CONTINGENT EXPENSES.

Mr. UCKER. The next item is for contingent expenses of the Department of the Interior, and there is something to be said in connection with this item of $16,000, including $3,500 on account of the system efficiency rating. I want to say in my own behalf that I went West in the last of September, and before I went I whipped these estimates into shape; and after I was gone Mr. Adams, the Acting Secretary, changed them in some respects, and these hearings came on before I expected it, and I have not had time to go over this.

Mr. AYERS. The appropriation for this year is $122,000 and the department has asked that it be increased to $130,000, and the civil service submitted an increase of $16,000. Of the $130,000 the Civil Service Commission was to have $7,500. The additional increase amounted to the difference between that and $16,000, and is provided in a supplemental statement furnished to your committee, which amends the estimate by changing $130,000 to $138,500. That is to provide for the increase asked for by the Civil Service Commission.

Mr. BURLESON. What do you want with your increase of $8,000? Mr. UCKER. Well, Mr. Burleson, that is substantially the old story. We have been here, I think, every year I have had to do with these estimates asking for an increase. The prices of commodities are constantly increasing.

Mr. BURLESON. It looks as if you had been getting increases. You got $7,000 additional in 1912.

Mr. UCKER. We have had one bureau added since the Bureau of Mines. That increase was directly due to the Bureau of Mines; consequently, so far as the balance of the department is concerned, it has had no increase. There is a constant increase in the price of commodities, and also an increase in the activities of the department. Strange as it may seem, the volume of work in the department is constantly growing.

Mr. BURLESON. This includes all the bureaus of the Interior Department-Indian Affairs and everything else?

Mr. UCKER. This includes all the bureaus of the Interior Department and the Secretary's office, and a great deal of money has been and is being spent for new furniture and new supplies, general replacement of worn-out material.

What does it mean by the word "absolutely" there being in brackets?

Mr. BURLESON. That means you are trying to have it put out.

Mr. AYERS. That was done at the suggestion of the disbursing officer. He raised the question as to whether the text of the appropriation was not too general, and he thought that would make it clearer. Mr. BURLESON. Then all you can say in support of the suggestion that the contingent-expense item be increased $8,000 is that you need the money because of the increased cost of the article?

Mr. UCKER. Because of the increased cost of the article, because of the increased activities of the department, and because of the desire to replace, especially in the Patent Office, worn-out and obsolete desks and furniture. You will recollect there came up here one day last year an estimate, I think, for $196,000 for new furniture.

Mr. BURLESON. You have been buying furniture out of this contingent fund for a number of years, have you not?

Mr. UCKER. Yes, sir.

Mr. BURLESON. What do you spend on an average for furniture? Mr. AYERS. That would depend upon what you regard as furniture. Do you mean chairs and desks and tables?

Mr. BURLESON. And file cases.

Mr. AYERS. I should think 10 per cent of the appropriation. You understand this has to take care of livery and all fixed charges, like fuel and ice.

Mr. BURLESON. You spend about $12,000 a year, then, on furniture? Mr. AYERS. Yes, sir.

Mr. UCKER. That does not represent the necessities, but represents what we are able to do when we weigh up the relative requirements. Mr. BURLESON. It does strike me there ought to come a time when you will have all the furniture you need.

Mr. UCKER. Well, so far as my connection with the administration of the office goes, I would be willing to do with the contingent fund what I am willing to do with the repair of buildings fund. If you will appropriate a lump sum and put the furniture in first-class shape, we will quit for the next five or six or eight years and reduce the appropriation correspondingly for the next period of years.

Mr. BURLESON. You know if this was a great industrial enterprise there would not be any such annual expenditure for furniture.

Mr. UCKER. No; I think, Mr. Burleson, an industrial enterprise would proceed through its board of directors to ascertain whether it was needed, and if it was they would vote the money and replace the furniture.

Mr. AYERS. This money is expended also for material of which many things are made by the department mechanics-for lumber, hardware, and other supplies purchased for the use in making cases and files.

There is just one thing I would like to mention in connection with that. If that increase is made to the Civil Service Commission without any increase in our appropriation, that would take that amount of money away from our appropriation.

