like to be put back on the basis we were on before the reduction was made.

MOTOR-PROPELLED VEHICLES.

On page 184, under the heading of fuel, oil, grease, etc., there is a change in the wording there by the addition of "and vehicles (including motor-propelled vehicles)." The reason for adding that language is this: We consider it in the interest of economy and efficiency to use motor-propelled vehicles over horses, and the intention of the department, as you will see later on in these estimates, is to move the Hydrographic Office out there, if you will permit us to do so, and in the event that is done there will be additional travel back and forth between the Navy Department and the observatory. In regard to that, I will say that before putting in that estimate I conferred with the chief clerk of the Navy Department, who told me that there was no doubt that it could be demonstrated that it was economy to use motor-propelled vehicles. He has, I believe, in the department a record of the comparative cost of horse teams and motor-propelled vehicles at the marine barracks, navy yard, Philadelphia, and the comparison is all in favor of the motor-propelled vehicles. I notice that the Bureau of Standards has, I believe, three automobiles, and a number of the other departments have them or are introducing them. It is getting to be the recognized thing.

Mr. BURLESON. The Bureau of Standards does a little more work than the Naval Observatory, does it not?

Capt. JAYNE. Perhaps they do a little more, but I do not believe they do any more per person. They have a much larger staff than we have. Personally I know that I have to put in a good deal of time in going back and forth between the Observatory and the Navy Department, and that amount of traveling back and forth will probably increase when this change is made.

Mr. BURLESON. Well, that change is not made yet.

Capt. JAYNE. Yes, sir; but if it is made.

Mr. BURLESON. Are they going to make that change without reference to the legislative department?

Capt. JAYNE. No, sir; we are asking in these estimates that you allow it.

Mr. JOHNSON. I notice that in that paragraph you ask that $4,500 be made immediately available. That would indicate that you have a deficiency.

Capt. JAYNE. No, sir; not a deficiency. It is just for the purchase of these motor vehicles, so that we can get the economy from their use right away. If you are to allow this further money for construction out there, it will immediately begin to be required. We will be required to run around more than we are at present. That is the idea in asking that this money be made immediately available.

REMOVAL OF EYDROGRAPHIC OFFICE.

[See p. 117.]

Mr. JOHNSON. On page 185 you have this item: "For additions to and alterations in the boiler and dynamo rooms and south transit house, to be immediately available, $21,000."

Capt. JAYNE. This is to provide additional space in these buildings for the housing of the Hydrographic Office.

Mr. JOHNSON. Where is the Hydrographic Office housed now? Capt. JAYNE. In the Mills Building, and the department is very anxious to get the space in the Mills Building for the needs of the rest of the department. This matter has been studied for a year. Mr. JOHNSON. The Hydrographic Office is in the Mills Building now?

Capt. JAYNE. Yes, sir; that is what I said.

Mr. JOHNSON. And you propose to move the Hydrographic Office to the Naval Observatory, and to use this $21,000 to erect the necessary buildings. What is the space now occupied by the Hydrographic Office in the Mills Building costing?

Capt. JAYNE. I should say about $10,000 a year, or somewhere in that neighborhood. Mr. Curtis can tell you about that better than I.

Mr. JOHNSON. If the change is made, what economies can be effected besides giving this additional space in the Mills Building?

Capt. JAYNE. Well, if there were a consolidation of the two institutions I think there would be a number of economies that could result.

Mr. BURLESON. Suggestions have been made of another consolidation.

Capt. JAYNE. I know that; and I would like to talk to you about that some time, because I have a good deal to say in regard to that matter. Of course, I do not want to intrude it into these hearings, but if this committee will come out to the observatory and will let me show them over the place and tell them

Mr. BURLESON (interposing). You know there was some discussion of a partition of the Naval Observatory between the Smithsonian Institution and the Weather Bureau?

Capt. JAYNE. Yes, sir; and I would be glad to take that up with you or Mr. Johnson or anybody else in this committee. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to take that up with you; I have been wanting to do that.

Mr. JOHNSON. All these items on page 185 go in together or go out together?

