Senator JOHNSON. Do you think the support for such an endeavor is inadequate at this moment?

Dr. PICKERING. In general I do not feel that the financial support of scientific work in this country is badly inadequate. We can always use more money, obviously, but it seems to me that we have the money available but somehow we are not accomplishing as much as should be done with the funds. In other words

Senator JOHNSON. You are saying it is not so much a state of the bank account as a state of mind?

Dr. PICKERING. It is a state of mind, I believe, more than anything else.

Senator JOHNSON. And what are your suggestions for improving the situation?

Dr. PICKERING. Well, sir, I have only this feeling, that it is a matter of the national spirit, as it were, and something which has to grow through the country, and there is nothing concrete that can be done except to keep these facts before the people.

Senator JOHNSON. Are there any other questions of Dr. Pickering? Senator SYMINGTON. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask one more, if I may.

Senator JOHNSON. Senator Symington.

EXPENDITURE CEILINGS HAMPER DEFENSE EFFORT

Senator SYMINGTON. Dr. Pickering, based on work that you do as head of a great jet propulsion laboratory, it is a coincidence that we have you here this morning, the same day the Russians launched the sputnik.

I placed a statement in the record only yesterday. I will ask you a question about it after I read it.

With respect to what is going on now, I said in the record yesterday: Expenditure ceilings were determining our defense policy.

That was before sputnik. Shortly after sputnik, or thereabouts, and I quote:

With only minor deviations and modifications these expenditure ceilings are still hamstringing our defense activity and minimizing the constructive effect of needed defense expenditures upon the economy. These artificial controls over the use of money made available by the Congress continue to be enforced in spite of inflation, in spite of the recession, and in spite of the relative decline of our defense strength vis-a-vis the Soviet."

Now, I investigated the matter thoroughly before I made that statement and I am not asking you to comment on its accuracy, but if it is true, I would ask you, don't you think that we should stop establishing expenditure ceilings on money that has been appropriated for the purpose of improving our defenses, especially in the field of newer weapons?

Dr. PICKERING. Yes, sir. It would seem to me when the Congress has appropriated money, this is an indication of the will of the people which should be carried out then by the military; yes, sir.

Senator SYMINGTON. Thank you.

Senator JOHNSON. Senator Bricker?

COST OF THE SPACE PROGRAM

Senator BRICKER. You estimate the cost at a billion dollars. Dr. PICKERING. Yes, sir. There have been figures which have been quoted in the order of $100 million to a billion dollars a year for a substantial space program. My feeling is it will be closer to a billion than to a hundred million.

Senator JOHNSON. Any other questions?

Thank you very much, Dr. Pickering. You are excused. You have made a valuable contribution and we appreciate the suggestions you have given us. The committee will give serious attention to your recommendations. You are excused.

Dr. PICKERING. Thank you, sir.

Senator JOHNSON. Our next witness is Dr. James Van Allen, Chairman, Rocket and Satellite Research Panel, and professor of physics, at the University of Iowa.

Dr. Van Allen, will you please come to the microphone.

Dr. Van Allen, you have been active in rocket and upper atmosphere research since 1946. You have also done considerable work in the IGY program. We welcome you and express our gratitude for your coming here to give us the benefit of your experience.

Our esteemed colleague, Senator Hickenlooper, must leave because of an engagement he has previously made, but he has talked to me. about your appearance.

I ask unanimous consent that we put a biographical sketch of Dr. Van Allen in the record at this point. Senator Hickenlooper, would you care to make a statement before Dr. Van Allen proceeds with his statement?

(The biography referred to is as follows:)

BIOGRAPHY OF DR. JAMES VAN ALLEN, PHYSICIST; CHAIRMAN, IGY SUBCOMMITTEE

Dr. Van Allen was born in Mount Pleasant, Iowa, on September 7, 1914. He attended Iowa Wesleyan College receiving his bachelor of science and doctor of science in 1931. From the State University of Iowa he received a master of science in 1936 and a doctor of philosophy in 1939.

