they had utilized all the available resources of the country in obtaining the equipment required.

Secretary BAKER. I am from time to time familiar with all the details. I have not those details with me because I did not know that question would be inquired of. In a general way this is true: There will be adequate supplies. By the inclusion of certain substitutions of things that are not regulation as to color but adequate in quality there will be adequate supplies for the National Army to be called out as at present intended, which is 30 per cent on the 5th of September, that date being selected so as to avoid Labor Day and a Sunday which comes in, for the convenience of the railroads; 30 per centThe CHAIRMAN (interposing). What is 30 per cent. 150,000 or 200,000?

Secretary BAKER. About 150,000. Then the next 30 per cent is on the 19th of September, and 30 per cent on the

Mr. SHERLEY (interposing). About 190,000?

Secretary BAKER. Including the special troops; yes:

Mr. SHERLEY. The cantonments expect to house 644,540 troops, and 30 per cent would be about 190,000?

Secretary BAKER. Yes; nearer 200,000.

Mr. SHERLEY. It was testified before us that there will be clothing for 150,000 only on the 1st of September?

Secretary BAKER. Those estimates are as variable as the thermometer; they change frequently and they are variable because of two facts: We have to estimate deliveries from manufacturing plants; one day they are estimated to be one quantity and another day estimated to be another quantity. There are some labor disturbances. in places which are producing these supplies; there are every now and then special calls on the Quartermaster General's Department to equip special troops, like railroad engineers, which dip into the supply. The last report I had from the Quartermaster General was that on the 5th of September the quota then to be called-whether it was 150,000 or 200,000 seems to me immaterial-will be supplied. That does mean that there will be a complete equipment for each man of the kind we would supply if our reserve stocks were full, but it means that we have enough equipment to clothe, shoe, and provide for these men on their arrival in camp on the 5th of September.

Mr. SHERLEY. And that to be followed by similar equipment? Secretary BAKER. Yes; during the rest of the month, including the entire National Army. There may be a shortage of regulation blankets; if so, it will be supplied by issuing "unregulation" blankets, and so on.

The CHAIRMAN. The Quartermaster General stated they would be able to equip 150,000 men on the 1st of September if his deliveries were lived up to. Now, Mr. Secretary, I do not know whether you are familiar with this situation or not, but the statement was made that the subcommittee of the advisory commission of the Council of National Defense has declined to make purchases from concerns like Wanamaker, Gimbel Brothers, Marshall Field & Co., and so on, although some of them are willing and in a position to supply some of the things needed.

Secretary BAKER. I have no information about that.

The CHAIRMAN. You are not familiar with that?

Secretary BAKER. No; I have no information on that subject and have never hear that before. What is the point? Are they supposed to be dealing with manufacturers rather than middlemen?

The CHAIRMAN. I do not know, but the statement is made that John Wanamaker made up a list of articles aggregating about $10,000,000 which the department needed and tendered them, and they simply declined to consider them at all and would not give him any information as to what was needed, on the ground that he was a middleman and not a manufacturer.

Secretary BAKER. I have not heard that before and I do not know what the fact is.

The CHAIRMAN. The statement was made to me by Maj. Gen. Arthur Murray, who said that he accompanied a representative of the Quartermaster General to this subcommittee and that statement was made in his presence. I did not know whether you were familiar with the facts or whether we should inquire of the members of the commission.

Secretary BAKER. It would be wise to inquire of the members of the commission, but offhand I should say they probably ought to do that or I should think they would do it.

The CHAIRMAN. If the Government required this equipment and these people were in a position to furnish it, and could furnish the equipment required at prices that were proper, what difference would it make whether they were middlemen or manufacturers?

Secretary BAKER. Because, in a situation where we are buying and trying to get our hands upon the entire output of the industry of the country and all it is capable of, it would seem to me to be suicidal to start middlemen, like John Wanamaker and Gimbel Bros. to competing with us for the things manufactured.

The CHAIRMAN. This was for some certain articles that the Government could not get and the statement was made that they were in a position to furnish them.

Secretary BAKER. I do not like to argue about a case where I do not know the facts, but

The CHAIRMAN (interposing). I am stating the information we have received and we wanted to know about it, so as to be able to make a complete statement.

Secretary BAKER. The information ought to be gotten from the commission.

ERECTION OF TEMPORARY OFFICE BUILDING.

(See pp. 79, 92, 93, 229, 336, 752.)

The CHAIRMAN. There is another matter I want to ask you about, Mr. Secretary. One of your propositions, in connection with renting a building, was an addition to the Interstate Commerce Building.

Secretary BAKER. Was that the one recommended by the committee and about which I sent you a report?

The CHAIRMAN. I have been informed that the offer of a five-year lease at $92,000 can not be carried out unless a 10-year lease is made.

Secretary BAKER. Is that the one you spoke to me about before, where they made an offer on a 10-year basis and then increased the price on a five-year basis?

The CHAIRMAN. No; this is one of the recommendations of the committee for the extension of the present Interstate Commerce Building at Eighteenth and G Streets, and they recommended a fiveyear lease at $92,000.

Secretary BAKER. What square foot area? What does it amount to per square foot?

The CHAIRMAN. In the neighborhood of 74 cents a square foot. The information that has been communicated to me is that they are unable to finance that proposition unless they can make a 10-year lease.

Secretary BAKER. I do not think it would be justified.

The CHAIRMAN. There is in existence and I want to ask you to express your opinion on this a public building commission which was organized for the purpose of recommending some permanent plan for housing Government activities in Government buildings. The committee has before it requests now for about 815,000 square feet of space, with the knowledge that at least a million square feet of space will be needed before the 30th of June, and the suggestion has been made to erect one or two temporary buildings in which all of these activities could be housed. Have you any opinion as to the desirability of accommodations that will enable you to put all of your forces, as nearly as possible, in one location?