Mr. UCKER. According to the wording there the Civil Service Commission is not only getting $8,000, but getting part of the appropriation we already have. They fared last year better than the department fared. They got a thousand dollars increase last year, and they got it off of the estimated increase of the department.

STATIONERY.

Mr. AYERS. The next item is for stationery, including tags, labels, index cards, and so on. There is an increase asked for of $500 for the same reason. The Civil Service Commission asked for that on account of the efficiency rating. The Civil Service Commission has asked for four or five hundred dollars in addition to what they now get.

PURCHASE OF PROFESSIONAL AND SCIENTIFIC BOOKS.

Mr. UCKER. The next item is on page 234, for the purchase of professional and scientific books. I do not know that I can say much on that. The last two assistant attorneys general brought their own libraries here.

Mr. BURLESON. You commenced asking for that in 1911 and you are still going on discharging the duties of the department there with a degree of efficiency that is highly creditable, and the Government has saved $1,500 the first year, $2,250 the next year, and $2,250 the next year, and still efficient service is being rendered by the Interior Department.

Mr. UCKER. Do you not think it is well to call attention to our needs?

Mr. BURLESON. Certainly. I am inviting you to do so.

Mr. UCKER. And our persistency ought to at least be commended. Mr. BURLESON. If you have any added eloquence, I now cordially extend an invitation to you.

Mr. UCKER. I would sooner expend it on some other item.

POSTAGE STAMPS.

The next item we are interested in is on page 207, for postage stamps for the department. I want to request, if it meets the views of the committee, they apportion a small part of this money for the purchase of special-delivery stamps.

Mr. GILLETT. Why can you not get them without that specific language?

Mr. UCKER. Mr. Acker brought this to my attention last night in particular.

Mr. BURLESON. I should think that is unnecessary.

Mr. UCKER. The section now reads, "For postage stamps for the Department of the Interior and its bureaus, as required under the Postal Union, to prepay postage on matter addressed to Postal Union countries." The auditing officer holds that that means it can be expended only for that particular purpose.

Mr. GILLETT. Have you another fund for the purchase of ordinary postage stamps?

Mr. UCKER. No, sir. We do not need them in this country, because we use the frank. There have been times this summer when we had to buy special-delivery stamps out of our own pockets when there have been calls from the Secretary to send papers to certain places.

BALING WASTE PAPER.

The next item is for the purchase of a machine for baling waste paper, and is fully explained in the note.

Mr. BURLESON. What kind of paper is that?

Mr. AYERS. Waste paper, discarded records, and files.

Mr. BURLESON. In 1911 you had 668,000 pounds.

Mr. UCKER. Yes, sir. I want to call particular attention to another thing. You will notice in 1911 we got 383 cents and in 1912

it dropped to 14.16 cents, and it is about that now.

Mr. BURLESON. Somebody is combining against you.

Mr. UCKER. There is no question of doubt about it.

Mr. GILLETT. How would baling help you?

Mr. UCKER. We would get better prices and could get bidders from other cities. We could load it on cars and ship to outside points. Mr. BURLESON. To people who manufacture wrapping paper?

Mr. AYERS. Yes, sir. We advertised this year four times for the sale of waste paper, hoping we might get more favorable prices, but we could not accomplish anything.

Mr. UCKER. I think that is one of the functions that ought to be taken over by the General Supply Committee for the whole service.

GENERAL LAND OFFICE.

STATEMENT OF MR. FRED DENNETT, COMMISSIONER, ACCOMPANIED BY MR. FRANK BOND, CHIEF CLERK.

Mr. DENNETT. I would state, Mr. Chairman, I think so far as the requests for increases are concerned, the matter has been fully set forth in the notes. In regard to the expenses in the offices of surveyors general, we can submit you a memorandum which will supplement the very brief note there and cover the whole matter.

SURVEYORS GENERAL.

Mr. BURLESON. Ought not some of those offices of surveyors general be abolished?

Mr. DENNETT. I do not think there is any one at present that ought to be abolished. The last one was abolished in South Dakota. Mr. GILLETT. And that was reinstated?

Mr. DENNETT. Just temporarily, in order to take charge of some work in Nebraska and also some mineral work that came from South Dakota.

