We will try to push it along on Monday and Tuesday, and it may occupy the whole day, if possible. Thank you all again for being here. (Whereupon, at 12:45 p. m., Friday, September 14, 1945, the hearing in the matter of S. 1120 was adjourned, to reconvene Monday, September 17, 1945.) REORGANIZATION OF THE EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENTS MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 1945 UNITED STATES SENATE, SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, Washington, D. C. The subcommittee met at 1:30 p. m., pursuant to adjournment, Senator Pat McCarran presiding. Senator MCCARRAN. The committee will please come to order. The chairman inserts in the record at this time a letter from the Honorable L. B. Schwellenbach, Secretary of Labor, and others, as follows: Hon. PAT MCCARRAN, United States Senate, Washington, D. C. DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, MY DEAR SENATOR MCCARRAN: I have your letter of August 30, in which you informed me of hearings to be held before a Judiciary Subcommittee on S.. 1120, the so-called reorganization bill. I have noted the alternative suggestions made in your letter as to the methods of which the Department may avail itself when presenting its views. I wish to thank you for furnishing the Department this opportunity to present its views. If it is decided that an oral statement before the subcommittee will be made by a representative of the Department, I shall advise you the name and telephone extension of the spokesman, as you have requested. Yours very truly, L. B. SCHWELLENBACH. SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION, Hon. PAT MCCARRAN, United States Senate, Washington, D. C. MY DEAR SENATOR: We appreciate the opportunity afforded to us to comment on S. 1120, a bill to provide for the reorganization of Government agencies and for other purposes. We have examined the provisions of the proposed measure, but the Commission does not feel that it cares to make any comments with respect to it at this time. Thank you again for your courtesy in this matter. Sincerely yours, GANSON PURCELL, Chairman. FEDERAL SECURITY AGENCY, Washington 25, September 5, 1945. Hon. PAT MCCARRAN, Chairman, Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, Washington 25, D. C. DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: This letter will acknowledge and thank you for yours of August 30, 1945, in which you invited an expression of the views of the Federal Security Agency concerning S. 1120, the so-called reorganization bill, and a committee print thereof. While I appreciate your offer of an opportunity to comment on the bill, I believe it is better that I should not do so. If the subcommittee should desire any information which we are able to furnish, we would, of course, be most happy to be of assistance. With kindest personal regards. WATSON B. MILLER, Acting Administrator. Hon. PAT MCCARRAN, POST OFFICE DEPARTMENT, OFFICE OF THE POSTMASTER General, United States Senate. DEAR SENATOR MCCARRAN: I have your letter of August 30, 1945, transmitting a copy of S. 1120, the so-called reorganization bill, with certain suggested amend ments. I wish at this time to take advantage of your suggestion that it will be satisfactory to the subcommittee to withhold comment. I do appreciate, however, your courtesy in sending a copy of the bill to me and giving me an opportunity to make any necessary statement. Sincerely yours, ROBERT E. HANNEGAN, FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION, Hon. PAT MCCARRAN, Chairman, Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, Washington, D. C. DEAR SENATOR MCCARRAN: I am writing in reply to your letter of August 30, 1945, transmitting copy of S. 1120 and of a committee print thereof, dated August 30, 1945. In view of your statement that it will be entirely satisfactory to the subcommittee for the Commission to elect to withhold comment, I desire to state, by direction of the Commission, that it elects to withhold comment on said bill. With kind personal regards, I am, Sincerely yours, EWIN L. DAVIS, Chairman. Hon. PAT MCCARRAN, VETERANS' ADMINISTRATION, Washington 25, D. C., September 7, 1945. Chairman, Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, Washington, D. C. MY DEAR SENATOR MCCARRAN: I am in receipt of your letter of August 30 with which you transmitted copy of S. 1120, a bill to provide for the reorganization of Government agencies, and for other purposes, and also a committee print thereof dated August 30, 1945. I do not believe that I should comment on the bill, inasmuch as it probably would not affect the responsibilities of the Veterans' Administration. However, I may note in passing that most of the amendments contained in the committee print seem to clarify the intent. If at any time during the hearings information is desired, or the committee should wish representation from the Veterans' Administration, it will be appreciated if you will notify the Solicitor, Mr. Edward E. Odom, extension 534. Very truly yours, OMAR N. BRADLEY, Is Mrs. Harold A. Stone, of the National League of Women Voters present? Mrs. STONE. Yes, Senator McCarran. Senator MCCARRAN. Mrs. Stone, will you be seated there, please? STATEMENT OF MRS. HAROLD A. STONE, OF THE NATIONAL LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS Mrs. STONE. I have just a brief statement. Senator MCCARRAN. Will you, for the record, kindly state your name and your official position? Mrs. STONE. I am Mrs. Harold A. Stone. I am a director of the National League of Women