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XV.

Chapter treated in the same manner as if he had been guilty of a similar contempt to the house itself. Witnesses, however, are not summoned from India or the colonies; but application is made to the secretary of state to secure their attendance, or to obtain answers to written questions.1

2

and records

In 1849, the Fisheries (Ireland) committee was appointed, For papers with power to send for papers and records only, but only. examined witnesses who voluntarily tendered their evidence. By this arrangement, the expense of witnesses summoned in the usual manner was avoided.

A select committee on a bill, having power to send for persons, papers, and records, can only take evidence concerning that bill, unless the scope of its inquiries be enlarged by an instruction.3

papers require an address.

A select committee have no power to send for any papers Where which, if required by the house itself, would be sought by address (see p. 536). In such cases, the chairman may either move an address in the house, or communicate with the secretary of state to whose department the papers relate, who will lay them before Parliament if he thinks proper, by command of his Majesty. The papers, when received, will then be referred to the committee by the house. Nor is a committee at liberty to send for any papers which, according to the rules and practice of the house, it is not usual for the house itself to order. In the committee on the Thames Embankment, in 1871, objections were raised to the production of a case laid before the law officers of the Crown, on the ground that such a document was not usually required to be produced by the house itself (see p. 338): but when it appeared that the opinion formed upon the case had been presented, the production of the case, upon which that opinion was founded, could not be resisted, and it was presented to the committee."

In 1858, the select committee on the Boundaries of Special inBoroughs had leave to receive and call for maps, memorials,

1 Army (India and the Colonies) committee, 1867, &c.

2 104 C. J. 75.

3 190 H. D. 3 s. 1869.

• Minutes of the committee, pp. iv.-vi.

quiries.

Appointment discharged.

Presence of

XV.

reports, papers, and records concerning the said boroughs, Chapter and to confer with the boundary commissioners, and those employed under them in their inquiries, and with the members of the counties and boroughs affected.1

The select committee of the Lords on the Sweating System was empowered by a resolution of their house to employ a gentleman to visit the localities where the existence of the system was alleged, and to examine into the evidence proposed to be submitted to the committee.2

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made with

Orders for the appointment of select committees are See motions occasionally discharged; and other committees, with out notice, different orders of reference, appointed.1

During the sitting of a select committee of the Lords, strangers. under standing order No. 56 strangers may be excluded.

All lords

but not

vote.

Any lord is entitled, by standing order No. 55, to attend may come, the select committees of that house, and is not excluded from coming in and speaking, but he must not vote, a privilege that does not extend to a secret committee. Commons. In the Commons, the presence of strangers during the Strangers. sitting of select committees is generally permitted. Their exclusion, however, may be ordered at any time, and continued as long as the committee may think fit. When they are deliberating, it is the invariable practice to exclude strangers.5

Presence of members.

Members of the House of Commons have claimed the right of being present, as well during the deliberations of a committee as while the witnesses are examined; and although, if requested to retire, they would rarely make any objection, on the grounds of established usage and of courtesy to the committee, they ought immediately to retire when the committee are about to deliberate; yet it appears

1123 C. J. 183.

120 L. J. 455.

393 C. J. 265; 99 ib. 300; 108 ib. 487; 109 ib. 251; 147 ib. 214, 223. For an instance of the discharge of the order for the committal of a bill to a select committee, see 150 C. J. 213.

4 Conventual, &c. Institutions,

1870, 125 ib. 169.

Any member of a select committee has a right to have the room cleared if he wishes to take the opinion of the committee upon any matter arising, select committee on Lands Acts (Ireland), Parl. Paper, No. 310, sess. 1894, pp. xxix. and

XXX.

p. 244.

Chapter that the committee, in case of their refusal, have no power to order them to withdraw.

XV.

against the

On the 24th April, 1626, Mr. Glanvyle, from the select Precedents. committee on the charges against the Duke of Buckingham, Charges stated that exceptions were taken by some members of the Duke of Buckinghouse against the examinations being kept private, without ham. admitting some other members thereof, and desired the direction of the house. It is evident from this statement that the committee had exercised a power of excluding members; and though it is said in the journal that much dispute arose upon the general question, "whether the members of the house, not of a select committee, may come to the select committee," no general rule was laid down: but in that particular case the house ordered

"That no member of the house shall be present at the debate, disposition, or penning of the business by the select committee: but only to be present at the examination, and that without interposition."

well.

An opinion somewhat more definite may be collected from East India judicature. the proceedings of the Indian Judicature committee, in 1782. In that case the committee were about to deliberate upon Mr. Barthe refusal of Mr. Barwell to answer certain questions; and on the room being cleared, he insisted upon his privilege, as a member of the house, of being present during the debate. The committee observed that as Mr. Barwell was the party concerned in that debate, they thought he had no right to be present. Mr. Barwell still persisted in his right, and two members attended the Speaker, and returned with his opinion, that Mr. Barwell had no right to insist upon being present during the debate; upon which Mr. Barwell withdrew. Here the ground taken by the committee for his exclusion was that he was concerned in the debate, and not simply that, as a member, he had no right to be present at their deliberations. The house soon afterwards ordered

"That when any matter shall arise on which the said committee wish to debate, it shall be at their discretion to require every person, not being a member of the committee, to withdraw."

