bacco. An abolition of duties on silks and wines will increase our purchases of those articles, and her purchases of our cotton and tobacco, and require a great increase of ships for their transportation. The same of the West India trade. We have a great trade with these islands, the chief articles on our part beef, pork, flour, corn, corn meal, whiskey, bacon, and lumber; and hers, coffee and specie, of which they sent us last year fifty millions of pounds of the former, and two millions two hundred thousand dollars of the latter. Our duty on coffee is five cents a pound, more than half of the first cost of the article. Abofish it, and we shall take double the quantity of coffee, and greatly increase our exports of provisions and imports of specie.

Mr. B. had now finished his exposition of the reasons and policy of his resolutions. He had spoken to them all at once, but they could be discussed separately on the motion of any Senator; the vote, of course, would be on each separate resolution.

Mr. SMITH, of Md. moved the reference of the first resolution to the Committee of Finance. He said, that the subject was one that required much consideration; that he had applied some of his leisure hours to satisfy himself on the subject; that he had not yet perfected his inquiries. So far as he had gone had convinced him that the Senator (Mr. BENTON) was mistaken. If referred to the Committee, the subject would be fully investigated, and he believed it would be shown, that there would be of debt, (redeemable at the pleasure of the Government) sufficient, with the interest annually payable, to absorb the whole of the ten millions of dollars which the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund were authorized by law to apply annually to the payment of the principal and interest of the public debt. He had, he said, completed his inquiry for the years 1829 and 1830, and could state that there were of six and five per cent., redeemable during those years, a sum which, with the interest accruing for those years, would amount to $ 22, 878,639; the payment to be made for those two years, agreeably to law, was twenty millions, which would leave a surplus, payable in 1831, of $2,878 639. He trusted, he said, that he had satisfied the Senate, that, during the years 1829 and 1830 there were of stocks redeemable, and of interest payable, an amount amply sufficient to satisfy the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund for those two years. He added, that he was not yet prepared to give a statement respecting the years 1831 and 1832, but if the resolution should be committed, he hoped, and believed, that he would be able to show that, without any authority to purchase, the whole or nearly the whole of the 6, 5, and 44 per cent. debts, (Bank debt excepted) might be paid off in 1832.

[JAN. 7 to 12, 1829.

"From a painful conviction that a manifestation of the public sentiment, in the most imposing and impressive form, is called for by the present agitated state of the Southern section of the Union, the General Assembly of the State of Georgia have deemed it their duty to adopt the novel expedient of addressing, in the name of the State, the Senate of the Congress of the United States. "In her sovereign character, the State of Georgia protests against the act of the last session of Congress, entitled An act in alteration title, fraudulent in its pretexts, oppressive in its exactions, partial of the several acts imposing duties on imports," as deceptive in its and unjust in its operations, unconstitutional in its well-known objects, ruinous to commerce and agriculture-to secure a hateful monopoly to a combination of importanate manufacturers. "Demanding the repeal of an act which has already disturbed the Union and endangered the public tranquillity, weakened the confi dence of whole States in the Federal Government, and diminished the affection of large masses of the people to the Union itself, and the aban donment of the degrading system which considers the people as incapable of wisely directing their own enterprise; which sets up the servants of the people in Congress as the exclusive judges of what pursuits are most advantageous and suitable for those by whom they were elected, the State of Georgia expects that, in perpetual testimony thereof, the deliberate and solemn expression of her opinion will be carefully character to the present generation, and to posterity,if, unfortunately, preserved among the archives of the Senate; and in justification of her Congress, disregarding the protest, and continuing to pervert powers granted for clearly defined and well understood purposes, to effectu ate objects never intended by the great parties by whom the Constitu tion was framed, to be entrusted to the controlling guardianship of the Federal Government, should render necessary measures of a decisive character, for the protection of the people of the State, and the vindication of the Constitution of the United States.

IRBY HUDSON,

Speaker of the House of Representatives.
THOMAS STOCKS,

President of the Senate.
JOHN FORSYTH, Governor."

Mr. BERRIEN said, that the annunciation made from the Chair, imposed a duty on his colleague and himself, which, with his assent, he would perform, by giving a direction, with the sanction of the Senate, to the document, which had been just announced. I am not willing, sir, [said Mr. B.] to see an act so grave and interesting in its character, pass away with those mere every day events which are forgotten almost in the instant of their Occurrence. In order, therefore, that it may be distinctly presented to the notice of the Senate, before I submit the rotion which it calls for, I will state its purport, and

That document, sir, of which an official copy has been transmitted to my colleague and myself, is the protest of the State of Georgia, made through her constitutional organs, to this assembly of the Representatives of States, against the "act in alteration of the several acts laying duties on imports," passed at the late session of the Con

to debate.