He was with the Carnegie Institution of Washington from 1939–42 and with Johns Hopkins in 1942 and again from 1946-50. He was the leader of several scientific expeditions from 1949-52. He has been a professor of physics and head of the department at the State University of Iowa since 1951. He was also a research associate at Princeton University in 1953-54.

He served as a lieutenant commander in the United States Navy from 1942–46 and also worked with the OSRD during World War II. He has been a member of a subcommittee of the NACA and has been active in rocket and upper atmosphere research since 1946 as a member and now Chairman of the Rocket and Satellite Research Panel. He also heads the Working Group on Internal Instrumentation of the IGY program.

He is a member of the American Physical Society, the American Geophysics. Union, and Sigma Xi. He is author of many scientific articles on the upper atmosphere and earth satellites.

STATEMENT OF DR. JAMES VAN ALLEN, CHAIRMAN, ROCKET AND SATELLITE RESEARCH PANEL AND PROFESSOR OF PHYSICS, UNIVERSITY OF IOWA

Senator HICKENLOOPER. The only thing I can say, Mr. Chairman, is that Dr. Van Allen is a very renowned physicist and has done invaluable work, of course, on instrumentation and other necessary details of certain rocket and satellite operations.

25484-58-pt. 2-8

We are very proud of his work in Iowa. He is a native-born Iowa citizen, and I join with the chairman in welcoming you here, Doctor. Senator JOHNSON. Dr. Van Allen, do you have a prepared statement?

Dr. VAN ALLEN. Yes, sir.

Senator JOHNSON. Will you proceed in your own way.

Dr. VAN ALLEN. Yes. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, it is a very great honor for me to have this occasion to appear this morning.

I thought I should first summarize my views in order that you may know in a general way where I stand and in order to give some background for questions.

In the first place, I do consider that a vigorous national program of outer space research is essential to our maintaining scientific and technological leadership among nations of the world.

Secondly, I heartily support the President's proposals for this purpose as embodied in the National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958, which is now pending before the Congress and before this committee. And I specifically urge that dominant authority and responsibility for the execution of this national program be vested in a civil agency.

In the way of general background on my experience in this field, I should like to say that since 1940 I have been closely associated with military weapons development. In fact, throughout World War II and for some time after that, that was my principal professional activity, working on military weapons systems and in their operational use in the Pacific Fleet and for our ground forces in Europe.

Since 1946 I have been primarily engaged in scientific work using high altitude rockets and most recently using satellites. So I feel that I do have some impression of both sides of this question, namely, the military operational and weapons requirements and the civilian scientific and educational aspects, and some impression of what the possibilities of space developments are for the general benefit of our citizenry at large.

I list the following purposes of a national space program in what I believe to be about the right order of importance for a civilian agency. In the first place, there is a vast amount of ignorance, just simple ignorance, about what is going on in the upper atmosphere of the earth and in the space surrounding the earth. So I feel that the first, and the most basic undertaking of the civil Agency is the investigation of the phenomena of nature on a geophysical and astrophysical scale. Second, there has been a great deal said about the aspect of human adventure and exploration. I have no special advocacy of "the man in space" undertaking. I feel that it is something which men will wish to do and in due time will do. I think the incentives are of the same nature that Magellan must have had in starting around the world, namely, just to see what is around the world; and I do believe that, in the long term, human exploration of space will possibly be a significant field of human activity.

Thirdly, there is the application of new knowledge and techniques resulting from these investigations to the promotion of the intellectual agricultural and industrial capabilities of the Nation.

Fourth, there is the aspect of the advancement of international understanding by cooperation in undertakings which are naturally

and necessarily of worldwide scope. The International Geophysical Year is certainly the most tangible and most well known example of such an undertaking.

And finally, there is the application of all the knowledge and techniques resulting from the above investigations to the development of military weapons systems and to the more effective conduct of offensive and defensive warfare.

In order that we may have as a Nation an effective space program, there are two simple things required:

In the first place, we require enabling legislation which establishes an astronautical Agency as a major Federal activity.

In the second place, we must have adequate funding on a long-term basis for the execution of this undertaking.

Many of us have been concerned with these questions for some time; and, as you probably know, various groups of us have developed informal proposals of this nature for several years.

