Secretary FISHER. How would it do to have somebody in whom you have confidence to look into that and let them go with the chief clerk and look over these buildings and make a report to you? Now, there is another question to be considered in this connection, and that is whether it will be economical to spend the necessary amount of money to equip these buildings for our use in view of the short length of time that they will remain available for occupancy. We have made an investigation in regard to the Maltby Building, because I thought we might be able to use that building, but they say that it is not safe.

GENERAL SUPPLY COMMITTEE.

Now, there is one other matter I would like to mention. There is an appropriation here for a clerk who is to be used in connection with our work, or really in connection with the work of that General Supply Committee. You know there is a General Supply Committee representing all of the departments. That supply committee has no appropriation, and the result is that they are making requisitions on the other departments for clerical assistance. They make peculiar requisitions on us, I understand, as we happen to be convenient to them, and we are constantly called upon to detail stenographers and clerks and to provide furniture, etc. There has been a recommendation heretofore that the General Supply Committee ought to be really made an independent and very active body, so that they will buy all the supplies and get the economies to be attained by large purchases and by having a central distributing point from which the articles required may be sent out on requisition from the department. That, of course, is a pretty big item to take up; but if the work is going to be handled as it is now, there ought to be some slight increase in our force to enable us to have our work properly done. The chief clerk will explain his view on that.

DISTRICT OF ALASKA-CLERK HIRE.

The chief clerk calls my attention to an item on page 138 carrying an increase in the item "For incidental and contingent expenses, clerk hire," for the District of Alaska, the increase being from $2,250 to $4,050. That is an increase in the office of the governor of Alaska that ought to be made. He has not the clerical force that he ought to have. Naturally there has been an increase in the business there.

Mr. BURLESON. Do you know the governor of Alaska?

Secretary FISHER. Yes, sir-that is to say, I met him for the first time up there last summer when I went around. In certain aspects of his work I think he has handled the affairs of his office very efficiently. The general administrative work has been quite an improvement. His duties in connection with the distribution of money for the support of schools and other things of that kind have been very much increased. He is asking for an increase in this incidental and contingent expenses and clerk hire, and I think it ought to be granted. It ought to be granted to any governor. The Territorial government itself has increased, and the labors of the office have

been generally increased because of the greater public attention to Alaska. That has served to increase the clerical work in the office. He is not asking for any increase in his own salary, but he is asking for less than $2,000 for the increase of his clerical assistance. If he is to keep on as governor, or if anybody else is to succeed him, I think that is an item that ought to be granted. You can not pick up casual assistance like that in Alaska; you must have the man available.

CHIEF DISBURSING CLERK.

[See also p. 168.]

Do

Mr. UCKER. I think the Secretary left off on the item relating to an increase for the chief disbursing clerk from $2,250 to $3,000. you want me to say anything on that? It is covered by note e. Mr. BURLESON. Is your note pretty full on that?

Mr. UCKER. Yes, sir; it is quite full.

Mr. BURLESON. Then suppose you pass on to some item where you have no note.

GENERAL SUPPLY COMMITTEE, REPRESENTATION ON.

Mr. UCKER. You will observe that the $2,000 clerks there are increased from 4 to 5, the clerks of class 4 are increased from 13 to 14, the clerks of class 3 are increased from 18 to 19, clerks of class 2 are increased from 21 to 22, and clerks of class 1 are increased from 24 to 26. That increase in the number of clerks from 4 to 5 at $2,000 is to provide for one man to represent us on the General Supply Committee. This General Supply Committee, I would say, so far as I am personally concerned, is one of the best moves ever made. The work has been satisfactory so far, at least, as our department is concerned. We have had on this committee for the last three years one clerk at $2,000 and one at $1,600 continuously, and we have loaned them a number of clerks and stenographers from time to time. That has embarrassed my office pretty seriously, the volume of work necessarily increasing for the other clerks. Mr. Ayers is our representative on the General Supply Committee. I want this $2,000 clerk. If we are to continue to operate that General Supply Committee I want another clerk at $2,000 to represent us on that supply committee, or to take Mr. Ayers's place in the department.