WEDNESDAY, JAN. 7, 1829.

THURSDAY, JAN. 8, 1829.

There was little business transacted this day-nothing to occasion debate. Adjourned to Monday.

tionaries, and authenticated under her public seal.

It is now delivered to this Department of the Federal Government, to be deposited in its archives, in perpetuam rei memoriam, to serve whenever the occasion may require it, as an authentic testimony of the solemn dissent of

chases. There can be no doubt, that, by a judicious course of purchases of this debt, a very large sum may be saved to the public.

Mr. BENTON called for a division of the question, so that the Senate might decide separately on each clause of the resolution; which was agreed to.

Mr. B. then stated, that he was opposed to sending his resolutions to the Finance Committee, as mere resolutions of inquiry. He had sent them to that committee, in that form, at the last session, and had them returned, like a bill of indictment ignored by the grand jury. He did not think it worth while to send them, through the same process, a second time. He was for discussing them here, as he had a right to do, under the rules of the Senate, which it was proper to do on many occasions, and doubly proper on this occasion, when the question which grew out of his resolutions was one of principle, not of detail, and when the committee had once shown themselves to be unfavorable. He was glad to see the Senator from New York (Mr. SANFORD) on his side. He had not expected to argue these questions, but only to turn the attention of others to them, who were more conversant than himself with subjects of finance. His walk lay in a different field-among the public lands, the military and the Indian affairs. As for the finances, the public debt, the sinking fund, the abolition of duties, and the balances in the hands of the Bank, they were all subjects out of his range, and, in moving certain resolutions about them, at the last session, he thought he had nothing to do but to put the ball in motion. But quite the contrary he had found to be the fact. The ball soon stopped, or rather rolled back upon him; and, as he was not a man to give up when he thought himself right, he had now done what he pledged himself to do, at the last sessionhe had started the ball again, and meant to keep it a go- | ing. He was rejoiced to see the Senator from New York (Mr. SANFORD) taking part with him even on one branch

of his resolutions.

Mr. DICKERSON said, he did not rise to oppose the reference of the subject to the Committee on Finance; yet he was not willing to adopt the resolution, and give the discretionary power to the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund which was proposed. It certainly was desirable to extinguish the public debt, as soon as a due regard to the general interest would permit. It will be highly gratifying to proclaim to the world that we are out of debt. To purchase up the debt would be to incur a heavy loss; we cannot gratify ourselves in this particular, with out paying too dearly for the gratification. The gentleman from New York (Mr. SANFORD) had stated truly, that the creditors in Europe owned a very considerable portion of the stock of the United States, and had remarked that the three per cent. stock might be purchased at $3 or 85 per cent. But the fact was, that, if we purchased at 85, we should lose two millions, and, if at its nominal value, four millions of dollars. The Commissioners of the Sinking Fund are now authorized to purchase this stock at $65 for the hundred, which is considered its par value; the whole, at that rate, would amount to something more than eight and a half millions of dollars; if we purchase it at $85 the hundred, the present market price, it will cost us more than eleven millions of dollars; and, of course, we should incur a loss of more than two and a half millions; and, if we redeem it at its nominal value, we shall incur a loss of more than four and a half millions; and this to be taken from our Treasury, and a considerable part of it put into the pockers of stockjobbers in Europe. What would be the consequence of going into the market, and purchasing the public debt, as proposed? Why, our stock in Europe, as well as at home, would immediately take a rise, and its value would be considerably increased. The argument of the gentleman from Missouri, relative to British stocks,

[JAN. 12, 1828.

would not avail in this country: for the price of our stock will certainly be increased with the increased demand for it, should a law be passed as proposed; and, if the price for the three per cents. should be fixed at 85, it would immediately rise above it; and, the moment we resolve to purchase up the debt, or to redeem it as soon as proposed, it would rise to its nominal value, and we should have to pay dollar for dollar. Thus, no benefit would arise to the United States, but much to the holders of the stock. The Sinking Fund, he contended, was merely a resolution to pay ten millions a year of the public debt; it was never contemplated to buy up stock to any great extent, nor was it ever expected that it would have that effect. The Sinking Fund had answered all the purposes expected from it, one of which was to keep up the price of United States' stock, and had fully accomplished the object of its creation. The three per cent. stock may be continued for years, under an arrangement, and not felt as a burthen by the community; and, if gentlemen entertained the opinion, that the debt might, with safety, be reduced more rapidly than at present, a power could be given to the Secretary of the Treasury to purchase as occasions offered, which would answer every reasonable purpose. He would leave the matter to the Committee on Finance, so far as an inquiry into the expediency of the measure was concerned; but he could not, as at present impressed, vote for the passage of the proposed law; at least, so far as he was concerned, he thought the inquiry by the Committee should precede the passage of the law.

