attending them showed that they had made considerable way amongst the Roman Catholics of Ireland. There was one other matter to which he would allude. It was impossible to dissever this question from the subsidiary questions of intermediate and primary education. It was impossible for those who were supporters of the Amendment to deny that the principles they wished applied to University education applied with equal force to intermediate and primary education. With these few words, he should conclude by expressing his determination to give his hearty vote against the Amendment. MR. SULLIVAN could assure the Chief Secretary for Ireland that his speech that evening would be received with something very like dismay by many persons in Ireland, who had, hitherto, been disposed to believe that Her Majesty's Government, being true to the principles of the Conservative Party in England, would do something for the service of University education in Ireland. There was no doubt in the world that one of the questions that had most largely divided the Irish people from the Liberal Party in this country had been that of education. For his own part, with most of his sympathies in full accord with the Liberal Party in this country, since he had come into that House he had, on this great question of education, painfully felt himself tending further and further from them, and coming into unity of action with hon. Gentlemen opposite, whom he had frequently heard asserting on the floor of the House the same principles of morality and religion in connection with University and public education that were dear to the hearts of the Irish people. But to those in Ireland who had marked the tone of Conservative feeling on this subject, and had marked the noble attitude of the Conservative Party on religious education in England, it was painful to see that no sooner was it attempted to apply their principles across the Channel, to a people who had been long kept in statutory ignorance, than the application of the principles to Ireland was refused. It was but a few years ago that Lord Mayo had made a proposition on this subject, which flatly contradicted the proposition of the present Chief Secretary for Ireland; for if there was need of dealing with this sub ject then, and of dealing with it in the radical way in which Lord Mayo proposed, how could the Chief Secretary get up and tell the House that there was no urgency now in this matter? Lord Mayo, in 1868, thought the matter one deserving instant attention; and its magnitude had grown with years, and increased every day. For his own part, he had no desire to misrepresent the issue; but he was aware that hon. Gentlemen in that House had hitherto been prejudiced against this demand of their's for University education. He could understand such a prejudice, and made considerable allowance for the opposition caused by it. The people of England and hon. Gentlemen in that House were assured that there was no desire for a Roman Catholic University on the part of the Roman Catholic laity in Ireland, and that the demand was only made by the Priests and Prelates for purposes of their own. That phase of the question was passed, and although those who now put forward the demand in the House did not for one moment repudiate the just and legitimate influence of the Clergy and Bishops, yet they emphatically denied that the demand did not emanate from the people of Ireland. He, for one, was returned by his constituency against the influence of the justly revered and respected Roman Catholic Prelate having jurisdiction in Louth County; and in putting forward the demand that night, he did it because of no episcopal or clerical dictation or control, but heartily and thoroughly at the instance and in the interests of the Roman Catholic laity of Ireland. He would take the House so far into his confidence as to tell them the history of the Bill promoted by the hon. and learned Member for Limerick City (Mr. Butt). It emanated from a joint committee of students of Trinity College, of the Catholic University, and of the Queen's Colleges in Ireland, by whom the original of the scheme was drawn up without the knowledge of a single Roman Catholic Bishop, and almost against the wishes of some of them who came to hear of it. The Bill was framed as a bond fide endeavour by the students of the Colleges he had mentioned, to see if they could not devise some kind of measure to deal with the just requirements of the people of Ireland in the matter of University education. Out of the meeting of that joint committee came | Member for Hackney (Mr. Fawcett) a series of resolutions, which were sub- would not succeed, nor had it. The mitted to the hon. and learned Gentle- portals of Trinity College were indeed man the Member for Limerick City; open to all; but it was a mockery to and that was the origin of the Bill laid offer them that for the University they before the House a Session or two ago. desired. No King or Queen that ever It was not concocted by Bishops or sat upon the English Throne would have Priests, but it was the proposal of the dared to propose to the people of EngRoman Catholic laity of Ireland, who land such a proposition as was made to were determined that they would no them, or would have attempted to inflict longer submit to be deprived of Uni- upon England a University which was versity education. The Chief Secretary as foreign to its sympathies as was the had reminded the House that a Ministry University system which was now forced had been beaten upon this question. It upon the people of Ireland. And if the was because their proposition did not people of England were deprived for 50 rise to the level of the occasion. Nothing years of a University system in accord short of a statesmanlike solution of the with their conscientious feelings, how question would be of any avail. The would the progress of the country be right hon. Gentleman had further said stopped? He put it to the House that their demands were uniformly whether it was not their right and duty extravagant and impracticable. How to accord to the Irish people a Univermuch, or how little, would he have them sity system in accord with their conask? Would he have them accept less sciences and feelings. He appealed to than an equality with England, or did their generosity to give them what they he think they would ask more? But of asked for in this matter. By hateful one thing he might be sure; that with and disgraceful Statutes, the Irish anything less than equality they would people had been kept in educational never be satisfied. They were also told bondage and deprived of the blessings that Trinity College was open to Roman which this country had enjoyed, and Catholics, Protestants, and Dissenters, they had some claim on the generosity and that there were no longer any re- of the English people. strictions. If that were true, what necessity was there for the Queen's Colleges ? If hon. Members who put that excuse before the House believed in it, the necessity for the Queen's Colleges in Ireland was gone. Could it be said that the Roman Catholic University in Ireland, struggling as it was, had not produced men who had grown up with the same liberty of thought as was