Mr. BURLESON. How many clerks does the general supply committee utilize?

Mr. UCKER. I will have to ask Mr. Ayers that.

Mr. AYERS. It varies according to the time of the year in which the work is going along. This time of the year we have only 10 or 12, and we are not busy all the time.

Mr. BURLESON. You say you are not busy all the time?

Mr. AYERS. Not continuously; no, sir.

Mr. BURLESON. You are engaged only for a short period of time? Mr. AYERS. During the spring-that is, the contracting seasonfrom April until along in July we are quite busy, and the clerical force during that time consists of from 40 to 50 people who are detailed from the various departments. Then the force drops down to 8 or 10 people.

Mr. BURLESON. Is not that work being simplified?

Mr. AYERS. It is so far as we have progressed with it, but the number of additional items that are being placed there has increased so that the volume of work keeps up. The work has been very onerous in some respects. For instance, take the one item of paper; there were 75 schedules or specifications in that one item with that many samples used to describe the paper. We had to analyze these grades and take up each particular sample that made up the 75 different grades of paper, but now we have that reduced to a standard specification.

Mr. BURLESON. You mean that you have it standardized?
Mr. AYERS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BURLESON. Well, when you have established the standard, there should be no more work on that.

Mr. AYERS. Not on paper, but there are many other items that we must take into consideration. We have standardized possibly not more than 20 per cent of the articles used.

Mr. BURLESON. Why should this work be so difficult, and why should this effort to standardize be protracted and drawn out? Is it because you have too many men and too many minds to deal with?

Mr. AYERS. It is because the volume is so great that it is a physical impossibility to perform all of the work at one time, and, besides, the items do not come to us at once and we are not able to determine which item it is necessary to standardize.

Mr. BURLESON. Are the men engaged in that work fully in sympathy with the purposes sought to be attained?

Mr. UCKER. I think that is one of the troubles.

Mr. BURLESON. Are the representatives on that committee in full sympathy and accord with the purposes sought to be attained by that law?

Mr. AYERS. I should suppose they were or they would not be members of the committee. If they were not in sympathy with the purpose I should think they would ask to be relieved of the service on the committee.

Mr. BURLESON. I want to know whether they are in sympathy with the purposes of that law or with the policy that the law has in view. Mr. AYERS. We are just expressing our views to the Secretary of the Treasury in a report covering that, and it has been printed and sent to him to-day. He asked the committee to express their views. I have not a copy of that report with me, but it is being sent to the Secretary of the Treasury. I will say for your information that it is the sense of the committee that their powers should be enlarged. The result of their work is of such importance that they think their powers should be enlarged and the scope of their work broadened. Mr. BURLESON. Don't you believe that more effective work could be accomplished by having just one individual to deal with this subject matter?

Mr. AYERS. Do you mean to have a single head?

Mr. BURLESON. Yes, sir; to establish these standards without reference to the whims and caprices of innumerable clerks from nine different departments?

Mr. AYERS. Possibly so, but that single head would have to have assistants from each one of the departments, or should have, I think,

such assistants. Personally I am in favor of a single head in control in preference to a commission.

Mr. BURLESON. I have an idea in my head which I have gained from some quarter that the men who are engaged in this work are not in sympathy with the purposes in view, and, if that is true, of course nothing substantial is going to result from it.

Mr. AYERS. I am quite sure that you are incorrectly advised.

Mr. UCKER. The commission, as you understand, is made up of just one representative from each department. Now, of course, there are at times many clerks sent in from the various departments. Now, I think that, so far as the representatives themselves are concerned, they are heartily in sympathy with the purposes sought to be attained; and I think, if I read them correctly from what contact I have had with them, that they chafe somewhat under restraint. But my difficulty is this: That the departments are not thoroughly in sympathy with them when they call upon them to furnish help. The best help available ought to be furnished. I try to send the best people I have over there, and do that at a sacrifice and an increase of the work on those who remain there. Now, when you take up the question of standards, there are some big items that have not been standardized, and one of them is typewriters. That is a mighty big item in the Government service; and an effort is being made to standardize typewriters, but somehow we do not progress with that very rapidly. Mr. GILLETT. That runs up against private interests.

