makes no recommendation upon this subject, but contains a statement made by the Lord Advocate Moncreiff to the effect that it was his intention to abolish the office; but I may remind the hon. Member that after that Report was given in, a vacancy occurred in one of these Commissionerships, and the then Home Secretary (Mr. Bruce), with the advice of the Lord Advocate (Mr. Young), resolved to fill up the vacancy, and did so. That was challenged, I believe, by the hon. Member, but the Home Secretary said it was absolutely necessary for the administration of the Lunacy Laws, and, I believe, the duties attendant on the administration of these laws are more onerous at the present day than they were in July 1870. PERSIA-VISIT OF THE SHAH. QUESTION. LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICE asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether it is true that the Shah of Persia intends to visit this country, and, if so, whether his visit will be of a public character; and whether in that event Her Majesty's Government have in contemplation any arrangement for his reception? MR. BOURKE: Sir, I have to state that it is the intention of the Shah of Persia to visit this country. The visit will not be a public one; on the contrary, it is expressly desired by His Majesty that his visit shall be incognito, and it is the wish of His Majesty to inspect personally the many institutions and manufactories in this country, and CHURCH OF SCOTLAND-OPENING OF study them in detail. It is the intention THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY. QUESTION. SIR GEORGE CAMPBELL asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, If his attention has been called to the accounts of the opening of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland by the High Commissioners with a Royal salute and a body of horse, foot, and artillery; and if he will consider whether the time has not come when the practice might, with advantage, be discontinued? MR. ASSHETON CROSS: I think, Sir, that the usual forms and ceremonies accompanying the visit of the Lord High Commissioners, as representing Her Majesty, were observed on the occasion referred to, and I see no reason why they should be discontinued. PUBLIC HEALTH-ADULTERATION OF BEER AT MAIDSTONE.-QUESTION. MR. WYKEHAM MARTIN asked the President of the Local Government Board, Whether there is any foundation for a report that several casks of beer brewed at Maidstone have been examined by the Excise authorities have been found to be adulterated and condemned and destroyed? MR. SCLATER-BOOTH: Sir, I have made all the inquiries in my power relative to the Question of the hon. Gentleman, but I cannot find that there is the slightest foundation for it. The Lord Advocate of the Government that His Majesty's desire shall be respected. SOUTH AFRICA THE CAPE-TELEGRAPHIC COMMUNICATION. QUESTION. COLONEL MURE asked, Whether the attention of Her Majesty's Government has been directed to the want of Telegraphic Communication between this Country and the Cape of Good Hope; and, whether any steps are in contemplation with a view to such communication? SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH: Sir, recent events have specially directed the attention of the Government to the want of telegraphic communication between this country and the Cape of Good Hope; and, looking to the peculiar circumstances of the case, and the absence of any prospect that within a reasonable time any communication would be opened by private enterprize, we would be prepared to give our favourable consideration to a proposal for aiding in some form or another in the establishment of such telegraphic communication, provided the several Colonies interested agreed also to help in the work. Despatches to this effect were addressed by me shortly after my accession to my present Office to the Governors of the several Colonies affected, and, should the replies be favourable, I shall lose no time in inviting the attention of my Colleagues to a consideration of the details of the subject, in order | that the best plan may be adopted to carry out the proposal, which I think is of the greatest importance to the inof the greatest importance to the interests of the Empire. THE TURKISH LOAN OF 1855. QUESTION. MR. DODSON asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether the sum of £77,448, which Her Majesty's Government were obliged to provide for interest and commission in consequence of the default of the Turkish Government to pay the dividend due in February last on the Turkish Guaranteed Loan of 1855, specially charged upon the Egyptian tribute, has been received in full, or to any and what amount, from the Turkish or Egyptian Government; whether the French Government has paid one moiety thereof; and, whether he can say when the Correspondence with the above-named Governments on the subject, which he informed the House on 19th March should be laid before Parliament as soon as it was in a fit state, will be presented? THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: I am sorry to say, Sir, that the bulk of the sum of £77,448 has not yet been paid. The Porte gave instructions to the Khedive to pay the amount that was due, but