CONSTRUCTION AND REPAIR OF ROADS, ETC.

Mr. SHERLEY. The next item is "For additional for construction and repair of roads, sidewalks, etc., $6,000."

Gen. CROZIER. You gave me an appropriation of $10,000, but that does not put the roadways in and about the arsenal in the condition that they ought to be. There ought to be an additional sum. Of course, that is one of the appropriations which are made for the sake of efficiency. You know how desirable it is to have the connections in good order. Of course, things do not stop if they are not in perfectly good order, but whatever is done is not as efficiently carried on.

Mr. SHERLEY. This is an additional $6,000 to what we gave you on your original estimate?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir.

Mr. SHERLEY. You thought you could get along with $10,000, and now you come back for the additional $6,000?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir.

FIELD OFFICERS' QUARTERS.

Mr. SHERLEY. The next item is "For two sets of field officers' quarters, $40,000."

Gen. CROZIER. There are at the Watertown Arsenal four sets of quarters altogether, and no quarters have been built there, I think, for 40 years or more.

Mr. SHERLEY. Well, the Watertown Arsenal is right in a town.

Gen. CROZIER. It is in a community; yes, sir. That appropriation would add to the convenience and would house an additional number of officers. It still will not provide for all the officers up there and that will be kept there. However, it is not absolutely necessary. It is a matter of convenience, but it is not a vital matter.

LOCOMOTIVE CRANE.

Mr. SHERLEY. The next item is, "For additional for one locomotive crane, $15,000."

Gen. CROZIER. There was an appropriation in the act of June the 12th, the last sundry civil act, of $14,000 for that purpose. Mr. SHERLEY. $14,500?

Gen. CROZIER. $14,500; yes, sir. It was expected to get for that a 50-ton crane. The prices were up so that it was not considered worth while to ask for a 50-ton crane, and the crane that was advertised for was of 40 tons capacity. None of the bids was satisfactory; so it was considered best to go without that until we could make an effort to get an additional appropriation and get a 50-ton crane, as was originally desired.

Mr. SHERLEY. It will cost 100 per cent more?

Gen. CROZIER. Pretty nearly. That $15,000, I am informed by the commanding officer, ought to be $16,000.

Mr. SHERLEY. It will cost over 100 per cent more?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir; over 100 per cent more.

TESTING MACHINES AT WATERTOWN ARSENAL.

Mr. SHERLEY. The next item is as follows:

Watertown Arsenal, testing machines: For additional for necessary professional and skilled labor, purchase of materials, tools, and appliances for operating the testing machines, for investigative test and tests of material in connection with the manufacturing work of the Ordnance Department, and for instruments and materials for operating the chemical laboratory in connection therewith, and for maintenance of the establishment, $10,000.

Gen. CROZIER. The principal object of that increase in the appropriation is to permit better use to be made of the testing laboratory at the Watertown Arsenal, where we have a testing machine and other mechanical and chemical apparatus. We never have had as good a return from that laboratory as we think we ought to get. We have employed in connection with the laboratory some scientific men in the neighborhood, who give a part of their time to the work. From Cambridge University we have had the services of one or two men who were particularly well equipped in their line. We employ a metallurgist there, a man of good attainments, and he has been hampered for the lack of certain equipment, and particularly for the lack of space and for the lack of personnel. There are certain kinds of investigations that he would like to make and certain kinds of tests that he would like to make in connection with research work, and he wants better equipment in the way of magnetic and electrical instruments. Then he wants better equipment for certain kinds of shop tests.

Mr. SHERLEY. This is an annual charge?

Gen. CROZIER. This is an annual charge, except there should be an extension of the building we have this laboratory in, which would cost about $3,500.

Mr. SHERLEY. You have been getting $15,000 for a number of years past for this purpose?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir; for a good many years.

Mr. SHERLEY. And you are now asking $6,500, or pretty nearly an increase of 50 per cent for annual maintenance-that is, excluding this building you are talking about.