Capt. JAYNE. Yes, sir; if you move the Hydrographic Office out there this is to provide the space for them and for transportation expense, etc.

Mr. JOHNSON. Has anybody made a calculation to show that that is what it would cost to move the equipment of the Hydrographic Office out there, or is it a pure guess?

Capt. JAYNE. That is based on what it cost to move the Hydrographic Office from its old quarters into the Mills Building, and we made some allowances. Of course, there are a great many chart cases which would probably be almost destroyed by moving them out and we made an estimate of what it would cost to build new chart cases. I do not mean to say that this estimate is within $100 or $200 of it, but if you will allow us that much we will guarantee to move it out there, and if we do not use it all it will not cost the Government any more than is used.

The third item I went into pretty carefully and also the fourth item. Of course, the Hydrographic Office will take its electric current from a different source out there. The Hydrographic Office uses cur

rent where it is, but of course, as I say, it will be taking it from a different source out there.

Mr. JOHNSON. Where do you get electric current for the Naval Observatory now?

Capt. JAYNE. From the city mains. We have a dynamo plant out there, but we do not use it, because it is not considered economy to do so. It was put there many years ago, and the room now occupied by the dynamos will be occupied by the heavy printing presses of the Hydrographic Office if they go out there.

Mr. JOHNSON. Why is it not economy to produce this current yourself?

Capt. JAYNE. Because we would have to run the steam plant all the year round. As it is, we run the steam plant in the wintertime for heating, and in the summer time when we do not have to run it for heating purposes it is shut down; and I think it is cheaper to get our current from the city. At any rate, it has been done for a number of years. I have not gone into the exact figures on it, but I am satisfied it is cheaper to continue as we are now doing.

Mr. JOHNSON. Do you know what it costs per kilowatt?

Capt. JAYNE. That depends on the amount you take. We went into those figures when we estimated this $1,500. In making that estimate we estimated the number of kilowatts we would use, and came pretty close to those figures.

NAUTICAL ALMANAC.

Mr. JOHNSON. You have charge of the Nautical Almanac, also, have you not?

Capt. JAYNE. Yes, sir.

Mr. JOHNSON. I see that there are some slight changes in that paragraph on page 185.

Capt. JAYNE. That is the Hydrographic Office. There is one change there in the Nautical Almanac office item. We strike these words, "who may act as or be appointed director," referring to one assistant at $2.000. Those words were not put in at the request of the Navy Department, and we do not consider them necessary.

Mr. JOHNSON. You ask for five men there instead of three. Don't you think you could get along with three?

Capt. JAYNE. We are not increasing the number. I am just adding two men who now get $1,000 and increasing their pay to $1,200. Mr. JOHNSON. You are increasing them to $1,200 and dropping them at $1,000?

Capt. JAYNE. Yes, sir.

Mr. JOHNSON. How long have they been there?

Capt. JAYNE. These young fellows come and go, and you can not put your finger on them. They come and then leave us to get better employment.

PIECEWORK FUND.

I would like to tell you one thing; we are asking for the same amount of money in the piecework fund this year that we have always asked for.

EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION.

Last year Congress passed a law which permits us to have an exchange of information for the Nautical Almanac with foreign Governments. That idea originated in Europe, and it was to increase the information that is available for Nautical Almanac purposes and not with the idea of reducing expenditures at all, but solely to increase information. Now that we have entered into or expect to enter into this agreement with England, France, Germany, Italy, and Spain, it probably will reduce the cost of running the office. However, astronomers of this country have indicated to me that they think it is highly desirable that the same amount of money be appropriated and given to astronomical investigation, which can be better done by such an institution as the Nautical Almanac than in any other way.

Mr. BURLESON. Does every Government issue annually an ephemeris or nautical almanac?

Capt. JAYNE. Several of them do.

Mr. BURLESON. Do all of them do that?

Capt. JAYNE. Not all of them; no, sir. Great Britain, France, Germany, and Spain do.

Mr. BURLESON. Does Japan issue one?

