The CHAIRMAN. Is there anything further now, Mr. O'Donnell? Mr. O'DONNELL. As I understand it, the notes are substantially the basis of your affidavit?

Mr. EVANS. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well.

Senator JACKSON. I have no questions.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Evans. Will you remain around for a little while? I don't know that we will need to recall you, but don't go until you are released.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you be sworn please.

You do solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. DYER. I do.

TESTIMONY OF BOYCE DYER

The CHAIRMAN. State your name, your place of residence, and your business, occupation or employment, please.

Mr. DYER. My name is Boyce Dyer, and I am employed by the Georgia Department of Agriculture as a director of the market division. My address, business address, is 19 Hunter Street SW., Atlanta 2, Ga.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well, Mr. Dyer. How long have you been so employed?

Mr. DYER. I have been employed by the Georgia Department of Agriculture since April 1, 1955. I have been in my present position since October 1, 1955.

The CHAIRMAN. What are your duties in your present position?

Mr. DYER. My duties are to direct the operation of the Market Division of the Georgia Department of Agriculture, which includes the farm markets which we operate in the State, working with the various commodity groups in the State, and also the market division has in its operation, weights and measures and warehouse.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you have any public relations duties in that capacity?

Mr. DYER. Yes, sir, I would say so.

The CHAIRMAN. There are some that are incidental to your work, is that right?

Mr. DYER. That is right. There is no way, I don't think, that you could carry on or fulfill my duties without having public relations work involved in it.

The CHAIRMAN. I thought as you described it, obviously, there was an element at least of public relations responsibilities.

Mr. DYER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you have a telephone conversation with Mr. Robert Evans, of Midville, Ga., sometime on about the day of May 17, 1961?

Mr. DYER. Yes, sir, I did.

The CHAIRMAN. Who initiated the call?

Mr. DYER. I did, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What time of day?

Mr. DYER. Well, I originally placed the call sometime during the afternoon. I would say it was around 3 or 3:30.

The CHAIRMAN. Sometime in midafternoon?

Mr. DYER. Yes, sir. The call was not completed, so I later completed the call from my home between 8 and 9 o'clock, if I remember correctly.

The CHAIRMAN. What time?

Mr. DYER. Between 8 and 9.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you leave in your call for him, or did he return your call?

Mr. DYER. I cancelled the call when I left the office, and replaced it from my home.

The CHAIRMAN. So actually, the conversation was on a call that you initiated?

Mr. DYER. That is correct, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, will you tell us why you were calling Mr. Evans at that time?

Mr. DYER. Yes, sir. I picked up some information that I felt would be valuable to the Warehouse Association in Georgia, and I passed it on to him. That is why I made the call, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You thought it was important information?

Mr. DYER. I felt like it was information that his organization should know about.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the nature of the information?

Mr. DYER. Well, the information that I passed on to him was that I had, in the form of a rumor, picked it up, that if the National Cotton Council opposed the omnibus farm bill that it might adversely affect the Warehouse Association in their request for an increase in storage rates.

The CHAIRMAN. When did you pick up that information?

Mr. DYER. I believe, if I remember correctly, I picked it up the afternoon on May 17.

The CHAIRMAN. You picked it up the same afternoon?

Mr. DYER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I see. And, after picking it up, you immediately telephoned, or put in a call to Mr. Evans?

Mr. DYER. Yes, sir, shortly after that time.

The CHAIRMAN. The same afternoon, it was?

Mr. DYER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Who did you discuss the information with before you placed the call to Mr. Evans?

Mr. DYER. Well, I didn't discuss it particularly with anyone.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, did you discuss it with anyone before you actually talked to Mr. Evans, then?

Mr. DYER. Not that day, no, sir, I don't believe I did.

The CHAIRMAN. You haven't talked to your boss about it, the commissioner of agriculture?

Mr. DYER. Not at the time that I placed the call.

The CHAIRMAN. Not at the time you first placed the call. Had you talked to him before you actually talked on the call?

Mr. DYER. No, sir; I didn't discuss it with him before I talked on the call.

The CHAIRMAN. You hadn't talked to him at all about it?

Mr. DYER. I might say this: In the course of the conversation in picking up this information, I believe, if I remember correctly, that

the Commissioner was present at the time we were in the process of having some meetings.

The CHAIRMAN. You mean the Commissioner was present and heard what you heard at the time that you picked up the call? Mr. DYER. I believe so, yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You say the Commissioner was present. What is his name?

Mr. DYER. Phil Campbell.

The CHAIRMAN. He heard everything you heard, then?

Mr. DYER. I think he did; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You think he did?

Mr. DYER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, did he suggest that you call Mr. Evans? Did your boss, the Commissioner, suggest, if he heard this same thing you did, did he suggest you call Mr. Evans?

Mr. DYER. I don't believe he did; no, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you tell him you were going to call Mr. Evans? Mr. DYER. No, sir; I didn't.

The CHAIRMAN. Why did you decide to take it on yourself to call Mr. Evans?

Mr. DYER. Well, it is the policy, as I stated before, it is the policy of the Department to try to keep all of the organizations that we work with in the State informed of any information that we have, that we feel is to their benefit to know.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the exact information that you picked up?

Mr. DYER. It is a little bit hard, sir, to exactly put it in the exact words because I made that telephone call on May 17, and at the time I made it I dismissed it from my mind, but I believe it is as I stated before. It was information concerning how it might affect them if the National Cotton Council opposed this omnibus farm bill. The CHAIRMAN. You say you picked that up in a meeting? Mr. DYER. I think so; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You think so? This thing impressed you enough you immediately got to the telephone and called within an hour or two afterwards. What kind of a meeting was it?

