sible to apply that money to the purpose for which it was originally intended. What with mining rights, the character of the soil, the difference in climate, and other difficulties, it had been found almost impossible to meet with land at a low level in the Northern parts of this country with a sufficient area of open space to afford a tactical ground which would be of practical value. Over and over again it had been thought that such and such a place would answer the purpose. One was found to be cut up with mining and other rights which would interfere with its free use, while another was found to be on too high a level with such inequality of ground as to render it practically useless. These difficulties occurred year after year, and the completion of a Northern tactical station became more and more pressing. Therefore, his noble Friend, looking at the use to which this money was originally destined, and regarding as a secondary consideration the locality in which that use was to be exercised, thought that he should be acting in the spirit in which the money was voted if he applied it in increasing the existing training grounds, and in giving opportunities for regiments in the North to be trained at the great training grounds which they already possessed. The question had been before Parliament on many occasions. In 1876 his noble Friend distinctly stated that the question mentioned by his Predecessor of a tactical station in the North of England still remained in abeyance; but he added that negotiations were going on for the purchase of land suitable for the purpose. Inasmuch as some of the money had been applied with the consent of the Treasury to an extension of land at Aldershot, where Northern regiments could be trained, he thought he might claim that the spirit, if not the letter, of the Vote had been fulfilled. With regard to the remarks of the hon. Member for Reading (Mr. Shaw Lefevre), he thought his hon. Friend, when he objected to give to the War Office power over the land at Aldershot, seemed to forget that a much smaller area would be placed under the control of the Department than it was originally intended to obtain in another place. As regarded the transfer from one Vote to another, that was in itself a most important matter; but the power of trans

Colonel Stanley

fer with the consent of the Treasury was expressly given to the Naval and Military Departments by Act of Parliament. His hon. and gallant Friend opposite (Mr. Hayter) had called attention to the manifold deficiencies which, unhappily, continued to exist in the establishment of the Militia Force. Now, as far as the scope of his Resolution went, his hon. and gallant Friend was teaching a very willing disciple; for his hon. and gallant Friend cited as his text the Report of a Committee over which he himself presided two or three years years ago. Undoubtedly, the discrepancy existing between the establishment and the enrolled members of the Militia, showed a state of things which was far from satisfactory. At the same time, it should be borne in mind that the conditions under which the Militia served rendered it impossible to contrast with fairness and accuracy the number of absentees with the absentees from ordinary regiments. He ventured to say that if the men in a regiment of the Line were allowed to go back to civil life for 11 months in the year, that circumstance would, to a great extent, account for many of these absentees, although he freely admitted that even then there would be a large number of whom it would be impossible to give a satisfactory account. His hon. and gallant Friend had taken three principal classes-from the metropolitan, the mining, and the agricultural districts respectively. Now, it should be remembered that at the present time the Militia was at about its worst. Considerable` disturbance was given to that Force by Lord Cardwell's scheme for the localization of regiments, which, for some years, he was sorry to say, produced among the men an indifference to comply with those engagements into which they had formally entered. The men, instead of being in the pleasant places they expected, found themselves suddenly transferred far away to the middle of a large camp or garrison, to perform duties very different, perhaps, from those which they looked for when they joined. But though, on the whole, the localization scheme appeared to be very carefully worked out, he did not feel sure that the original allocation of the Militia regiments was such as, after more experience, could be accepted without some slight modifications. He always enter

tained the opinion that those who framed the regulations must have had some vague notion of compulsory service, inasmuch as their calculations were founded, not on the number likely to enlist, but on the number of males in the district. However, the regulations could not be altered without careful consideration. Then, in the metropolitan and other districts in the neighbourhood of large towns, there was another class of absentees. In those districts they must always reckon upon losing a certain percentage. The class of men enlisting were taken from a shifting population, and owing to the fluctuations of labour, the opening of fresh pits, and other causes, the men went to other districts or to sea. Of course, every effort was, and would still be, used to trace accurately where the men went. He had no doubt, however, that some regiments returned as absent from training men who had been up for training and had been afterwards sent down. That he knew to be the case. With regard to the question whether it would not have been better, instead of giving a larger bounty to the Militia, to let the money accumulate in a fund, and then give a larger bounty when men were wanted to volunteer for the Line?-that subject had been considered by the Committee to which reference had been made, and it had been found to be an unsatisfactory proposal. The fund would accumulate indefinitely, demurs would naturally be made to the money lying idle from year to year, and it would never be known what was the actual number of men on whom they could rely. If a large bounty were given, it would be given with their eyes open to all the evils, which were now condemned, of the former bounty system. Considering the various classes of employment in which the men were ordinarily engaged, the result, on the whole, of the organization of the Militia Reserve was not unsatisfactory. The total strength on the 1st of April, 1878, was 25,111; the number who reported themselves at the Militia head-quarters was 23,372; the number who failed to report themselves was 1,739. Of those who reported themselves, rather a large proportion-2,026-were found medically unfit, some temporarily, some totally; but the medical examination, being a military one, was rather severe. The number of men, therefore, who joined the Army