After a remark or two from Mr. SANFORD, in further explanation of his views of the subject,

Mr. SMITH, of Maryland, said, that, having made the motion, it was incumbent on him to say a few words on the subject. He then took an extended view of the funding system, from its commencement. He said, that the old six per cents. had been considered irredeemable, except by the payment of eight per cent. per annum, on every certificate for one hundred dollars; that, in the year 1802, Congress passed an act, appropriating the sum of $7,300,000 dollars, to be paid annually to the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund, to be applied by them to the payment of the principal and interest of the public debt; and, on the purchase of Louisiana, an addition was made to that fund of $700,000, making the whole fund eight millions—that the system operated well. It enabled the Treasury to pay off with the surplus funds the debt due to Holland; but that debt being paid off, a large surplus would have remained in the Treasury, inapplicable to any object, until the eight per cents., contracted in Mr. Adams's administration, should become payable, which was, he believed, in 1809. To obviate that difficulty, a proposal was made, in 1806, he believed, to the holders of the six per cent. debt, and acquiesced in by them, that, in lieu of the stock held by them, payable, as already stated, by eight dollars annually on the 100 dollars, they should receive a new stock for the balances due to them, bearing an interest of six per cent., and redeemable at pleasure. That arrangement enabled the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund to apply, annually, the whole of the eight millions, and the old six per cents. have been paid off many years (he believed nine) sooner than could have been done under the previous system.

The late war involved the United States in a large debt, he believed, exceeding one hundred and twenty millions of dollars; and a new law passed, on the 3d of March, 1817, which appropriated ten millions of dollars, annually, to be applied to the payment of the interest and principal of the debt. The system has operated as well as its most sanguine friends could have contemplated. It is due to Mr. LoWNDES, then Chairman of the Committee of Ways and Means. It has nearly paid off

the whole of the debt, and will, without any extraneous aid, discharge nearly the whole (the three per cents. and bank debt excepted) in the year 1832.

But, said Mr. S. we are told that we cannot pay the debt, except by purchase. Why? Because the Senator (Mr. BENTON) assures us, "that there was no way to prevent an accumulation of near twenty millions of dollars in the Treasury, in the years 1832 and 1833, to lie there idle, (or rather in the bank) or, what was worse, to be directed to some subordinate object, while public debt to that amount was unpaid, and drawing interest."

If, said Mr. S. the Senator be correct in his assertion, then it is indispensably necessary that the Senate should adopt some measure to prevent so great an evil. If, however, he should have been mistaken in his calculations, and, if it can be shown that there will be of debt redeemable nearly sufficient to absorb the ten millions at the disposition of the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund, and the small deficiency can be supplied, without the necessity of having recourse to purchase; and, if it can be shown that nearly the whole, perhaps the whole, of the debt will be paid off before the year 1833, then the authority to purchase the 4, 5, and 6 per cents. will be wholly unnecessary. Mr. S. said, that he hoped to satisfy the Senate on all those points. It had been, he said, the practice of his long life to have recourse to figures, on all similar subjects; not, he said, to figures of speech or rhetoric, but to arithmetical figures. He could rely on them for truth, and would proceed to state the ground on which he relied with confidence.

The debt, he said, amounted, on the 1st of January, to $58,362,125; deduct therefrom the bank debt and the three per cent., amounting together to $20,296,249, and there will remain a debt of 6, 5, and 44 per cents. of $38,065,886, which, he expected, might nearly be discharged in the year 1832, perhaps entirely.