Mr. DYER. We were having meetings on setting up a commodity program in the State on various commodities at that time, under some legislation that was passed by the legislature.

The CHAIRMAN. Where was that meeting held?

Mr. DYER. I believe it was in the Commissioner's office.

The CHAIRMAN. You were in the Commissioner's office?

Mr. DYER. I think so.

The CHAIRMAN. Who was present?

Mr. DYER. I couldn't tell you, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Who was present?

Mr. DYER. I don't know. I don't remember who it was at that time.

The CHAIRMAN. You were holding a meeting of that kind, and it had some significance, some importance?

Mr. DYER. That is true, sir, but at that time of the year, we had four different groups that we were working with on this type of legislation, on this type of programs, and I don't remember which group was present that day.

The CHAIRMAN. Can you name anyone else who was present besides yourself?

Mr. DYER. I can't remember who was present other than the Commissioner and I. We held several meetings.

The CHAIRMAN. You and the Commissioner were there?

Mr. DYER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. But you didn't hear this report from the Commissioner, did you?

Mr. DYER. Ì am not positive, sir, who I got the report from.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you hear the Commissioner tell you or convey such a rumor or report to you?

Mr. DYER. I am not positive whether he did or not, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Well now, Mr. Dyer, this thing had such an impact upon your thinking at the time, it was something of such import, that you went to the telephone and called somebody long distance to apprise them of the fact. Can't you tell us now where you got that information?

Mr. DYER. I am not absolutely positive where I got it, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Don't you see now the position that you are placed in here? You actually got this ball rolling, got this information out and called these people. Here is the position you occupy. A thing of this importance to those people down there caused you to call, Here, you had better not testify; you are going to hurt your That is the import of it, and there is no way to escape it. That is exactly what it amounted to. You say at the same time that you placed the call, an hour or two before perhaps, you can't remember who was present and how you got it. Is that correct?

Mr. DYER. That is correct, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How can you happen to remember the call that you made, then? That is, what prompted you to make the call? You made the call and you remember that, but as for the very thing that prompted you to make the call, you mean you can't help us, and you can't clear that up?

Mr. DYER. Well, sir, I am not positive about it, and I would hate to make a statement.

The CHAIRMAN. We hate to do this, too, but people have been reflected on here in Washington in this administration, and God knows I am not defending them. All I want is to get the truth. Now, it has gone out in the press, and it all came from a call that you made to Mr. Evans, telling him that if they did so-and-so, it was hurting their cause so far as getting their rate increase they had asked for was concerned. I don't say that it wasn't proper for you to do that. I assume that it was. You want to protect those folks you work with, or want to keep them informed of things of interest to them, things that they ought to know. Certainly if you heard such a thing, it would be well for you to go and tell them. But now we come back and ask you, “Did you hear it, and did it actually happen, and did you get it from somebody?”

Mr. DYER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You are a businessman. body who is given to gossip.

You are not just some

Where did you get the information? Who made the statement that caused you to think that Washington up here, the Department

of Agriculture, was threatening people or about to impose or invoke reprisals against people if they came up here and testified against this legislation?

Mr. DYER. I am sorry, sir, but I just don't know who I heard say that. I am positive-I am telling you exactly the truth on the thing, and I am not positive where it came from.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, brother, you have certainly caused one lot of trouble by dispensing information, the source of which you are bound to have had contact with at the time you started this thing in motion, and now you don't know who said it.

What do you think about a situation like that? Here it has gotten up to a congressional committee, taking up our time. If it is true, it ought to be known. If anything like that emanated from the Department up here, it ought to be known. If it isn't true, why then there has been a lot of commotion and trouble caused here about nothing.

Now, can you help us?

Mr. DYER. I can't tell you definitely who I got it from; no, sir, I am sorry.

The CHAIRMAN. What did you do when you got it?

Mr. DYER. Could I use this statement? I put it together as best I could, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You may refer to any notes that you have.

Mr. DYER. I sent it to Mr. O'Donnell, and the statement that I made to him is, to the best of my knowledge, I called Mr. Evans on the above date and told him that I had picked up a rumor to the effect that the National Cotton Council intended to oppose the agriculture bill which was now pending in Congress, and that there was a possibility it might have some bearing on whether the cotton warehouse men were able to receive the increase that they were requesting for storing commodity credit cotton.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the letter you wrote. What do you know from memory now? You have read that paragraph from your letter. What do you know from your memory?

Mr. DYER. Well, sir, I put it together as best I could, from my memory in that, and I had no notes on it, and I had no information, and as I stated before, at the time I made the call I called Mr. Evans and gave it to him for his information, for whatever it was worth to them. The CHAIRMAN. All right; what kind of a meeting, now, did you say that you had that day?

Mr. DYER. To the best of my knowledge, sir, we had a commodity meeting.

The CHAIRMAN. A commodity meeting?

Mr. DYER. It was either on milk, eggs, or peanuts, and we had a series of meetings at that time, where we were developing these commodity programs.

The CHAIRMAN. At those meetings, do you keep a record of those who attended and some minutes?

Mr. DYER. Yes. There are minutes kept of them; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you have a copy of the minutes of that meeting?

Mr. DYER. I don't with me; no, sir.

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