STANFORD LEGISLATIVE DRAFTING BUREAU AND LEGISLATIVE REFERENCE DIVISION OF THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS. Washington, D. C. TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 4, 1913. COMMITTEE ON THE LIBRARY, The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m. Present: Senators Wetmore (chairman), Cummins, Root, Newlands, and Swanson; also Senators La Follette and Owen, and Dr. Herbert Putnam, Librarian of Congress. The CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen, we will proceed with the hearing. We have before us two bills; one introduced by Senator La Follette (S. 8337), "To create a Legislative Drafting Bureau and to establish a Legislative Reference Division of the Library of Congress, and the other introduced by Senator Owen (S. 8335), "To establish the Legislative Reference Bureau of the Library of Congress and the congressional corps of legislative investigators, and to maintain them until July 1, 1914." Senate bill 8337 is as follows: A BILL To create a Legislative Drafting Bureau and to establish a Legislative Reference Division of the Library of Congress. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That there is hereby created a bureau to be known as the "Legislative Drafting Bureau." SEC. 2. That the said bureau shall be under the direction of an officer, to be known as the "chief draftsman," to be appointed by the President of the United States, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, without reference to party affiliations, and solely on the ground of fitness to perform the duties of the office. He shall receive a salary of $7,500 per annum, and shall hold office for the term of ten years unless sooner removed by the President upon the recommendation of the Judiciary Committee of both Houses of Congress, acting jointly. SEC. 3. That there shall be in said bureau such assistants as Congress may from time to time provide. They shall be appointed by the chief draftsman solely with reference to their fitness for their particular duties. SEC. 4. That public bills, or amendments to public bills, shall be drafted or revised by the said bureau on request of the President, any committee of either House of Congress, or of eight Members of the Senate or of twenty-five Members of the House of Representatives. The Judiciary Committees of both Houses of Congress acting jointly may, from time to time, prescribe rules and regulations for the orderly conduct of the said bureau. SEC. 5. That the chief draftsman shall submit annually to the Secretary of the Treasury estimates of the appropriations necessary for the maintenance of the said bureau, and shall make to Congress at the beginning of each regular session a report as to the affairs of the said bureau for the preceding fiscal year, which shall include a detailed statement of appropriations and expenditures. SEC. 6. That the Librarian of Congress is authorized and directed to establish in the Library of Congress a division to be known as the "Legislative Reference Division" of the Library of Congress, and to employ competent persons therein to gather, classify, and make available in translations, indexes, digests, compilations, and bulletins, and otherwise, data for a bearing upon legislation, to render such data serviceable to Congress and to the Legislative Drafting Bureau, and to provide in his annual estimates for the compensation of such persons, for the acquisition of material required for their work, and for other expenses incidental thereto. 3 Senator CUMMINS. Senator La Follette, is this to take the place of the Nelson bill? Senator LA FOLLETTE. The plan of Mr. Nelson's bill is somewhat different from my own. His bill creates the reference library and establishes a bill drafting bureau in the reference library. My bill creates a legislative drafting bureau under the control of a chief draftsman,, and establishes a Legislative Reference Division in the Library of Congress. Senator CUMMINS. Then we really have three bills before us. The CHAIRMAN. Two are Senate bills and the other is a House bill. Senator La Follette, whatever statement you would like to make the committee we would be very glad to hear. STATEMENT OF HON. ROBERT M. LA FOLLETTE, UNITED STATES SENATOR FROM WISCONSIN. Senator LA FOLLETTE. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee: I assume that it is unnecessary to take any time upon the general proposition of the advisability of creating a legislative drafting bureau and establishing a Legislative Reference Division in the Library of Congress. The CHAIRMAN. I think you had better make a short statement in regard to that. Senator CUMMINS. My own mind is at rest upon that. The CHAIRMAN. I think the general feeling is favorable. Senator LA FOLLETTE. My own belief is that the committee is of one mind upon that question. I have talked with quite a number of the members. The CHAIRMAN. I think perhaps if you would make a short statement upon that point it would be of value. Senator LA FOLLETTE. Well, Mr. Chairman, perhaps I could not better suggest the desirability of the establishment of a Federal legislative bill-drafting bureau and a legislative reference library than by directing attention to what has been done through such mediums in the different States and abroad. Wisconsin was the first State to establish a legislative reference bureau. In 1901--I was at that time governor of the State-we made the beginning of that which has now grown to be an important institution in Wisconsin. We felt at the outset the necessity of investigation before