $100,000."

Gen. CROZIER. You know that the Watertown Arsenal is the Government's factory for seacoast gun carriages, and of course, these gun carriages, like everything else are liable to need repairs at any time. It is desirable, therefore, to store and keep on hand at the Watertown Arsenal the patterns which are used in the manufacture of the carriages which are made there, and also those which are made elsewhere when they cease to be used elsewhere and when they are the property of the Government, so as to be able to manufacture repair parts. As an illustration, we have made recently there the patterns for some eight new types of gun carriages and there is not any space for storing those patterns. They have been stored in a woodworking building on the second floor and around in any odd spaces that could be found that would hold them. Their money value is very considerable, and it is worth while to store them rather than to make them over again when repairs have to be made of parts which were made from these patterns originally. Mr. SHERLEY. These are wooden patterns?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir.

Mr. SHERLEY. And of rather large size?

Gen. CROZIER. Some of them are of large size, some of them as big as this table, and then they go on down to almost any size; for instance, the gear wheels, pinions, and things of that sort are quite small.

Mr. SHERLEY. What character of building do you propose to erect? Gen. CROZIER. This will be a brick building with a steel-truss roof with a slate covering.

Mr. SHERLEY. Of what dimensions?

Gen. CROZIER. It will not necessarily be brick. We may make it of reinforced concrete. It will have an elevator in it and be provided with proper steel racks to hold these patterns. It will be a fireproof building.

Mr. SHERLEY. How crowded are you for storage for patterns now? Gen. CROZIER. We are very much crowded. As I say, we have a woodworking shop there, which is a pattern-making shop and a carpenter shop for ordinary carpenter purposes, and we have a good many of these patterns on the second floor of that building. It is not a very good place to keep them, because a woodworking shop is rather more subject to fire than other kinds of buildings, and, even so, there is not enough room there. Some of them are around in any kind of odd space, scattered over the arsenal, which are not regular storage places at all. Holes and corners would describe those places better than any other terms.

EXTENSION OF OFFICE BUILDING.

Mr. SHERLEY. "For an extension of the office building."

Gen. CROZIER. For that we are asking $20,000. The office building is about 75 or 76 feet long and 40 feet wide. It has comparatively low ceilings and two stories, which are about 9 feet high. There are 84 people working in it now and more required. It is entirely too crowded, and it is proposed to add something over 15 feet, between 15 and 16 feet, to each end of the building.

Mr. SHERLEY. You asked for $10,000 to do this work a little while ago?

Gen. CROZIER. It is now estimated it will take $20,000. I hope it will not continue to grow if it should be put off, but all this work has gone up in price, and the amount of $20,000 to add two 15-foot extensions to a two-story building 40 feet wide, I think, is as little as you can get it done for now.

REPLACING OBSOLETE AND WORN-OUT MACHINE TOOLS.

Mr. SHERLEY. The next item is, " For replacing obsolete and wornout machine tools, $14,500."

Gen. CROZIER. That includes a list of tools which are specified here. I can give you a list of them. That is a moderate sum.

Mr. CANNON. Why don't you simply junk them?

Gen. CROZIER. There is nothing in this appropriation that covers that. This is to replace obsolete and worn-out tools. These are old tools of obsolete design that have been in the service for a long time. It costs too much to repair them, and if you did repair them they would not be worth having, because modern tools will save so much. money in the work turned out on them that they will save their cost in a very short time. These new tools will save their cost in a remarkably short time.

Mr. CANNON. I thought it was for the storage of these obsolete tools. Of course, you must replace them when they wear out.

INCREASED FACILITIES FOR PRODUCTION OF ARMOR-PIERCING PROJECTILES.

Mr. BYRNS. The next item is, "For increasing facilities for the production of armor-piercing projectiles, $26,000."

Gen. CROZIER. That is intended to supply a deficiency in an appropriation which was made in the recent sundry civil act for increasing the facilities required in the production of armor-piercing projectiles, and which was not sufficient to cover three rather important machines included in the project, and for which we now need this $26,000. Mr. BYRNS. How much was the former appropriation? Gen. CROZIER. $215,000, I think.