Secretary BAKER. No; I have no estimate of that.
The CHAIRMAN. I say, as to its desirability?

Secretary BAKER. It would be highly desirable and very economical. I think you can erect temporary buildings, which will be sufficiently sightly, sufficiently comfortable, and which will last from five to six or seven years, at a maximum of $2 a square foot, and if they were built on either ground owned by the public or at a low rental rate it would be a very much sounder policy than either buying, renting, or causing to be built additions to such monumental office buildings as the present Interstate Commerce structure.

The CHAIRMAN. We have, as I say, now before us requests for 815,000 square feet and the Bureau of Ordnance states that they undoubtedly will require very much greater space.

Secretary BAKER. They undoubtedly will.

The CHAIRMAN. And other bureaus of your department will probably be in the same position?

Secretary BAKER. Undoubtedly; The Adjutant General particularly.

The CHAIRMAN. If the war is prolonged at all?

Secretary BAKER. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. And if it were possible to provide accommodations where these activities could be put under one roof, with room for enlargement, in your opinion it would be more desirable than scattering them?

Secretary BAKER. Very much to be preferred.

TUESDAY, AUGUST 21, 1917.

BARRACKS AND QUARTERS, SEACOAST DEFENSES.

(See pp. 568, 589.)

STATEMENT OF COL. ISAAC W. LITTELL, QUARTERMASTER CORPS, UNITED STATES ARMY.

REVISION OF ESTIMATES.

The CHAIRMAN. Colonel, the estimates for barracks and quarters for seacoast defenses have been revised from $750,000 to $3,462,000.

Col. LITTELL. Mr. Chairman, that $3,462,000 covers the seacoast artillery both for the Regular Army and the militia, and the $750,000 taken from that will leave the estimate for the National Guard Militia. The CHAIRMAN. That estimate includes the $750,000?

Col. LITTELL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What is this to be used for-permanent or temporary construction?

Col. LITTELL. At all of the artillery posts that we have now they have called for additional barracks to accommodate the additional strength of the companies and the additional number of regular troops that would be required to man the batteries at those places, so far as they can with Regulars.

The CHAIRMAN. You mean under the national-defense act?

Col. LITTELL. Yes, sir. As you know, at some of these Artillery posts they have at the present time no garrison at all, but simply a lot of guns, and they must have crews for those guns. They propose to man them with Regulars, and also with National Guard troops at these stations where there are guns without men

The CHAIRMAN (interposing). What proportion of this estimate is for construction of a permanent character and what proportion of it is for construction of a temporary character for this emergency?

Col. LITTELL. It is all for this cantonment style of construction. They are buildings that will last a long time with care. Of course, they must be prepared for winter use. They would last like the buildings at the Presidio, which are 10 or 12 years old. They were put up as temporary quarters, and they were not quite as good as those we are putting up now, but, of course, we have added to them from time to time and have bettered them, so that they will probably be used for a number of years yet.

The CHAIRMAN. For how many men will this provide accommodations?

Col. LITTELL. I have been trying to get those figures all the morning, but as yet I have not gotten them. I have been trying to get the militia figures from the Militia Bureau, and I expected to get them by telephone before I came before you, but they have not come yet. Before anyone could figure that out they would have to find out the exact number of men in the militia. We can tell that as to the Regulars, of course, and we figured it in this way: In the estimates that came from the posts in New York Harbor they figured on a certain number of Regulars, and also upon a certain number of militia that they would require for the guns. They made an

estimate for the cantonment construction, and by figuring on the same proportion of Regulars at each of the posts to the Volunteers, or rather militia, that they estimated on at those posts-that is, by figuring up all the posts in the United States in the same way-we arrived a these figures, in the absence of accurate figures, of course, as to how many men there would be; I do not know that it was known at that time. We did not know it.

Mr. SISSON. Let me see if I understand that. You figured on the number of men that you would need at those posts?

Col. LITTELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. SISSON. And you then deducted from that known number the regular forces, and the difference between the two

Col. LITTELL (interposing). We figured on a like proportion at all these posts.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know whether it is the intention to completely man all the seacoast batteries?

Col. LITTELL. I do not, Mr. Chairman. We have not been able to find out yet whether they intend to man all the seacoast defenses on both shores-the Atlantic and Pacific-or not.

The CHAIRMAN. Your estimates are to provide accommodations for the complete forces required?

Col. LITTELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. SISSON. Why do they want to man all of those batteries at this time?

Col. LITTELL. I can not explain that to you.

Mr. SISSON. I do not see any necessity for all of those batteries being manned at their full strength at this time. It seems to me that we will need the soldiers more at other places.

Col. LITTELL. I do not know whether they will use the Coast Artillery for other purposes, or not.

The CHAIRMAN. As this estimate is submitted, it is limited for the accommodation of officers and enlisted men of the Coast Artillery, Regular Army. You do not want it limited in that way, do you?

Col. LITTELL. No, sir; we would like to have it cover both the militia, or National Guard, and Regular Army.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there anything else?

Mr. SISSON. That is all, unless they can tell us what is the necessity for the expenditure of all this money at this time.

Col. LITTELL. The Chief of Coast Artillery is the only one who would be in a position to tell you why they want it.

FRIDAY, AUGUST 10, 1917.

FEDERAL BOARD FOR VOCATIONAL EDUCATION.

STATEMENT OF MR. PHILANDER P. CLAXTON, COMMISSIONER OF EDUCATION.

Mr. SHERLEY. Mr. Claxton, there is an item found in the estimates on page 2 for the Federal Board for Vocational Education, as follows:

The sum of $200,000 provided in section seven of the act entitled "An act to provide for the promotion of vocational education; to provide for cooperation