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Mr. Hale. The Senator from Arkansas is correct, as this bill was taken up in the morning hour.

I think the Senator in charge of the bill, as it is a matter which he knows to be of the greatest importance and some of us have had no time to consider it, had better let the bill go over, and then use his own discretion as to when he will move to take it up again. The Senate can be trusted with that. He can get the bill up when he moves to take it up, but I do not think the Senator will want to estop any Senators who desire to discuss the bill fully.

Mr. NELSON. Not at all.

Mr. Hale. Of course, he would not make progress with his bill by pursuing such a course. Therefore I suggest to the Senator that it go over now, and then the Senator can exercise his discretion in calling it up again.

Mr. Nelson. Very well. I have no disposition to make undue haste; I am quite willing to have the measure fully considered.

The PRESIDING OFFICER. The bill will retain its place on the Calendar.
Mr. NELSON: Let it retain its place.
Mr. HALE. Yes.

The debate was again taken up in the Senate on January 16, 1902, as follows:

Mr. Nelson. I ask unanimous consent for the present consideration of Senate bill 569, to establish the Department of Commerce.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Minnesota asks unanimous consent that the Senate proceed to the consideration of the bill (S. 569) to establish the Department of Commerce. Is there objection? The Chair hears none, and the bill is before the Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, under Rule VIII.

Mr. Nelson. I ask unanimous consent that the bill be considered without reference to Rule VIII, so as not to limit debate.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Minnesota asks unanimous consent that the further consideration of this bill be had without the limitation of debate contained in Rule VIII. Mr. NELSON. And without any other limitation of the rule.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Is there objection? The Chair hears none, and it is 80 ordered.

The Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, resumed the consideration of the bill. Mr. NELSON. I now ask that the bill be read for amendment. It has already been read at length.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. There is one committee amendment, and that has not yet been stated.

Mr. Nelson. The Senate has not yet acted on any amendment. There is one committee amendment, and after that is acted upon there will probably be two or three other amendments offered.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendment reported by the Committee on Commerce will be stated.

The SECRETARY. The Committee on Commerce reported an amendment to the bill, to insert as a new section the following:

SEC. 10. That all power and authority heretofore possessed or exercised by the head of any Executive Department over any bureau, office, branch, or division of the public service, by this act transferred to the Department of Commerce, or any business arising therefrom or pertaining thereto, whether of an appellate or revisory character, or otherwise, shall hereafter be vested in and exercised by the head of the said Department of Commerce. And all acts or parts of acts inconsistent with this act are, so far as so inconsistent, hereby repealed.

The amendment was agreed to. Mr. Nelson, In line 8 on page 2, section 2, after the words “chief clerk," I move to insert the words “and a disbursing clerk;' so as to read:

There shall also be one chief clerk and a disbursing clerk and such other clerical assistants as may from time to time be authorized by Congress.

The amendment was agreed to. Mr. NELSON. I now offer an amendment to come in at the end of line 10 of the same section. The object of this amendment is to have the Auditor of the State and other Departments audit the accounts of the new department as he does those of the other departments. This is in the language of the law in respect to the other departments.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The proposed amendment will be stated.

The SECRETARY. At the end of section 2, on page 2, line 10, after the word “Congress," it is proposed to insert:

And the Auditor of the State and other Departments shall receive all accounts accruing in or relative to the Department of Commerce and examine the same, and thereafter certify the balance and transmit the amounts of the vouchers and certificates to the Comptroller of the Treasury for his decision thereon.

The amendment was agreed to Mr. NELSON. On page 3, section 4, line 7, after the words “and that," I move to strike out the words “the office of Commissioner of Railroads.'

I desire to explain that amendment to the Senate. When this bill was originally prepared at the last Congress the office of Commissioner of Railroads was an existing office. It had escaped my attention that in an appropriation bill at the last Congress provision was made for abolishing the office, and the office of Commissioner of Railroads was abolished, to take effect on the 30th of June last. So there is no longer such an office.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendment proposed by the Senator from Minnesota will be stated.