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir. I think it is a moderate increase. You understand, Mr. Chairman, that it is very difficult to state the specific return that you expect from research work, but the general experience of manufacturing establishments of any magnitude is that it is worth while, and the amounts which they are spending in the equipment and expenses of research laboratories are bearing a continually increasing proportion-I will not say that-I was going to say to the other kind of output, but that is not the case. Their work is continually growing, and there is a continual increase in this class of expenditure.

Now, the people in charge of Watertown Arsenal feel, and I am satisfied of it myself, that this work is not progressive enough, that we do not know enough about the things we are dealing with, and that our knowledge should be increased by laboratory processes. About the best you can do is to take a general survey of the work of the Ordnance Department, realize the expenditures that are made at its own five considerable manufacturing establishments, and then form a general judgment as to whether this amount of $25,000, be

cause that is what it would come to-is too much expense for research and other scientific work or research and testing work. A good deal of it is routine testing for the benefit of this establishment.

Mr. SHERLEY. You have not similar establishments at your other arsenals?

Gen. CROZIER. None like this. We have small testing machines that do certain kinds of routine testing at the other arsenals, but we have not got such laboratories as this one at the other arsenals.

Mr. SHERLEY. Do you avail yourself of the Bureau of Standards? Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir.

Mr. SHERLEY. To what extent?

Gen. CROZIER. We are in relation with them most of the time. We have just got from the Bureau of Standards one of their scientific employees, whom I am taking into the Ordnance Department as a reserve officer, particularly in connection with the equipment of the Ordnance Department with gauges for the inspection of artillery ammunition, of which the supply is to be very great. I am stationing him at the Frankford Arsenal. The Bureau of Standards, together with some other research agencies, is engaged in forwarding researches into optical glasses, for which we have been entirely dependent upon Germany heretofore, because they were not made in this country, but which we think will be made here successfully. Mr. SHERLEY. Do they do any testing for you?

Gen. CROZIER. No routine testing for us; no, sir. Once in a while we put up to them some kind of research questions. Recently we have had them to standardize a lot of magazine thermometers for us for keeping track of the temperatures in the magazines where the explosives are stored.

Mr. SHERLEY. You say you want to expend $3,500 of this for a small additional building?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir; for an extension to a building that is there.

WATERVLIET ARSENAL.

ALTERATION AND IMPROVEMENT OF OFFICE BUILDINGS.

Mr. SHERLEY. The next item is "Watervliet Arsenal, West Troy, N. Y.: For alteration and improvement of office building, $15,000." Gen. CROZIER. That is intended to raise the roof of the office building and give us another floor.

Mr. SHERLEY. You have three a tow-story building?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir; a two-story building.

Mr. SHERLEY. What is the area?

Gen. CROZIER. I have a sketch of it here that I will show you. There is the elevation of the building as it will look after the third story is added, and here [indicating] is the plan of the third story that will be added. This is on the scale of one-fourth of an inch to the foot.

Mr. SHERLEY. How much area are you going to get?

Gen. CROZIER. Floor space of about 40 by 60 feet.

Mr. SHERLEY. Why do you not raise the building at the other place, because if you get this much area for $15,000 it is more than you are proposing to get for your other building?

Gen. CROZIER. Perhaps that could be done; I do not know.

Maj. JAMIESON. You would get 2,400 square feet and in the other case 2,800.

Gen. CROZIER. You would get 30 by 40; that is 1,200, and two floors are 2,400.

Mr. SHERLEY. And here you get how much?

Gen. CROZIER. 2,800.

Mr. SHERLEY. For $5,000 less. That is about $5 a square foot, is it not?

Gen. CROZIER. Let us get this more accurately. The dimensions are not given here and I was guessing at the dimensions of this building. Since you are going into it in detail let us go into it right. It would be about 3,450 square feet.

Mr. SHERLEY. What was the other?

Gen. CROZIER. 2,400.

Mr. SHERLEY. Here it is $5,000 cheaper?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes; this is the cheaper method, as far as the floor space is concerned. Of course, that is mixed up with a number of other things, the details of partitions inside, details of the heating arrangements, and details of things of that sort. We can go into them if you like.