1 1 C. J. 849.

King's

XV.

The inference from this order must be that the committee Chapter would not otherwise have been authorized to exclude a member of the house.1

When committees were appointed to examine the physiphysicians. cians of King George III., in 1810 and 1811, the house also ordered, "That no member of this house, but such as are members of the committee, be there present." a

Irish poor committee,

On the 23rd February, 1849, in the case of the Irish Poor 1849. committee, the Speaker stated, that although it had been the practice for members, not being members of the committee, to withdraw while the committee were deliberating or dividing; yet if members persisted in remaining, the committee have no power to exclude them, unless by order of the house; and the house acts upon this decision.3

General results.

Secret committees.

As members cannot be excluded from a committee room by the authority of the committee, if the occasion should arise, the committee must apply to the house for power to effect their exclusion. At the same time, it may be observed, that such applications are not favourably entertained by the house.1

But when, in the opinion of the house, secrecy ought to be maintained, secret committees are appointed,5 whose inquiries are conducted throughout with closed doors; and it is the invariable practice for all members, not on the committee, to be excluded from the room throughout the whole of its proceedings."

1

1 38 C. J. 370; see also Election Proceedings committee, 1842, 97 ib. 438.

2 66 ib. 6; 67 ib. 17.

102 H. D. 3 s. 1183.

See Election Proceedings committee, 1842, 97 C. J. 438; Army before Sebastopol committee, 1st March, 1855, 137 H. D. 3 s. 18; Rochdale Election case, 20th June, 1857, 146 H. D. 3 s. 137; and Complaint, 16th May, 1861, 162 ib. 2095.

5 52 L. J. 115; 38 C. J. 430. 435; 65 ib. 37; 66 ib. 6; 67 ib. 17; 72 ib. 318; 92 ib. 26; 99 ib. 461; 112 ib. 24.

"In the course of the debate (on

the committee of secrecy on the
Bank of England), Mr. Fox and
Mr. Grey both stated distinctly and
expressly, and without contradic-
tion, that the nature of a committee
of secrecy was only that it excluded
from their proceedings all strangers:
but that the members of the com-
mittee were not otherwise bound to
individual secrecy out of the com-
mittee, than as their own sense of
duty or propriety might suggest,
according to the nature and object
of their inquiry."-Lord Colchester's
Diary, 9th March, 1797, i. 91. For
a discussion as to the peculiarities
of a secret committee, see debates

Chapter
XV.

See also p. 395.

Members attending

select com

secure

places in the house,

Personal

interest in

ings of

Generally speaking, the proceedings of a select com- Proceedmittee are assimilated, like those of standing committees, select comto those of a committee of the whole house.

mittees.

chosen.

In a select committee, however, the first proceeding is Chairman to choose a chairman, who is ordinarily called to the chair by the general voice of the members present: but if a difference of opinion should arise, the choice is obtained by the procedure observed by the house in the election of a Speaker.1

Members attending the sittings of a committee may sit Divisions. or stand without being uncovered. Every question is mittees may determined in a select committee in the same manner as in the house to which it belongs. In the Lords' committee, see p. 178. the chairman votes like any other peer; and, if the numbers on a division be equal, the question is negatived, in accorda vote, see ance with the ancient rule of the House of lords, "Semper præsumitur pro negante." In the Commons, the practice in a select committee, not being a private bill committee (see p. 791), is similar to that observed in divisions of the house itself, pursuant to the resolution of the house: "That, Casting according to the established rules of Parliament, the chair- chairman. man of a select committee can only vote when there is an equality of voices." 2

p. 378.

voice of

But to suit the composition of committees on private Combills, which ordinarily consist of four members,3 under

upon the budget and navy estimates,
22nd Feb. 1848, 96 H. D. 3 s. 987.
1056; Bank Acts committee, 12th
Feb. 1857, 144 ib. 596.

1 Minutes of Committees; Sav-
ings Banks, 1849; Bills of Exchange
Bill, 1855; Rochdale Election, 1857;
Tenure and Improvement of Land
(Ireland) Act, 1865; Railways, 1881;
Public Accounts, 1894.

2 25th March, 1836, 91 C. J. 214. In the committee on the Consolidation of the Customs and Inland Revenue, 1863, Mr. Horsfall, the chairman, had prepared a report, which was negatived by a majority of one. Mr. Cardwell then proposed a report embodying the opinions of

the majority: but at the next meet-
ing of the committee, Mr. Horsfall
declined to resume the chair, and
proposed that Mr. Cardwell should
take it, his object being to obtain
a majority in favour of his own
views. The matter being referred
to Mr. Speaker, he expressed an
opinion that the course proposed
was contrary to the spirit of parlia-
mentary proceedings, and Mr. Hors-
fall resumed the chair: but a
committee so balanced being unable
to agree, they merely reported the
evidence without any opinion.—Mr.
Speaker Denison's Diary, p. 145.
3 119 C. J. 460.

mittees on

private

bills.

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