The SECRETARY. On page 3, section 4, line 7, after the words “and that," it is proposed to strike out “the office of Commissioner of Railroads."

The amendment was agreed to. Mr. Lodge. I desire to offer an amendment, which I shall explain, as well as one or two subsequent minor amendments, which I am going to offer in a moment. On page 4, section 4, line 6, I move to strike out the first word, “relating,” and insert * pertaining exclusively."

Under the clause, as now broadly drawn, all the archives of the Consular Bureau in the State Department, covering a great deal of diplomatic correspondence, would be transferred to this new department. I know that such is not the intention of the bill, and I therefore suggest the change, striking out the word “relating,” and inserting the words "pertaining exclusively," so as to confine the transference of the archives from the Consular Bureau to those which relate to commerce and statistics.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendment proposed by the Senator from Massachusetts (Mr. Lodge] will be stated.

The SECRETARY. On page 4, section 4, at the beginning of line 6, it is proposed to strike out the word “relating," and to insert the words “ pertaining exclusively," so as to read:

That the official records and papers now on file in and pertaining exclusively to the business of any bureau, office, department, or branch of the public service in this act transferred to the Department of Commerce, together with the furniture now in use in such burean, office, department, or branch of the public service, shall be, and hereby is, transferred to the Department of Commerce.

Mr. NELSON. I can see no objection to that amendment.
The amendment was agreed to.

Mr. LODGE. I suggest in line 10, in the same clause, after the word “hereby," to strike out the word “is'' and to insert the word “are;” so as to read, “and hereby are, transferred to the Department of Commerce.”

The amendment was agreed to.

Mr. LODGE. On page 5, I desire to offer two or three small amendments, all of which have a common purpose, and that purpose is to leave it within the control of the State Department to separate in the consular correspondence those portions which are diplomatic and political from those which are commercial, so that the commercial part may all be transferred to the Department of Commerce, but that anything diplomatic or political shall be retained in the State Department. That work, of course, must be done in that Department, in my opinion.

I shall offer a further amendment at the end of the bill, providing for an officer in the State Department to take charge of that specific work, which, of course, has hitherto been performed by the Bureau of Foreign Commerce, which it is now proposed to transfer to the new Department.

In line 6, section 5, page 5, after the words “Secretary of," I move to strike out " commerce" and insert “State," so that the consuls, etc., shall act under the direction of the Secretary of State. It seems to me it is improper for them to have two masters.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendment proposed by the Senator from Massachusetts will be stated.

The SECRETARY. On page 5, section 5, line 6, after the words “Secretary of," it is proposed to strike out “commerce” and insert “State;'' so as to read:

And all consular officers of the United States, including consul-generals, consuls, and commercial agents, are hereby required, and it is made a part of their duty, under the direction of the Secretary of State, to gather and compile, from time to time, useful and material information and statistics in respect to the commerce, industries, and markets of the countries and places to which such consular officers are accredited.

Mr. Nelson. There is no objection to the amendment.
The amendment was agreed to.
Mr. LODGE. In the same section, on page 5, line 7, after the word “time," I move
to insert "upon the request of the Secretary of Commerce;" so as to read:

To gather and compile, from time to time, upon the request of the Secretary of Commerce, useful and material information, etc.

The amendment was agreed to.

Mr. LODGE. In the same section, on page 5, line 10, after the words “to send," I move to insert “ under the direction of the Secretary of State;" so as to read:

To send, under the direction of the Secretary of State, reports quarterly, or oftener if required, etc. The amendment was agreed to. Mr. Lodge. I now offer as a new section, to come in at the end of the bill, an amendment providing for the appointment of an officer in the State Department, whom I have already described, to go over these reports and separate the portions which are to go to the Department of Commerce.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendment will be stated.