Mr. BURLESON. All of it runs up against private interests. do that when you standardize paper and pencils.

You

Mr. AYERS. We have been advised that the price of paper will be advanced, and that the manufacturers of paper will increase the cost of paper to the Government. They claim that this advance in price will be due to the congressional investigations that have been held along the line of investigating their affairs. They claim that these investigations have greatly increased the cost of production to them by reason of the additional clerical help they have been compelled to employ and the time and the expense involved in these investigations. They claim that inasmuch as these investigations were had by the Government and as the Government has entailed upon them this additional expense, the Government as a purchaser of paper should bear the additional expense.

. Mr. BURLESON. Maybe England, Germany, or some other country would furnish it cheaper.

Mr. AYERS. The increase is not apparent at the present time, but we have been advised that we may expect it.

Mr. BURLESON. In other words, you have been advised that they have combined to make the Government bear the expense incurred in the effort to take the duty off of wood pulp?

Mr. AYERS. That is what they say we may expect.

INCREASE OF CLERICAL FORCE.

Mr. UCKER. The increas of class 4 clerks from 13 to 14 is explained in note i. I do not know that I can state any more than is stated there in note i. The next increase is explained in note j, "This high-grade clerk is required in the Mails and Files Division."

Mr. BURLESON. You need not read these notes.

Mr. UCKER. I am just calling attention to that. As a matter of fact, I have nothing to say in addition to the notes on any of these things.

Mr. BURLESON. Then, suppose you pass on to some item on which you wish to submit something in addition.

REORGANIZATION OF LABOR FORCE.

Mr. UCKER. If you will recall, we have had up here for the last three years the general question of the reorganization of the labor and mechanical forces, and we have talked about that so long that it is probably unnecessary to say anything further on that subject

now.

Mr. BURLESON. I think we have heard you fully on that.

Mr. UCKER. I think so.

Mr. BURLESON. I know you feel deeply on that subject.

Mr. UCKER. There are a few of them left in here. In this connection, I would like to submit the following memorandum:

It is recommended that the following items be included in the legislative bill for the period ending June 30, 1914: One machinist, at $1,440 per annum, in lieu of one engineer, at $1,200 per annum, dropped from the Pension Office roll by the legislative act for the fiscal year 1913. This machinist is badly needed from the fact that all repairs to engines, generators, and all accessories to the plant could be made in the department machine shop for at least 50 per cent iess than by outside contract, and many times it is impossible to get repairs made by outside machinists when an emergency arises, which is necessary to keep the plant in operation.

It is also recommended that three of the present force of firemen, at $720 per annum, be dropped, and two steam fitters, at $1,000 per annum each, appointed instead. In this transaction $160 per annum would be saved. The department has no regular steam fitters and the only way this work has been done in the past was by substituting firemen, which is very unsatisfactory and delays the work, as it can not be expected that firemen could accomplish the class or quantity of work of skilled steam fitters, hence this recommendation.

CHIEF ENGINEER.

Mr. UCKER. I want to invite your attention to a request for an increase in the salary of the chief engineer of the Interior Departinent. We have a plant down there valued at from $150,000 to $175,000. This matter is fully covered by note N.

Mr. BURLESON. How much is he receiving now?

Mr. UCKER. $1,600. I think our plant there is possibly the largest in the city, except the one in operation down here.

REORGANIZATION OF LABOR FORCES.

Now, the only reason I have taken up this matter is that I would like to eventually get all these things down to a cost-keeping system and get all this repair and construction work in the various departments reduced to some basis or system, just as would be done by any business corporation if they were running the same thing. The questions whether the reasons put forth for it are good and sufficient are matters for the judgment of your committee.