the amount received from the Khedive has been somewhat less than £8,000. Why a further amount has not yet been paid I am not in a position to say, but communications are still going on with the Egyptian Government on the subject. The French Government have been advised by Her Majesty's Government of the position of affairs, and they have recognized their liability to pay one moiety. The French Government are prepared to pay the moiety on Her Majesty's Government sending in an account; but as we have been hoping to receive a further remittance from the Egyptian Government we have not yet put the claim in proper shape, and that, of course, will be a matter which will cause no delay between ourselves and the French Government. I am afraid that as the Correspondence has not yet been completed, it will not be advisable to lay it upon the Table of the House. VOL. CCXL. [THIRD SERIES.] SCOTLAND-THE BOTANIC GARDENS, EDINBURGH.-QUESTION. MR. LYON PLAYFAIR asked the First Commissioner of Works, Whether he has received a Memorial from the Students of Botany in the Royal Botanic Gardens of Edinburgh, complaining that nearly 400 students have to study in a class-room which is only seated for 230; and, whether the Government intend to provide adequate accommodation for the public, which has shown its desire to pursue their studies in these public gardens ? MR. GERARD NOEL: Sir, a Memorial has been received from the Students of Botany in the Royal Botanic Gardens; but I am sorry to say that, owing to more pressing requirements, it has been found impracticable to take any steps to improve the accommodation in the class-rooms at Edinburgh. But I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that when the Estimates for 1879-80 are being prepared, the question shall be carefully considered. PARLIAMENT-BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.-QUESTION. MR. O'CLERY: I beg to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer, having regard to the forthcoming debate on University Education in Ireland, Whether the Government intend to hold a Morning Sitting on Friday? MR. BUTT: I think this Question might have been left to be put by myself or the hon. Member for Roscommon, who has charge of the Motion. I would appeal to the Chancellor of the Exchequer not to interfere with the ordinary Sitting to-morrow. My hon. Friend has been good enough in my absence to submit this subject to the 2 H 931 Parliament upon House. It is a subject exciting a great | the Irish Members take particular indeal of attention in Ireland, and a full terest in the issue of the discussion upon discussion of it is very desirable. The the Irish University question and the Chancellor of the Exchequer had ad- Queen's Colleges in Ireland, and that that quesmitted to a deputation that waited upon we must be prepared for a considerable him the importance of the subject, and I amount of discussion would press upon him that the discussion should be allowed to go on toNo one knows better than I do the difficulties which have been thrown in the way of the right hon. GentleStill I trust to receive an assurance that to-morrow's Sitting will not be interfered with. morrow. man. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: Sir, I can assure the House and both the hon. Members who have just addressed me, that I am fully conscious of the importance attached to the question of Irish University education, and I should be most desirous, so far as I could, to provide an opportunity for the discussion of the question. I am, therefore, most anxious that I may not be driven to the necessity of asking the House to meet here to-morrow morning. I wish, however, to state candidly to the House, what the position of Her Majesty's Government is in respect to the progress of Public Business. We have already had six nights' discussion of the Civil Service Estimates, and have been able to get through only 33 Votes. There are upwards of 100 Votes still remaining, and if we proceed with them with similar progress, we should require 18 nights to There are only 18 complete them. Mondays and Thursdays between this and the 1st of August inclusive, and if we obtain no other days than those for discussion of these Estimates, progressing in the same degree, we should find the whole time of the Government taken up upon the consideration of these Votes alone, making no allowance for the discussion of questions relating to the Army and Navy, to our foreign affairs, and to the various other subjects of legislation wich must necessarily engage the attention of the Government. hope, then, that the House will see that it is not owing to any grudging spirit on our part that we feel ourselves obliged to make stipulations for being afforded of the further facilities for the progress Government Business. I repeat, then, what I have already said, that if we can make sufficient progress to-night in the Estimates, I shall not ask for a Morning Sitting to-morrow, I am fully aware I item I have, therefore, so arranged tion. this evening that, although I shall ask for a Vote on account-a course I any hoped to have avoided-the Government will not include in that Vote relating to the Queen's Colleges in Ireland. I will, however, fix Supply