The CHAIRMAN. How do they arise? Does someone petition you where there is a labor difficulty, either the employer or the employees? Senator WAGNER. Yes. One side or the other asks us to intervene, and sometimes we even intrude where we think think a strike is imminent which we may prevent. The Board has not done its work dramatically or spectacularly, but I think has made an extraordinary contribution toward preserving industrial peace.

The CHAIRMAN. It is all voluntary, I assume?
Senator WAGNER. Yes, it is all voluntary.

The CHAIRMAN. And have you worked out your own regulations and methods of procedure?

Senator WAGNER. Yes, we have. We have 20 regional boards through the country, upon which serve the most eminent citizens available in the various communities. They work without compensation and have rendered an effective and patriotic service.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any statistics available as to the number of strikes that have taken place since the N.R.A. began to operate? Senator WAGNER. We have available statistics of those of which we are cognizant. We have made reports on that.

The CHAIRMAN. Could we have it?

Senator WAGNER. I shall be delighted to bring them.

The CHAIRMAN. I understood you to say that 75 percent of these strikes that have come to your attention have been due directly or indirectly to the failure of the employer to recognize the rights of the employee to organize as of their own choosing?

Senator WAGNER. Exactly; the disputes were not always strikes, for we have prevented

The CHAIRMAN. Threatened strikes?

Senator WAGNER. Yes, exactly, where there have been disputes involved.

Senator LA FOLLETTE. I want to suggest, Mr. Chairman, that it might be well to have those statistics that you refer to incorporated at the conclusion of Senator Wagner's testimony so that they will be in the record.

Senator WAGNER. I will present them.

(The statistics referred to by Senator La Follette, presented by Senator Wagner, follow:)

TABLE I.-Regional labor boards' summary

TABLE IV.-National and regional labor boards' summary

SUMMARY OF TABLES OF NATIONAL AND REGIONAL LABOR BOARDS

Total cases: National, 190; regional, 1,628; total, 1,818.

Cases settled: National, 132; regional, 1,121; total, 1,253. Of these, cases settled by agreements were: National, 103; regional, 533; total, 636. Settled by decisions: National, 29; regional, 254; total, 283.

Total workers involved: National, 400,000; regional, 514,000; total, 914,000. Strikes: National, 132, involving 325,000; regional, 467, involving 170,000; total, 599, involving 495,000.

Strikes settled: National, 107, involving 213,000; regional, 371, involving 131,000; total, 478, involving 344,000 (strikers returned to work).

Strikes averted: National, 24, involving 33,500; regional, 173, involving 105,500; total, 197, involving 139,000 (kept at work).

Workers reinstated (exclusive of strike figures) after charges of discrimination, unjust layoffs, etc.: Regional, 6,852.

Cases pending: National, 27; regional, 295 (incomplete); total, 322. In addition, National referred 25 to regional boards).

Causes of complaint

Alleged violation of section 7(a) (collective bargaining, union discharge for union activity, interference, etc.): National, 145; regional, 777 (incomplete); total, 922. Wage demands: National, 37; regional, 241; (incomplete) total, 278. Reduced weekly earnings (generally under shortened code hours): Regional, 43. Elections supervised: National, 39; regional, 58; total, 97. Cases jointly submitted for arbitration: National, 11; regional, 59; total, 70.

The CHAIRMAN. I think we also ought to have in the record the language of section 7 (a) to which you refer, and which I notice was not set forth in your speech.

Senator WAGNER. All right.

The CHAIRMAN. I think it is rather necessary to have that in view of your basing your reasons for this legislation upon the misinterpretation of the section and failure of it to function clearly in the interests of the employees.

(Section 7 (a) of the National Industrial Recovery Act is as follows:) 7 (a) Every code of fair competition, agreement, and license approved, prescribed, or issued under this title shall contain the following conditions: (1) That employees shall have the right to organize and bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing and shall be free from the interference, restraint, or coercion of the employers of labor, or their agents, and the designation of such representatives or in self-organization or any other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or their mutual aid or protection; (2) That no employee, and no one seeking employment, shall be required as a condition of employment to join any company union or to refrain from joining, organizing, or assisting a labor organization of his own choosing; and (3) That employers shall comply with the maximum hours of labor, minimum rates of pay, and other conditions of employment, approved or prescribed by the President.

Senator WAGNER. My own view has always been, Mr. Chairman, that the present company-dominated union is a violation of section 7 (a) as it exists today. But I do not know what the courts would do, and there have been others administering the law who differ with my interpretation. This bill is simply to carry out what I believe is in the intent of Congress.

Senator LA FOLLETTE. One other question, Senator: Is it your view or is it not that this legislation is permanent in character, and that the services to be rendered by the Board which the bill would establish would be rendered regardless of congressional or executive determination or as to the continuance of the National Industrial Recovery Administration?

Senator WAGNER. Oh, yes; this is permanent legislation. create a permanent body and, I think, a very essential one. it is a great step forward.