The SECRETARY. It is proposed to insert as a new section the following: SEC. 11. A person to be designated by the Secretary of State shall be appointed to formulate for the instruction of consular officers the requests of the Secretary of Commerce, and to prepare from the dispatches of consular oflicer, for transmission to the Secretary of Commerce, such information as pertains to the work of the Department of Commerce, and such person shall have the rank and salary of a chief of bureau and be furnished with such clerical assistance as may be deemed necessary by the Secretary of State.

Mr. Bacon. Mr. President, I should like to inquire of the Senator from Massachusetts whether the powers therein conferred upon this new officer in any manner differ from the powers now enjoyed by the officer whom it is sought to replace?

Mr. Lodge. The whole Bureau of Foreign Commerce in the State Department, which has now charge of the consular reports, is by this bill transferred to the Department of Commerce.

Mr. Bacon, I so understand.

Mr. LODGE. And the Secretary of State, as I understand, needs somebody to do the work which the bill imposes on his Department; that is, to go over all these consular reports, separate the commercial part and send it to the new Department, and also to transmit to the consuls their instructions, the object being to retain the work of editing the consular reports in the State Department, which I think is very essential, because that is the diplomatic and political Department.

Mr. Bacon. I quite agree with the Senator, and I quite understood from what he had previously stated what he now says; but that does not reply to the inquiry which I made, which was whether the numerous powers and duties in the amendment offered by the Senator, which are to be enjoyed by the new officer created by the amendment, in any manner differ from the powers and privileges now enjoyed by the officer who is to be transferred to the Department of Commerce. What I desire to know is, whether this amendment clothes the new officer of the Department of Commerce with the same powers which the officer now in charge of that Bureau in the State Department has.

Mr. LODGE. That, I understand, is the purpose and object of the amendment. Of course, the work now is all done in the State Department, and, as I understand it, the head of the Bureau of Foreign Commerce, under the direction of one of the assistant secretaries, edits these reports for publication. The commercial portions are all published by the Department. Those portions which it is considered inadvisable to publish are held in manuscript in the Department. The officer who does that, if I am correctly informed, is to be transferred to the Department of Commerce, where he will be simply a compiler of statistics, and the duties in the way of editing and separating the political and diplomatic information require a new officer for their performance in the State Department.

Mr. Bacon. I certainly am extremely unfortunate that I can not express myself in such a manner that the Senator will catch the purport of my inquiry. It is my fault, I suppose.

Mr. Longe. I beg the Senator's pardon. It is my slowness of apprehension, I have no doubt.

Mr. BACON. Taking all the fault to myself, I will repeat the inquiry. It is not as to the necessity for this new officer. I did not ask that. I recognize that from what the Senator has stated. But the amendment offered by the Senator confers certain powers on and enumerates certain duties of the new officer. The inquiry I make of the Senator is this: Are those cluties and those powers the same as the duties and the powers of the chief of this Bureau which is to be transferred to the new Department, or does this amendment confer upon the new officer other duties and other powers, which the present officer does not enjoy?

Mr. LODGE. I understand that all those powers are now existent in the officer of the State Department.

Mr. Bacon. One other question, Mr. President. Though I think that ought to be carefully looked into, I think the Senator ought to be able to state definitely whether it is som

Mr. Lodge. If the Senator wants me to put the language more strongly, I will say
I know that to be the case.
Mr. Bacon. That is entirely satisfactory.

Mr. LODGE. Except, of course, it is modified, as the Senator understands, by the fact that these statistics are to go to the new Department instead of being published by the old one.

Mr. Bacon. I understand, but one other inquiry. Of course we have not the amendment before us, and can only catch it from the reading at the desk. Does this amendment confer any rank upon the new officer other than that enjoyed by the present officer?

Mr. LODGE. It makes him the chief of a bureau.
Mr. Bacon. What is the position of the present officer?

Mr. LODGE. The present officer is the chief of a bureau, who, of course, acts under the direction of one of the Assistant Secretaries of State.