Mr. GILLETT. When does that expire by limitation? Mr. DENNETT. It will continue until it is abolished. I do not think you would abolish any of the others. The work there is at maximum, and we do work under the direct system very much more economically than we ever did, and more rapidly. If you were to abolish any of them, you would get more complaints and would not get as satisfactory service. It is very important, in my estimation, that the surveyor general's office should be brought closely in contact with the work in the field. If you had a policy of abolishing the offices of surveyors' general, you would then necessarily bring all your surveyors into Washington to write up their field notes, and at considerable expense. I do not do that now. I do not bring any of them into Washington except the supervisors; last year, I think, one other man. We allow them traveling expenses to a place corresponding to the surveyor general's office, which may be their home, and do not allow them to come into Washington or pay their way into Washington.

Mr. BURLESON. You are satisfied in your own mind that it would not be an economy to abolish any of them?

Mr. DENNETT. Not outside of the surveyor general in South Dakota, and the office thinks in that regard that the small appropriation used for that office is justified by the work they now do.

Mr. BOND. The office in South Dakota is the first surveyor general's office that has mineral work to do that has come up for consideration for abolishment, and it is going to be exceedingly difficult to handle mining surveys at Washington. The mineral surveyor, while he is an appointee of the Government, is employed by private parties

altogether, and he wants to be in touch with the central office, where he files his field notes. In South Dakota we have asked for the retention of the surveyor general himself to handle that work chiefly, and since we began making resurveys in Nebraska we have had no means of handling those field notes. We have several parties in Nebraska, and for convenience and speed we are sending the field notes to the surveyor general of South Dakota, and we asked last year for $5,000 and received $4,000 for clerk hire. We are renewing that request this year, because those field notes are still coming in, and they can be handled more expeditiously in South Dakota than here in Washington.

Mr. BURLESON. Mr. Dennett, we will be glad for you to submit a statement setting forth your ideas as to a reorganization of the office.

1. The organization of the office under existing law is clumsy and antiquated, and altogether unsuitable for meeting conditions. This statement refers both to the organization in Washington and in the field. The best that possibly can be done with it has been done in spite of the law, rather than by aid of the law, and an organization should certainly be aided by the law, rather than checked in its work because of the inadequacy of the statutes.

The executive duties of the commissioner have been vastly increased of late years. My last annual report covered quite fully the changes that should be made. He has to help him one assistant commissioner. It is physically impossible for the commissioner and assistant commisioner to properly attend to all the executive duties, and the judicial work which he has to perform. Briefly, therefore, there should be created by law five positions to constitute the law board, of which the assistant commissioner should be a member, who should have the duty placed upon them of passing upon all legal decisions submitted to the office, subject to review by the commissioner, if he so desired. This would leave the commissioner at liberty to properly attend to the executive duties of the office, and would put upon the officer who signs the decision actual responsibility for that decision. By creating this board, to consist of five members, and by dividing the judicial duties amongst them, the officer signing the decision would have time to read it, and know what he was being held responsible for.

2. The position of receiver should be abolished and a bonded clerk at a lower salary substituted. This means that there would be a saving of considerable money every year-in the neighborhood of $100,000. The responsibility would also be put upon one officer instead of two, preventing discord in the office organization and a more satisfactory procedure adopted.

3. The appointments to positions of register should, under the law, be limited to those who have been admitted to practice and have had experience in the law. The register should be given power to hold court in various parts of his district for the purpose of hearing contests. His duties should be limited as far as possible to passing upon legal questions, leaving the detail work of the office to the clerks.

4. The proofs should be taken on the land. This could be done at no cost to the Government, the expenses of the proof taker to be paid by fees levied upon the claimant. This would entail no greater expense to the latter than that to which he is now put by having to pay his own expenses and those of his witnesses to the nearest point where proof can be taken. The process of taking proofs on the land would finally settle all question of fact at the time the proof was taken, obviate delay, and almost entirely obliterate any attempt at fraud. A saving would therefore be made in the work which is subsequently performed by the special agent.

5. The surveyor general should be classified, appointments to be made by promotion from the position of surveyor. In this way the efficiency of the force would be further improved, and a perfect system could be elaborated.

I have briefly stated this without any extended argument. Almost all of the matters submitted have been set forth in my reports from time to time.

I submit herewith the memorandum covering the matters of additional appropriations for offices of surveyors general.