for Monday next again, and then take the main Vote for them. I hope hon. Members interested in the subject will see that they will thus be afforded a sufficient opportunity of discussing that Vote. I propose to take a Vote on account this evening for all the Services exclusive of the Queen's Colleges, and then to proceed with Class III., which relates to Law and Justice, the earlier Votes in which do not particularly affect Ireland, so that it is not likely they will render necessary any full discussion on the part of the Irish Members especially. That is the position in which we stand. If we find to-night that we are able to make a reasonable progress in our EstiIf not, I shall cermates, we shall not have a Morning Sitting to-morrow. tainly be under the necessity of asking the House to grant us a Morning Sitting to-morrow. MR. A. MOORE: Does the hon. Member for Roscommon intend to proceed with the Sunday Closing Bill to-night? THE O'CONOR DON: It is my intention to proceed with it to-night. MR. EYTON asked Mr. Attorney General, When he intends to proceed with the Bar Education and Discipline Bill. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (Sir JOHN HOLKER), in reply, said, he intended to proceed with this Bill at the earliest opportunity he could obtain, which, he feared would not be until after Whitsuntide. ORDERS OF THE DAY. SUPPLY.-COMMITTEE. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair," DISCUSSIONS ON THE ESTIMATES. OBSERVATIONS. MR. DILLWYN said, although he considered it inconvenient, he did not wish to raise any objection to a Vote being taken on account; but he must protest against the tone in which the Chancellor of the Exchequer had spoken with respect to the delay which had been occasioned by the discussions on the Votes in Committee of Supply. It could not be denied that there had been some obstruction, but the greater part of the discussions, so far as he had heard them, were, he believed, really bond fide, and many of the criticisms of the hon. Member for Meath (Mr. Parnell) were, in his opinion, very able and very much to the point. The Estimates were assuming enormous proportions, and it was, he maintained, essential to the public interests; that they should be fully discussed, in order that it might be seen whether the charge on the public could not be reduced; and with the view to secure that object, as well as to afford the Government reasonable facilities for the conduct of the Business of the House, he thought it might be well to appoint a Select Committee in the early part of each Session, to which the Estimates should be referred, and which should make a Report to the Committee of Supply on each class as it came up. MR. PARNELL said, he might not be out of Order in referring to the reply the Chancellor of the Exchequer was good enough to give to the hon. and learned Member for Limerick (Mr. Butt) in regard to the Irish University Bill and the proposed Morning Sitting. On Tuesday last, he had ventured to predict that if the Chancellor of the Exchequer took a Morning Sitting he would get no Supply. His reason for that was that the Irish Estimates were the next Business, and if the Chancellor of the Exchequer had been permitted to make considerable progress in Supply, these Estimates would have given rise to considerable discussion. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had now skipped over these Irish Estimates and put down Class III., in which he felt very little interest, until the 14th Vote, relating to Convict Establishments," was reached. It happened, therefore, that by the action of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, so far as he was concerned, he should be able to facilitate the obtaining of Supply without any sacrifice of what he considered his duty. As regarded the general question of the impediments offered to the Government in the way of obtaining Supply, it had unfortunately happened that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who had so frequently expressed his opinion on the conduct of Members who had criticized he would not say opposed-the Votes in Supply, had been almost invariably absent from the House when the discussions on Supply were taken. The right hon. Gentleman must, therefore, have formed his opinions on the conduct of hon. Members on the reports-more or less vague-which had reached him from hon. Members who might have been equally ill-informed with himself. On one or two occasions in which the Chancellor of the Exchequer entered the House when Votes in Supply were being considered, they had been engaged in an unfortunate squabble of a personal character, which had been in every case created by some English Member who had not been present during the evening, and who, thinking that the time of the House was being wasted, got up in a flurry, and made charges of a disagreeable kind. That was the experience from which the Chancellor of the Exchequer spoke, when he talked of the way in which Supply had been dealt with. He would submit to the right hon. Gentleman, as a fair-minded man, that if he wished to constitute himself a judge of others, he should, at least, sit in the House while Supply was being taken. If he could not, why should he speak in