It is to

I think

The CHAIRMAN. Have there been attempts in the Department of Labor to do some conciliatory work in connection with strikes and have they met with success?

Senator WAGNER. The difficulty is that no power exists.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Thomas desires to ask you a question. Senator THOMAS. Senator Wagner, you have connected up and linked up this proposed legislation very well with your experience in the last few months; will you go a little further and link it up with the evolution of labor legislation in the past, so we can see if it is a permanent evolutionary development or whether it is rather sporadic, growing out of that which has happened lately?

Senator WAGNER. I think that for a great many years, Senator, those who have been interested in avoiding industrial strife and bringing about industrial peace and industrial democracy have advocated some board of mediation, conciliation, and arbitration when both parties submit. In addition, they have believed that there ought to be some powers existing for the prevention of certain practices which interfere with equality of bargaining power.

I think it has been recognized that, due to our industrial growth, it is simply absured to say that an individual, one of 10,000 workers, is on an equality with his employer in bargaining for his wages. The worker, if he does not submit to the employers terms, faces ruin for his family. The so-called freedom of contract does not exist under such circumstances.

The only way that the worker will be accorded the freedom of contract to which, under our theory of government, he is entitled, is by the intrusion of the Government to give him that right, by protecting collective bargaining. When 10,000 come together and collectively bargain with the employer, then there is equality of bargaining power. That is all this legislation attempts to preserve, and I think it is a matter of evolution.

The CHAIRMAN. It need not be unanimous; a majority have that right, that is your view?

Senator WAGNER. Yes; it must be that way or you will never get anywhere.

Senator LA FOLLETTE. This is an application, is it not, of the same general principle which was involved in the Railway Labor Act, to the entire industrial field?

Senator WAGNER. Exactly; it is a development of that legislation, of course.

Senator THOMAS. Do you assume this is broad enough and general enough to cover our complex conditions as they exist in the different parts of the country?

Senator WAGNER. I think so.

Senator THOMAS. There has been a review, or, rather, a survey, made of various parts of the country in various industries and various Occupations attempting to bring this bill into effect, has there not? Senator WAGNER. Yes. Of course, this legislation, like all other legislation of its kind, is always for the recalcitrant minority. I will say that the majority of employers, by far, want to deal fairly with their employees, but the minority prevent them from doing so.

The CHAIRMAN. I am surprised to have you tell us, Senator, that your greatest difficulty has been with the group that employ the largest number of employees; that is, the bigger industries.

Senator WAGNER. Exactly. They have regarded

The CHAIRMAN. Is that true in the commercial field also? Do you think the bigger commercial dealers have exercised the same attitude toward their employees?

Senator WAGNER. Well, usually in commercial lines there is less difficulty. We have not had, as I recall it, any great difficulties. It has been primarily in the major industries, the large industries.

Of course, the N.R.A. and the fixation of hours has brought to the surface a great deal more exploitation of labor than I think any of us realized existed in this country. We have a tremendous problem ahead of us. Give the worker the right to organize and collectively bargain and he will eventually remedy that type of exploitation.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be pleased, Senator, to have you keep in touch with us during the course of these hearings and participate in the questioning.

Senator WAGNER. Thank you very much.

The CHAIRMAN. I observe the Secretary of Labor is in the room. Will you come forward, Miss Perkins?

STATEMENT OF HON. FRANCES PERKINS, SECRETARY OF LABOR

Secretary PERKINS. I am here this morning, sir, at your request, to express my very great interest in this measure, and to say that I think it is one of the most important which has been before the Senate in a long time.

The bill, as you know, has three titles, title 1, dealing with certain substantive provisions which are to establish clearly the practices; title 2, establishing a Labor Board to exercise judicial authority with regard to whether or not the fair labor practices described in title 1 have in effect been lived up to in any given case; and title 3, giving a clear statutory basis for the conciliation service in the Department of Labor.

I want to point out that, if I may, sir, discuss title 2 first, I should like to do so.

The CHAIRMAN. You may proceed as you choose.

Secretary PERKINS. Title 2, establishing the Labor Board, seems to me to be a very important step forward in our progress of management of our community life and a step forward in the practice of democracy, for we have undoubtedly recognized in the last 10 years a very great disparity between the opportunities of workers to determine the conditions of their work and the opportunities of their employers to determine those conditions, and yet, under our democratic form, we have held that all men should be equal in respect to the performance of all of the obligations.

We have found it necessary under the development of our common law and our statute law, to provide for judicial tribunals to determine certain items which men even in a Democracy were not able to adjudicate fairly for themselves, and, so, it seems to me, we have come to the time when the establishment of a judicial tribunal to determine certain things in the relationship between employers and employees is definitely indicated, and that we shall be making real progress in an orderly and democratic life if we establish on a permanent basis a national labor board which shall have certain very definite powers and duties which we all understand.