Most of us believe that we will require something like $500 million a year for the civil space undertaking. I think one should have such a figure in mind when he is thinking of a vigorous national program, Mr. Chairman.

Now, these are my prepared remarks, and I can speak from notes on other points I have, or I shall be glad to answer questions at this point, as you like.

Senator JOHNSON. Thank you very much, Doctor.

I must leave shortly to attend another meeting, and I want to ask some brief questions. I will ask Senator Symington to preside and conclude the questioning and hear the other witnesses.

SUGGESTED CHANGES IN THE BILL

Doctor, do you have any specific suggestions to make regarding improvements in the administration bill that has been forwarded to us? Dr. VAN ALLEN. Yes, sir; I have several specific suggestions I would like to mention.

I think the section of the bill that-now, I have actually the House version, but I understand it is identical with the Senate version, and I feel that the section dealing with the relationships between this new Agency and the Military Establishment is very vague, and I should like to invite your attention to a bill which was submitted by Representative Coad in the House on January 14.

It was designated H. R. 9966. I feel that one statement of Mr. Coad's bill is very pertinent to this matter, and it reads as follows: The interests of the Commission-now, he was proposing a Commission rather than a Space Agency

shall be paramount in the field of astronautics among all Government agencies except for such aspects of the field as are determined by the President to be of clear and immediate military importance.

This section settles or attempts to settle the question of dominant cognizance in these matters.

I think it is clear that there is no attempt to prevent, retard, or in any way interfere with developments which are of "clear and immediate military importance." But it undertakes to establish this agency as the dominant one among all Government agencies in the field of civil space developments.

Senator JOHNSON. Do you think that a statement of policy is to be preferred to the language in the bill which says that the Congress desires such activity should be directed by a civilian agency exercising control over aeronautical and space research except insofar as such activity may be peculiar to or primarily associated with the military weapons system, military operations, and so forth?

Dr. VAN ALLEN. Yes, sir; I do feel that the statement in the Coad bill is superior, and mainly with regard to this one section of S. 3609 which I believe is rather unclear:

may be peculiar to or primarily associated with weapons systems or military operations, in which case the agency may act in cooperation with or on behalf of the Department of Defense.

I will admit this can be interpreted that there will be no interference. However, it seems to me it may be interpreted that the Space Agency is the primarily responsible agent and it may or may not cooperate with the Defense Department.

Senator JOHNSON. In other words, are you generally satisfied with the provisions of the Senate bill?

Dr. VAN ALLEN. Yes, sir, in broad outline.

I may say I do prefer the commission principle in an agency of this sort, rather than a single director. My reason is that I think the Atomic Energy Commission has, on the whole, worked out quite well. I think the space undertaking is an undertaking of similar diversity, and I feel that a greater breadth of competence is desirable.

I think, also, that a single directorship tends to be a lifetime job. I think in an undertaking of this sort that there should be a limited term of appointment and that there should be an assured diversity of policymaking capability which changes year by year as membership of the Commission changes.

TRANSFERS TO THE NEW AGENCY

Senator JOHNSON. Do you believe that any of the present, permanent research authority of the Department of Defense with respect to the space weapons systems should be transferred to this new Agency?

Dr. VAN ALLEN. Yes, sir; I think a good bit of it might well be and should be.

Senator JOHNSON. Which part?

Dr. VAN ALLEN. I think a good bit of what is being done within the Department of Defense in this field at the present time is on a stopgap basis and is mainly and dominantly of a civil character. But it is being done by the Department of Defense as a matter of expediency because there is no other agency in the country at the present time able to undertake it.

There is much contractual work of the Department of Defense which could be transferred bag and baggage. There are many laboratories and groups of people which would prefer to be in a civil agency and which could be transferred within a year.

Senator JOHNSON. Do you think the machinery and the mechanics for that purpose are adequate as proposed in the present bill?

Dr. VAN ALLEN. Yes, sir; although I feel that 3 years is a rather long period in this field, and I should much prefer to see the transfers made within 1 year, so that the new Agency can go ahead promptly.