Capt. JAYNE. I can not say, but I do not think she does. They were contemplating doing so several years ago and had a man at the Naval Observatory studying our methods.

Mr. BURLESON. But they did not do it?

Capt. JAYNE. I do not think they did.

Mr. BURLESON. Whose almanac do they use?

Capt. JAYNE. They probably use the British, because they are so closely allied.

Mr. BURLESON. Is it necessary for every Government to prepare one?

Capt. JAYNE. Well, I can not say that it is absolutely necessary. I would not say that.

Mr. BURLESON. Don't you make many observations out there that are not utilized in the preparation of the ephemeris at all? Capt. JAYNE. Well, they are utilized

Mr. BURLESON (interposing). Don't you during each year make many observations that are not utilized in the preparation of the ephemeris?

Capt. JAYNE. They may not be in the annual productions, but most of them have a bearing on the details computed for the Nautical Almanac.

BUREAU OF CONSTRUCTION AND REPAIR.

STATEMENT OF MR. MICHAEL D. SCHAEFER, CHIEF CLERK.

Mr. JOHNSON. I notice you are asking for an increase of $500 in the salary of the chief clerk. Every bureau in the Navy Department is asking for such an increase. Is that done simply to equalize this man with some one else or is there some special reason why we should increase his salary $500 ?

Mr. SCHAEFER. That refers to me, of course. I am speaking for myself. The admiral is away, being absent from the city.

Mr. JOHNSON. How long since you have had an increase in salary? Mr. SCHAEFER. In 1906, when I was made chief clerk.

Mr. JOHNSON. How long have you been in the Government service? Mr. SCHAEFER. Since 1896.

Mr. JOHNSON. You were 10 years getting up to a chief clerkship? Mr. SCHAEFER. Yes, sir; I have had a technical training. I was promoted to chief clerk from ship's draftsman, and, of course, this being a technical bureau, they have had their chief clerks promoted from the technical force, both the man who preceded me and myself; and I was in line for promotion in my grade when they promoted me to chief clerk, which was only a promotion of $100, and had I stayed in the drafting force I probably would have gone a good deal higher and had more pay.

Mr. JOHNSON. What about the financial clerk? What is he now? Mr. SCHAEFER. He is a clerk at $1,800, of class 4.

Mr. JOHNSON. How long since he had an increase in salary?

Mr. SCHAEFER. I suppose he got his increase about three and a half years ago.

Mr. BURLESON. Who made up this estimate?

Mr. SCHAEFER. This estimate was made up by myself and the chief of the bureau.

Mr. JOHNSON. If these increases are allowed, is it proposed that promotions shall be made from the force already in that office, or are you going outside to get a man?

Mr. SCHAEFER. No, sir. We will make them right there in the office. That is one of the reasons why we ask for these promotions. We are losing so many of our clerks.

Mr. JOHNSON. When you say you are losing your clerks, to whom do you lose them, to the business world or other governmental departments?

Mr. SCHAEFER. Mostly to other departments. Some resign and go out into the business world, but most of them go out by transfers, because the other departments pay more than we do for practically, I should say, the same class of work. We are the poorestpaid bureau in the Navy Department, from some figures I made up. Our average is the lowest, with the exception of the Bureau of Ordnance, which is probably a little lower than we are, but it is not comparable, because they have only 26 clerks to our 56. Our greatest stumblingblock is the $1.000 grade. We have 15 men in that grade, and that is why we split it up. We take 7 out of there, and the estimate shows that we put some of the men in the $1,300 and $1,200 classes. We have been trying for the last four years to break up that $1,000 grade so as to hold out some chance of promotion to the men in that grade.

Mr. BURLESON. One way you would get it would be by reducing, say, four of them to $900, and that would give you a chance to promote them just the same.

Mr. SCHAEFER. Not very well, sir. We have got the same number of people. The total number of positions will remain the same as we have at present, and that will give us a chance to promote some in the $900 class, those that pass the examinations. We have reduced some of the messengers at $600 and recommended that they be given $480. All our messenger boys, with one exception, get $600. have nine messengers at $600 and one at $400, and we feel it is quite

We