Mr. S. proceeded and said, that there will be redeemable, in 1829 and 1830, an amount of six and five per cents. redeemable at pleasure, which, with the interest on the whole debt, will make together the sum of $22,553,179, being $2,553,179 more than the twenty millions applicable by the Commissioners to the payment of the debt and interest for those two years. That unpaid balance, Mr. S. said, would be paid in 1831, which, together with stock, redeemable in that year, bearing an interest of 4 and 5 per cent., would, with the interest payable in that year, afford an amount, redeemable and payable, of $15,353,824; in that year, the Commissioners would, of course, pay the ten millions, and there would then remain a balance, to be paid in 1832, of $5,353,824. Here, Mr. S. stated separately the amount of the several stocks that became redeemable, during the year 1831, and the amount of interest payable; he also said, that it was proper for him to inform the Senate that $10,999,000 of those stocks were not redeemable until the 31st of December of that year, of course, that there would only be a little more than $2,600,000 that the debtor could be compelled to receive, on the 1st of July, the time at which the semi-annual payment is generally made; but, as more than six millions of that stock was held by the Bank of the United States, he could not doubt that the Board of Directors would readily consent to relinquish so much as would be necessrry to complete the usual payment of five millions, in July. He did not doubt, he said, for he believed they were well disposed to do any thing in their power to accommodate the Government. It was greatly their interest to be on the best terms with the Treasury. The inconvenience would be trifling; besides, they would know, that, unless they did accommodate, the Commissioners would be compelled to redeem a part of the seven millions Bank debt.

Mr. S. then said, that he hoped that he had satisfied the Senate that there were more than sufficient of stock

VOL. V.-4.

[SENATE.

redeemable and interest payable, during the years 1829, 1830, and 1831, to absorb the thirty millions applicable, during those years, to the payment of the debt, and that there would be no unemployed money in the Treasury or Bank during those years.

The balance unpaid, in 1831, said Mr. S., of $5,353,824, would be paid, in 1832, which, with the stock redeemable in that year, and the interest to be paid, would together make the sum of $8,896,779; being about a million less than the ten millions in the hands of the Com. missioners; which million would, he conceived, be relinquished by the Bank from the stock it held in the loan, due on the 31st December, 1834, for reasons similar to those he had already given; indeed, he said, he felt certain that they would accommodate the Treasury, without hesitation.

Mr. S. proceeded, and said, that he trusted that he had satisfied the Senate, that, instead of twenty millions laying in the Treasury unapplied, whilst a debt was unpaid, bearing interest, that there would not be one dollar. It was, however, proper for him to state, that there would still remain a small debt of about two millions, redeemable in 1833, and another, of a little more, in 1834; but that they were not of importance, and would be paid without being felt; that it was possible the whole of those debts might, by management, and an increase of revenue, be paid in 1832. If not, it ought not to deter us from repealing the duties on articles which now give a revenue of eight, perhaps (ten millions; but, on that subject we could act more advisedly at the next session, when we should better know the effect of the last tariff. himself, he was decidedly of opinion that duties to that amount ought to be repealed, and, in the recess, he would prepare a bill with a view to that object, which he thought he could submit early in the session. But he was unwilling to touch the subject during the present session, for it was one that required time and great consideration.

For

Mr. President, said Mr. S., the view I have presented is predicated on the present state of our affairs, and the existing laws; he could not, and would not, pretend to estimate whether the revenue will be greater or less than it has been heretofore. It may be such as will enable the Commissioners to pay more than the ten millions per annum. The Secretary says that it will exceed the esti mates for the expense of the current year in the sum of a million and a half of dollars, but we may make extraordinary appropriations to that amount during the present session; we seldom have made less. The Secretary goes farther, and thinks it probable that the revenue which will be rereceived in 1829, will exceed his estimate, and he, Mr. S. fully agreed with him; yet we may both be mistaken. If we are right, then the Commissioners may pay this year more than the 10,000,000. The Secretary has afforded us no data for 1830, and he has acted prudently: for no human foresight can tell. We may speculate upon it, but there can be no dependence upon our speculations. It is, however, reasonable to suppose that the importa tions in autumn, especially of woollens, will fall very far short of those of 1828, of course that the receipts in 1830, when the bonds become due, will perhaps be less than those were of 1827. The importations of 1830 may increase, and those of 1831 may be as great as ever they have been: for I am not one of those who believe that the tariff will exclude importations. The articles will be required for the consumption, and they will come as usual, openly, and pay the duties, unless, indeed, the demand shall be supplied by smugglers, which is to be feared. The temptation given by the late tariff is so great, it may become a business; and men will probably be found, who will, for one quarter of the duties, ensure the safe delive. ry of the articles wanted.

Mr. S. (addressing the Chair) said, that he hoped he had shown that there was ample employment for all our