legislating along many new lines which had been projected as a part of our legislative program, and to that end we established a legislative reference library. Dr. Charles McCarthy was put at the head of the library and while it started in a modest way and with a very small appropriation it built up very rapidly in favor and in efficiency until at the present time it has become quite indispensable. Dr. McCarthy still remains at the head of the library. We have a bill-drafting division within the library; we have stenographers and clerks and draftsmen who have acquired skill and proficiency in the drafting of bills. We began with young and inexperienced men. These men have been trained to the work. The first requirement for a draftsman is an accurate command of English. He should be an able lawyer and a master of legal diction. Senator OWEN. The interpretation of words and phrases, etc.? Senator LA FOLLETTE. Yes, sir. The Wisconsin reference library and drafting bureau has grown, as I say, to be a very important institution. Indeed I think that probably 90 per cent of all the bills introduced into the Wisconsin Legislature pass through the hands of this legislative reference library. Senator OWEN. Is it not affiliated with the University of Wisconsin? Senator LA FOLLETTE. Well, to this extent: The head of the reference library, who is one of the lecturers in the university, is well informed as to available men there, and draws upon the university for whatever assistance he needs. There is a sort of undefined working agreement between the Wisconsin State University and the State government and we are able in that way to avail ourselves of all the technical and expert knowledge of the university in matters pertain-ing to our State government. Senator OWEN. You use the professors there! Senator La FOLLETTE. Very freely. They volunteer their services, and the university and the State government work together. The Wisconsin reference library has furnished many of the men who have taken charge of the legislative reference libraries in the diferent States which have followed the Wisconsin example: 1 know we supplied Indiana and New York and a number of the States. Senator OWEN. Oklahoma has been examining into that system too. Senator LA FOLLETTE. There are quite a large number of States which have been interested in the subject. Mr. Putnam collected quite a list in one of his last reports. Mr. PUTNAM. It was in 1911-a special report to Congress upon that subject. (Senate Document No. 7, republished in this volume.) Senator LA FOLLETTE. It is very encouraging and very inspiring. I do not think that any State that has made a beginning in this direction has thrown it over. I presume the members of this committee who are present have examined the hearing taken before the Committee on Library of the House of Representatives about one year ago. If you have not, I may take a moment to call attention to it briefly. This hearing was had upon a bill introduced by Congressman Nelson of Wisconsin. That bill was the work of a number of gentlemen. I think Mr. Putnam contributed to it. Mr. PUTNAM. There were several bills introduced by Representative Nelson. The bill upon which the hearing proceeded was introduced January 25, 1912. Senator LA FOLLETTE. That bill was then sent to a number of gentlemen for their opinion, and I will read briefly from a few of these who responded. Regarding this bill, Gov. Woodrow Wilson said: I was very glad to hear from you, and I want to assure you that I entirely approve of such legislation as is proposed by bill H. R. 31356. I can only say that * * * it seems to me highly important that a legislative reference department should be established in the Congressional Library. The experience of several of our States in this matter is conclusive as to the great usefulness of such a department. Indeed, I ` think if once established, everyone who had any knowledge of it would deem it indispensable. President A. Lawrence Lowell, of Harvard University, said: The plan of your bill for a Legislative Division in the Congressional Library seems to me an excellent one, for a great many mistakes may be saved and many useful hints obtained by knowing what has been done under similar conditions elsewhere, and at present there is a vast deal of such information of which we are really wholly ignorant. It is not enough to collect it; it must be put in such form that one car use it without enormous labor. The legislative bureau in Wisconsin seems to me to have done excellent work in this direction. All President Charles R. Van Hise, of the University of Wisconsin, said I am very glad, however, to give my unqualified indorsement to the plan. who know the situation in Wisconsin before we had a legislative reference library and since that time appreciate the superiority of the present condition. While the ideas of the members are strictly carried out, the bills are framed in such form that they are not likely to be overturned by the courts because of lack of consideration of other laws and of decisions. * * * I have no doubt that once Congress establishes the bureau proposed the Members will find it of immeasurable assistance to them in getting their bills into satisfactory form. Mr. Robert H. Whitten, librarian-statistician, public-service commission, New York City, said: I find that it will be impossible for me to appear at the hearings. I am, however, strongly in favor of the passage of a measure of this kind. I believe that such a bureau would be a great aid to securing of more efficient and well-considered