Voters. Senator MCCARRAN. Where is your place of residence? As an organization which has long been concerned with the organization of Government, the National League of Women Voters is deeply interested in the proposal before your committee at the present time to authorize the President to make organizational changes in the administrative structure of the Federal Government. The need for reorganization is evident. The haphazard growth of the functions of our national Government has resulted in a patchwork of agencies, bureaus, departments, and offices. As each has grown, it has become more and more difficult for the citizen and his representatives in Congress to understand and control the policies under which the various functions are performed. The total operations become so complex that only through a logical and well-coordinated administrative organization can you, the Congress, exercise the control which is essential to democracy. There is general agreement that reorganization is necessary. It is obvious, too, that over-all changes cannot be made except by the executive branch. With the Chief Executive lies the responsibility for carrying out the functions which Congress hs established. With him lies the knowledge of what needs to be done and the tools for doing it. The authority should be given to him, unhampered by requirements that certain agencies cannot be touched, that he cannot propose a new department or that he cannot consolidate the functions of two departments. He must be able to make such changes as he finds necessary, if the executive branch is to meet effectively the enormous tasks which the postwar period has brought to Government. The ultimate authority can be retained by Congress through the provision that undesirable changes can be vetoed by both Houses within a specified period. It is important that gains in administrative efficiency which have been made under the authority of the First War Powers Act be retained and that this legislation repeal the provision which would make all such changes revert to their prewar status. The League of Women Voters believes that it is essential that the way be cleared for reorganization as rapidly as possible. Senator MCCARRAN. Do you favor exemption of certain agencies? Mrs. STONE. We do not. Senator MCCARRAN. In other words, you would have this bill so inclusive as to cover all agencies of the Government and place all agencies for reorganization in the hands of the President? Mrs. STONE. We feel that the President cannot do a good job without some flexibility there, and that Congress, so long as it has a veto, has safeguards against any undue exercise of power. Senator MCCARRAN. Now, as regards the veto, I take it that you recognize that that is almost a reversal of our constitutional position. Mrs. STONE. I do. Senator MCCARRAN. And you would, nevertheless, have that reversal come into effect? Mrs. STONE. In the case of this reorganization, yes. Senator MCCARRAN. Of course, there is much argument for that, and the argument is based on the statement-whether it be a fact or not that Congress cannot ever get together on a reorganization bill. That seems like a preposterous thing to say; it seems that it should not be a fact. But we will say that it is very difficult, at least. Now, there are certain departments that are strictly of legislative assistance, that belong to the legislative branch; as, for instance, the Comptroller General, which was set up to see that appropriations made by Congress should go to the point and for the use for which they were appropriated. Now, you would not have the Executive interfere with that? Mrs. STONE. No; that would be, I should think, the one exception. Senator MCCARRAN. Now, remember that the Constitution of the United States gives exclusive jurisdiction over interstate commerce to the Congress. Now, that being true, Congress found itself in years past unable to deal with the situation. It has more recently found itself unable to deal with the tariff, which is also a function of Congress. And many years ago we set up the Interstate Commerce Commission, for the purpose of dealing with interstate commerce, instead of the Congress itself. So it, too, is, to a large extent, legislative. And there, again, I wonder if you have thought of the question of exclusion? Mrs. STONE. I think that the league's answer would be that there are certain aspects of many of these 21 agencies that need to be thought of in their relationship to the over-all executive pattern and that the President is certainly very sensitive to those historic origins of such agencies as the Interstate Commerce Commission and that certainly he would not deal with those agencies in a way which would be unwise. Senator MCCARRAN. Now that it all right; that is ideal, and it is a lofty thought; but you do not always find that that works out, and you have to figure on different individuals being at the head of the executive branch. Ambitious individuals at the head of the executive branch, if they be given full leeway, might bring about a situation wherein the Congress might wish that it could take back what it had given away at some time or other. So it seems to me that is a very crucial point to be considered very carefully. Congress must not lose hold of the Government, because if it does, then our form of Government is lost. If we place all the power in the Executive, that was not the intent of the framers of this Government and scarcely would be tolerated by the people, as I view it. We are very grateful to you for coming before us. |