Mr. SHERLEY. We have not the time to go into the details, but that is something like $5 a square foot, is it not?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes, sir.

Mr. SHERLEY. That is away beyond what it costs to build here? Gen. CROZIER. I do not know about that. Temporary wooden construction that I have had an estimate on here was at the rate of $2.50 a square foot.

Mr. SHERLEY. And concrete was not a great deal more?

Gen. CROZIER. We rent now certain buildings at 50 cents a square foot, and I think that something like 10 per cent of the cost is regarded as a reasonable rental; that would correspond, then, with $5 a square foot for construction, and that is, of course, construction on a larger scale than this; this is a small piece of work, which is always more expensive.

GARAGE AND OIL STOREHOUSE.

Mr. SHERLEY. The next item is, "For a garage and oil storehouse, $9,000."

Gen. CROZIER. This is intended for a garage building for the purpose of housing the fire-fighting appliances there, the engine, hose cart, truck cart, etc.

Mr. SHERLEY. Is not that the next item of $8,000? This is for a garage and oil storehouse and the next item is for increasing facilities for fire protection?

Gen. CROZIER. No; that is another kind of an increase of facilities for fire protection. This is intended for the storage of these vehicles. Here is a sketch of the building which is intended for this purpose. The need of it has been commented on in inspection visits at the arsenals by officers of the Inspector General's Department and the need must be admitted. The gasoline fire engine is stored off in another building and the hose carts and ladders are stored in an unused part of the stable; they all ought to be gotten together in a proper building.

Mr. SHERLEY. Is this to be a brick or concrete building? Gen. CROZIER. I do not know; and I shall allow the commanding officer to build it of brick or concrete, whichever he chooses, and shall not ask him unless you want me to do so.

Mr. SHERLEY. I wondered whether he had furnished that information?

Gen. CROZIER. No.

Mr. SHERLEY. Is it to be a permanent building?

Gen. CROZIER. Yes; it is intended to be a permanent building, and we hope it will not have to be renewed or frequently repaired; the construction to be of such character that it will last.

INCREASING FACILITIES FOR FIRE PROTECTION.

Mr. SHERLEY. The next item is "For increasing facilities for fire protection, $8,000."

Gen. CROZIER. The sundry civil bill of a year ago carries an appropriation of $17,000 for this purpose, something over $17,000. That was not sufficient to carry out this entire project, which was to provide one of the large storage buildings at the arsenal with a sprinkler system for fire protection, and this appropriation is intended to supply the deficiency. Here is a plan of one of the floors of that building and you can see by looking at it the extent to which the building is provided with automatic sprinklers. This portion of it, in one of the wings, is left unsupplied with sprinklers on three floors, and this appropriation is intended to put them in on two floors and an attic.

INCREASING FACILITIES FOR MANUFACTURING OF MOBILE ARTILLERY CANNON.

(See p. 840.)

Mr. SHERLEY. The next item is "For increasing facilities for the manufacture of mobile artillery cannon, including the necessary buildings, $750,000."

Gen. CROZIER. That is intended for about doubling the capacity for manufacturing field artillery. It includes a building and the equipment of it with machinery. There has been a good deal of correspondence about it. I did not intend to ask for this money until we got into this war, as I thought that the capacity of the arsenal was sufficient to carry out the artillery project that we had in hand and in the time in which we expected to carry it out, but it is far from sufficient now. A great deal more additional plant than this will have to be created somewhere for the manufacture of these smaller artillery cannon, and I think it is to the advantage of the Government to put this part of the increase at the Watervliet Arsenal, and also a much more considerable increase, which I am going to speak to you about in a moment, and which is not mentioned in these estimates.

Mr. SHERLEY. Suppose you state the whole case now and then we can examine it in some detail.

ERECTING BUILDINGS ON LEASEHOLDS AND PRIVATELY OWNED PROPERTY.

(See p. 720.)

Gen. CROZIER, I mentioned to the committee a few days ago that we should have to very considerably increase the capacity of the

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