legislation. The members of this committee may be familiar with these hearings, and if they are Senator OWEN. I think it would be well to point out the more important items, Senator. Senator LA FOLLETTE. They will remember that Ambassador Bryce appeared before this committee and spoke in support of a legislative reference library and a bill-drafting bureau. He informs the committee that for a generation of time Great Britain has employed expert draftsmen to prepare bills for the government. They have an officer whose title is parliamentary counsel. He is an experienced lawyer and a practical draftsman. He receives a salary of $12,500, and has an assistant counsel, who is paid a salary of $10.000. Senator OWEN. Where is that, Senator? Senator LA FOLLETTE. That is in Great Britain. The assistant is also a barrister of experience. Now, then, as a result of that sort of assistance in the preparation of their bills Mr. Bryce makes these four points: He says in the first place they find it a great economy. It has cut off the introduction of bills, and it has simplified the work of the committees; has eliminated a lot of unnecessary labor, has enabled them to avoid the enactment of legislation that was not in harmony with laws that had already been enacted, and their legislation has been in better legal form than ever before. The acts of Parliament are shorter and clearer and better expressed and less litigation arises out of them. The advice of the parliamentary counsel has been found very useful in the work of consolidating the statutes. In my own State-if I may refer to it again, just on this point before leaving it--we were breaking new ground in many directions. We were in danger of enacting legislation which would be overturned by the courts. If we had gone ahead blindly and rashly we should have made a sad mess of it. We never have had but one of all of the laws that were a part of the great body of our progressive legislation set aside by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional. But I must say that I believe from our experience in Wisconsin that it would be unwise to establish a legislative reference library and in that legislative reference library locate the bill-drafting bureau or "Legislative Drafting Bureau," as I have designated it in this bill. It is for that reason that I have drawn the bill in the form presented to this committee. Senator Roor. The bill under consideration to-day is a redraft of the bill considered informally here a few days ago? Senator LA FOLLETT. Yes, sir; it is. Senator CUMMINS. May I ask a question in order to make this matter clear? Your plan is to make the drafting bureau entirely distinct from the Congressional Library? Senator LA FOLLETTE. Yes, sir. Senator CUMMINS. The only connection is that the library must furnish information to the drafting bureau? Senator LA FOLLETTE. Yes, sir. I believe, Senator Cummins, that the Legislative Drafting Bureau and the legislative reference library should be side by side. I think they should be located close together. Senator CUMMINS. I am speaking legally. Senator LA FOLLETTE. Yes. But I believe that we will get better results if the chief draftsman is appointed by some one other than the head of the Legislative Drafting Bureau. I believe that the legislative reference library should be accessible to every Member of Congress so that he can secure the latest reliable data on every problem of legislation. I believe that the bill-drafting bureau should not be at the command of every Member of Congress for the drafting of every bill he may desire to introduce. It is necessary for the protection of the drafting bureau that there shall be some limitation of the demands which may be made upon it. I think that the President and the congressional committees should be authorized to call upon the Legislative Drafting Bureau to formulate bills. Senator RooT. When you are through with your general remarks I would like to ask you about a specific thing in this redrafted bill. · Senator LA FOLLETTE. If a Member has an idea regarding some important matter of proposed ligislation which is of such general interest that he can get the support of a group of Members to join with him in requesting that a bill be drawn, then I think he ought to have the services of the bureau to put that idea into the best legislative phraseology possible. In first introducing this bill I provided that 3 Senators or 10 Members of the House might have the services of the Legislative Drafting Bureau if they joined in requesting it. I think that too small a number, and I have changed it to 8 Senators or 25 Members of the House. Senator ROOT. I wanted to ask you a question right there: Whether the terms of section 4 as they now stand in your redrafted bill would confer authority upon the Judiciary Committee acting jointly to prescribe the kind of information or to prescribe what is desired from the drafting bureau. When the 8 Members of the Senate or the 25 Members of the House-the group of which you speak---calls upon the drafting bureau to draft a bill they should give the head of the bureau pretty definite information about what they want. We talked about it here the other day and the idea was that the Judiciary Committees of the two Houses would prescribe that. this language give them that authority? To prescribe rules and regulations for the orderly conduct of said bureau. Is that broad enough to permit them to prescribe what this group of 8 Senators or 25 Members shall furnish to the drafting bureau as a condition precedent to getting a bill out? |