Mr. BYRNS. This is not for the purpose of providing additional machines, but is simply to secure a sufficient appropriation to provide the machines originally contemplated?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir. There is a grinder, a thread miller, and a derrick for handling projectiles that we expected to get out of that appropriation, together with other things.

INCREASING FACILITIES FOR MANUFACTURE OF GUN CARRIAGES.

Mr. BYRNS. The next item is, "For increasing facilities for the manufacture of gun carriages, $130,000."

Gen. CROZIER. That is because of the increased prices. There is a list of 13 machines that are needed to complete that equipment, but which we have not got the funds for.

Mr. SHERLEY. This is another deficiency in connection with that gun-carriage extension?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir.

Mr. SHERLEY. Why should not this, in the event it is to be allowed, be merged with the other item of $230,000?

Gen. CROZIER. That would be a good way to handle it.

Mr. SHERLEY. That really means that you are going to miss your former figure by 60 or 70 per cent?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir; that is right.

Mr. SHERLEY. You may have stated, but I did not catch it, whether you would get any enlargement over and above what you contemplated with that $500,000?

Gen. CROZIER. None that I am sure of; no, sir.

Mr. SHERLEY. What made your miss so bad?

Gen. CROZIER. Everybody has missed along the same lines these last few years.

Mr. SHERLEY. That estimate was made in the days of high prices, and I think you were anticipating in that $500,000 an increase of 10, 15, or 20 per cent in your cost because of increased prices?

Gen. CROZIER. Nobody has been able to keep pace in these estimates with the rise in prices.

Mr. SHERLEY. How do you do this work?

Gen. CROZIER. Do you mean how we make these estimates? Mr. SHERLEY. No, sir; I am asking you about the work itself. Are you doing it by contract or is it done under the supervision of your officers there?

Gen. CROZIER. The building, as has generally been done in the past, is done by contract. That is to say, plans for the buildings have been

drawn up and perhaps an architect or engineer has been employed in connection with it. Then the work has been let to the lowest bidder. Comparatively recently, in some of the later work of this kind, we have employed engineer construction firms and have had them do the work on a cost-plus-profit basis. Our experience has been just the same as everybody's else. When I was last before you, two or three days ago, I read to you a newspaper article showing an experience they had had in Philadelphia. I think the case referred to then, as I remember it, was the construction of some elevated railroad structures. In that case the bids were 50 or 60 per cent over what the estimates had been.

Mr. SHERLEY. General, are you doing an amount of work at Watertown that warrants such heavy capital outlay in this day of high prices?

Gen. CROZIER. We have more work to be done than can be done at Watertown. Work of the kind that is required will more than occupy all the facilities at Watertown, including the new facilities. It is true if it were not done at Watertown it would be done somewhere else, but everybody's capacity is overworked now, and whereever the work should be done it would require the installation of new plants or facilities.

Mr. SHERLEY. Are you saving anything in doing this work by the Government now? In the old days we used to feel liberally disposed toward your arsenals, but since your cost has now climbed enough, or since the cost of the manufacturers has come down enough to no longer give us any special benefit from Government work, it does not make us so disposed to increase the capital outlay in this plant.

Gen. CROZIER. But our gun-carriage work is still done more cheaply by ourselves than it is done for us. That work is not subject to the reduction in manufacturing cost which comes from turning out work in such immense quantities, as ammunition, powder, and that sort of thing have been turned out since the commencement of the war. Hence, there has not been a reduction of its commercial price.

Mr. SHERLEY. What is the value, in round figures, of the Watertown Arsenal, or what does it stand the Government?

Gen. CROZIER. I do not remember, but it is something like two and a half million dollars, I think. I have the figures in my office, of course, and I think I have testified as to that before this committee.

Mr. SHERLEY. You stated what additional facilities you would get with this money?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir; this $130,000 you are speaking of will secure machine tools.

Mr. SHERLEY. Cutting tools?

Gen. CROZIER. They are lathes, boring mills, planers, shapers, a steam hammer, and those kinds of tools.

Mr. SHIRLEY. You originally contemplated to get some tools out of that $500,000?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir; they are a part of the equipment.

Mr. SHERLEY. So this increased cost is particularly due to the increased cost of machinery?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir; it has been very great.