this rash way of the conduct of Members who had been in the House all the time that Supply was being taken? By far the greater amount of time in these cases was wasted in unseemly personal squabbles. ["Order!"] MR. SPEAKER: The observations of the hon. Member, imputing misconduct to hon. Members of the House, and stating that personal squabbles are carried on in this House, which are not corrected, are unbecoming, and I must call upon the hon. Member to be more careful in his expressions. MR. PARNELL: But they certainly seemed to me to be personal squabbles. MR. SPEAKER: If personal squabbles occur in this House, it is the duty of the Speaker or the Chairman, as the case may be, to call to Order Members who are | that it would some day admit that it had guilty of them. The hon. Member is not misunderstood him. entitled to say that personal squabbles occur without their being corrected. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: Sir, I am sure the House must feel very sorry to hear that the hon. Member considers himself a personne incompris, and that the services he has rendered to us have not been appreHeciated. I am certain that the general feeling of the House will be not to raise any personal discussion. What we meet for here is to discharge the Business of the country, not to discuss the merits of individual Members, or whether their action is or is not justifiable. I venture to apologize to the House for my own absence occasionally when the House was in Committee of Supply. I try to be here as much as I can. All that I have seen of the conduct of my hon. Friend the Secretary to the Treasury convinces those who have been here that he is perfectly competent for the work. I venture to request that the House will be good enough to abstain from unnecessary digressions upon questions of a personal character, and that, as we seem to be tolerably agreed, the course suggested will be pursued. I have to thank my hon. Friends here, and on the opposite side, who did not persevere with Motions of which they had given Notice on going into Committee of Supply. At the same time, in the remarks I made, I did not all wish to intimate any objection to the hon. Members taking the proper and usual privilege which belongs to Members of this House to raise questions upon going into Committee of Supply. I expressed a hope that, in whatever discussions occur before going into Committee of Supply, there would be some consideration for the general conduct of Public Business. If a large proportion of the time is spent in discussing one or two items, that may render it impossible to discuss other items which may be of greater or equal importance. The hon. Member for Swansea (Mr. Dillwyn) spoke of the inconvenience of taking Votes on account, and he said that Votes on which discussions ought to be held are brought on late in the Session, and that discussion could not then arise. If a great deal of discussion occurs, we are driven to that necessity. With regard to the suggestion that the matter should be referred to a Select Committee, I will merely say that that is a large subject which I will MR. PARNELL replied, that he did not say that personal squabbles occurred without their being corrected. On the contrary, the Chairman had very frequently corrected these things. ventured to suggest to the hon. Baronet the Secretary to the Treasury at the commencement of the discussion of the Civil Service Estimates what the effect would be if that discussion which it was the duty of hon. Members to give them was even attempted, and his predictions had been verified. At the present moment, hon. Members who ventured to discuss the items of the Estimates were liable to an amount of ill-feeling which required more than ordinary courage to encounter. He would suggest that before next Session the hon. Baronet should consider the desirability of referring the whole of these Estimates to a Committee upstairs; and he believed, if a Committee had the opportunity of going through the items calmly and without heat, and calling the heads of Departments and others before them, they might reduce the Estimates by £5,000,000, or even £10,000,000, without any detriment to the public service; but, on the contrary, to its decided advantage. On the question why he, an Irish Member, should remain in the House and discuss Scotch and English Estimates, he might say that for some time he had confined his exertions to supporting measures promoted for the benefit of Ireland, which were, however, voted down by large majorities of English and Scotch Members, who frequently had not even listened to the arguments that had been used. He saw, then, that he was simply wasting his time, and he accordingly turned his attention to the Estimates, and endeavoured to check extravagance and stop sinecures, in the hope that he might in this way do some small good to those who paid taxes in Ireland. He was very well satisfied with the results that had attended his exertions since he had been in the House. He was sorry that the House had appeared, from time to time, to misapprehend his intentions and desires; but he was perfectly willing to live down the misapprehensions of the House of Commons, and he believed Mr. Speaker |