was 20,296. Of the 1,739 who failed to attend, 420 were accounted for, and 1,319, or about 5 per cent of the strength of the Force, were unaccounted for. All things considered, and this being the first time they were called out, that percentage was not unsatisfactory. There were taken into custody 161, discharged for fraudulent enlistment 72, dead 61, sick 54. With regard to training, these men of the Militia Reserve were fit to take their places side by side, not only with men of the Line, but with men of the Guards. The illustrious Duke at the head of the Army had informed him that he had seen with great satisfaction that the men who had been sent down to the Guards' depôt were scarcely distinguishable from the trained soldiers among whom they had taken their places. Then, as to the point whether? it was advisable to keep up a war establishment, the Committee were of opinion that the Militia establishment should practically be a war establishment, and he thought the result had justified that opinion. When the Militia Reserve men came to be suddenly drafted off, it was desirable that the commanding officers who lost some of their best men should beforehand be able to know what men permanently belonged to them, and it was thought preferable that 25 per cent should be borne as supernumerary. A very important point had been raised-namely, whether Militia Reserve men, having come up to the colours, should be allowed to go into the Army Reserve instead of going down as supernumerary to the Militia? Without any wish to discourage the Militia Reserve, or to prejudge the question, he must ask the House not to be carried away by their natural sympathy for these men, who did their duty so well. It should be borne in mind that the terms of the Army Reserve were made very different from those of the Militia Reserve, avowedly because they had a different class to deal with. In the Army Reserve they had trained soldiers; the Militia Reserve was not composed of the same class of men; and it seemed, therefore, natural that there should be a different rate of pay for the highly trained men. He hoped he had not trespassed unduly on the attention of the House, in endeavouring, as far as he could, to meet the various questions which had been raised. He should be

prepared to answer any other Questions which might be put, and he hoped the House would now consent to go into Committee of Supply.

MR. BIGGAR objected to any Department having the power of devoting any grant of money to a purpose other than that for which it had been voted. He believed that some of the Militia regiments, especially those in the North of Ireland, were thoroughly worthless, and that, in case of emergency, instead of being a source of strength, they would prove the very reverse. He would recommend that the Government should do something to improve the morale of the Force.

COLONEL ARBUTHNOT said, that as he was not in the House when the Army Estimates were last under discussion, he might, perhaps, be allowed to say a few words. He thought the manner in which the Army Reserve had responded to the call which had been made for their services was highly creditable to them and eminently gratifying to all concerned. For this result they were greatly indebted to Lord Cardwell, whose legislation upon this subject was based on sound principles. That noble Lord had made very large changes, but he left Office before he had time to reconstruct or replace what he had demolished. To his Successor belonged the credit of having provided a system of promotion and retirement for officers in place of what had been abolished; and he provided such attractions for the men as not only filled the ranks with the usual number of recruits, but supplied the extra number required by short service. He altered the system of organization in the Royal Artillery; he took steps very materially to improve the condition of the administrative Department of the Army; he altered the system of education at Sandhurst; and, above all, he did away with the ridiculous and mischievous restrictions on exchanges. There were, however, many difficult matters connected with our military system, some of them arising out of the changes recently made, still awaiting settlement. He believed that the Secretary of State would have to reconsider the policy of both his Predecessors with respect to the Medical Department, and that the warrants now in force would have to be repealed. Then he would inevitably have to re-adjust the pay and

allowances of officers. While there were two systems of promotion in force, purchase and non-purchase, each having their own advantages, it was all very well that what were called the scientific branches should be at some disadvantage; but now those branches must be placed at least on an equality with the others. Indeed, special advantages should be given them, if they wished to keep up their standard. At the examination for Woolwich in March, there were 92 candidates for 40 vacancies. Of these 92, only 45 qualified in the preliminary examination; while last November 476 candidates competed for 91 vacancies at Sandhurst, of whom 125 failed to qualify. The remedy must also be found for desertion. The most efficient mode of dealing with it, in his opinion, would be to resort to the old system of marking with letter D. A sentimental objection existed, however, to this, owing to a misconception that men were branded like cattle, as had been said, and that it was a painful process. It had been suggested that all who entered the Service might be marked with a Broad Arrow or Crown, to which officers would, no doubt, gladly submit; but he scarcely thought it logical to make rules under the operation of which good men would come to protect us from the crimes of the bad. Instead of imprisoning deserters, he would like to see them confined to barracks till they could be sent to India or the Colonies, whence they could not desert. If removed from the temptations incidental to English life, most of them would become good soldiers. The next point to be considered was how Indian reliefs were to be kept up under the short-service system. He would suggest that all men should do their first term of six years on the English establishment; that they should then have the option of joining the Reserve, or going for six years to India, in which latter case they must, of course, receive some gratuity or other inducement. He regretted that the Government had not accepted the offer of a portion of those 10,000 troops made by the Dominion of Canada. It would have been a grand spectacle to see the East and the West uniting in defence of the Empire. He should like to see some change introduced whereby the Forces of the Crown, on occasions of emergency, could

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