found in any other University? But when it was said Trinity College was open to Roman Catholics as well as Protestants, he must make one observation. Not for one moment did he wish to disparage the position of Trinity College, glorious in its traditions, and still honoured by every educated Irishman, or to detract from the good that it had done for Ireland. He was sure no Roman Catholic in Ireland would seek to injure it; but he regretted that Trinity College had lent itself to a false attitude against the Roman Catholics, and was not true to the principles upon which it was founded, when it preferred a partial secularization, lest justice and equality should be granted to a Catholic Institution. He had prophesied that the Bill of the hon. Question put. The House divided: AYES. Agnew, R. V. Bates, E. Blackburne, Col. J. I. Brise, Colonel R. Broadley, W. H. H. Ayes 200; Brown, A. H. Bulwer, J. R. Burrell, Sir W. W. Cameron, D. Campbell - Bannerman, Cecil, Lord E. H. B. G. Clive, Col. hon. G. W. Cordes, T. Corry, hon. H. W. L. Cotton, W. J. R. MR. BIGGAR wished to point out to the hon. Baronet that he had not explained why counsels' fees were necessary, nor why so unreasonable a sum as £1,000 a-year was paid to a solicitor. Resolutions agreed to. quently extended over several days; be- | men would be absorbed into other offices cause, in the nature of the case, the and omitted from the list. stipendiary could give only the fragments of his time which remained after the ordinary work of the police court was finished. This caused very great expense, more especially to the captains whose cases were under consideration. So far as he was aware the magistrates had not been guilty of any neglect of duty in the holding of these inquiries. It was, no doubt, right that these disasters should be inquired into by a competent Court and by competent officials; and he was not complaining of any matter, except that the jurisdiction having been taken from the local magistrates a very unnecessary expense had been cast upon the captains having to attend these investigations. expenses MR. GOURLEY referred to the large caused on the inquiries held by the stipendiary magistrates at South Shields, compared with that expended when they were conducted by local magistrates. Masters and officers belonging to Sunderland, Seaham, and Hartlepool were compelled to go to South Shields, and wait the convenience of the stipendiary magistrates. This involved a serious loss of time, as well as of expense, without any corresponding benefit; hence he considered that the time had come for a revision of the present system of inquiry. He held that until a Wreck Commissioner was appointed for the North, the inquiries there ought to be held before the local magistrates. VISCOUNT SANDON said, that he quite understood the grievance which had been referred to. It would receive due attention and consideration at the hands of the Government. MR. BIGGAR wished for some explanation as to the salary of a solicitor. at £1,000 a-year, and £600 for counsels' fees, besides the salaries for three clerks. He could not understand how there could be any employment for a counsel. at all. SIR HENRY SELWIN-IBBETSON explained that the officials alluded to were winding up a certain number of cases which had been left outstanding. When the work on which they were employed had ceased then their offices would be abolished, and, as recommended by the Commission, the gentle VOL. CCXL. [THIRD SERIES.] ENDOWED SCHOOLS AND HOSPITALS (SCOTLAND) BILL.-[Lords.]-[BILL 157.] SECOND READING. Order for Second Reading read. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second time." SIR EDWARD COLEBROOKE said, he had no objection to the Government taking the second reading of the Bill, on the understanding that it would give an opportunity of considering the principles raised by it before the House went into Committee on the Bill. MR. CAMPBELL - BANNERMAN said, he had pleasure in supporting the second reading of the Bill. 1156 Second Reading-Local Government Provisional | 180 tons. It is perfectly clear, therefore, Orders (Droitwich, &c.) * (94); Elementary that, even supposing they had been able Education Provisional Order Confirmation to get at the cables, which has not been (Mickleover)* (92). Committee Public Health Act (1875) Amend- LORD ELPHINSTONE: I have heard the case, they would have been quite insufficient to move the ship in the way suggested. PUBLIC HEALTH ACT (1875) AMEND. COMMITTEE. Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee, read. Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee. EARL DE LA WARR said, that some of the provisions of the measure would bear very hardly upon the owners of cottage property and others, which would entail unreasonable expense. He thought that careful inquiry into the details of its provisions was desirable, and he begged, therefore, to move that it be referred to a Select Committee. Amendment moved, to leave out all the words after ("That") and insert (“the Bill be referred to a Select Committee.") (The Earl De La Warr.) EARL COWPER thought that before their Lordships intrusted the rural sanitary authorities with increased powers they ought to inquire into the way the work already intrusted to them was discharged by those bodies. It appeared to him that in some instances they had performed their functions in a very unsatisfactory manner. In many cases the members quarrelled among themselves and did nothing else; in other instances they were completely in the hands of their medical officer; and in others everything was carried against the single representatives of a parish by the persons who represented the other parishes. it said that had the means to which the noble Lord refers been adopted the Eurydice would have been raised ere now; but perhaps the best way I can answer the Question is by illustration of the very small power of even one of our very largest iron-clads to move a weight at rest. Take, for example, the Hercules, a ship of 7,200 tons, with a nominal horse-power of 1,200, but capable of working up to between 7,000 or 8,000. She would be unable to move a body at rest of more than from 40 to 50 tons. This enormous mass, exerting a force of 7,000 or 8,000 horse-power, would be, as it were, anchored by a weight of between 40 and 50 tons; and so in the case of the Eurydice. When she sank she LORD NORTON observed, that whatrepresented a weight in iron and stores ever might be thought of rural saniof from 150 to 180 tons, and that was, tary authorities they were established, therefore, the weight that had to be and he deprecated arresting the promoved. Suppose, for the sake of argu-gress of the Bill, which had been ment, they had been able to get the ends of her two lower cables up the day after she sank-the breaking strain of each cable is equal to 64 tons-they would, therefore, have been together unequal to a strain of more than 120 tons-the weight to be moved being from 150 to brought forward a second time by pri vate Members of the other House fully competent to deal with the subject, while the Government had not found time or opportunity to deal with the subject more perfectly. Nevertheless, he regretted the re-commencement of patch |