Mr. Bacon. As this one will also? Mr. Lodge. As this one will also. Mr. SPOONER. I should like to have the amendment again read. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendment will be again stated. The SECRETARY. It is proposed to insert as a new section the following: Sec. 11. A person to be designated by the Secretary of State shall be appointed to formulate for the instruction of consular officers the requests of the Secretary of Commerce and to prepare from the dispatches of consular officers, for transmission to the Secretary of Commerce, such information as pertains to the work of the Department of Commerce, and such person shall have the rank and salary of a Chief of Bureau and be furnished with such clerical assistance as may be deemed necessary by the Secretary of State.

Mr. HALE. Mr. President, somewhere in the bill that I saw as originally reported was a provision that our consuls at foreign ports should report to the Secretary of this new Department.

Mr. SPOONER. That is on page 5.

Mr. Hale. That seemed to me to be faulty. Now, if the object of the Senator from Massachusetts (Mr. Lodge) is to cure that defect, he has in view precisely what I had, as to which I had proposed to offer an amendment-that instead of the consular officers, who are officers of the State Department and appointed by the State Department, as they ought to be, and reporting to the State Department, as it seems to me they ought to do, the provision originally, as I understood it, was that they should have a divided allegiance and report directly to another Department, which seemed to me not a good thing to do. As I understand this amendment, instead of that the Senator proposes that this information shall be gathered by the consuls as ñow and reported to the State Department as now, and that the Secretary of State shall then, in some way that is prescribed, communicate this information, these facts, and these statistics for the information of the new Secretary. Is that the purpose?

Mr. LODGE. That is my purpose. I think perhaps the Senator from Maine was not here when certain amendments of mine on page 5 were adopted, to which this amendment is supplementary.

Mr. Hale. No, I was not here. What is that amendment on page 5?
Mr. LODGE. On page 5 the bill has been so amended as to read:

And all consular officers of the United States, including consul-generals, consuls, and commercial agents, are hereby required, and it is made a part of their duty, under the direction of the Secretary of State

Mr. HALE. That is the provision to which I allude.

Mr. LODGE. The Senate has stricken out the word “commerce" and inserted the word “State," so as to read: “Secretary of State." I am reading the provision as it has been amended.

Mr. Hale. That is proper.

Mr. LODGE. The clause continues to gather and compile, from time to time, upon the request of the Secretary of Commerce, useful and material information and statistics in respect to the commerce, industries, and markets of the countries and places to which such consular officers are accredited, and to send, under direction of the Secretary of State, reports quarterly, or oftener if required, of the information and statistics thus gathered and compiled, to the Secretary of the Department of Commerce.

So that it relieves them from two masters. Mr. Hale. And does not in any way impair or undermine either the duties or dignities of the office of Secretary of State?

Mr. Lodge. Certainly not.
Mr. Hale. I think that ought not to be done.

Mr. Lodge. It leaves him entirely in control of the consular service, as he ought to be, and authorizes the Secretary of the new Department of Commerce to say: "I want such and such information," and then the Department of State transmits it to the Department of Commerce. This is to permit an officer to do the work of editing and separating the consular reports.

Mr. Hale. I think, then, the bill has been very greatly improved. The State Department has not much real business to do, except in relation to the consular seryice. The diplomatic part—the part that is performed by ambassadors, ministers, and ministers resident-is more a matter of negotiation, which is ordinarily done outside of these offices; but the time when the State Department touches real business, the transaction of business of commerce in relation to which our citizens abroad have any interest, all comes under the consular service, and it is about all, as I have said, of real business that there is in the State Department. I should not, for one, be willing to consent that the duties of the Secretary of State or his responsibilities or his dignity should be impaired, and I was proposing to offer a similar amendment, which the Senator has done in much better form than I could have done it. To that extent I think it improves the bill.

Of course, Mr. President, the bill is what I would call a very great enterprise very suddenly launched upon us. That makes a larger department than any one left in the Government. If I may be permitted to say it, it does not begin in a modest way, but it ransacks all the departments, selects bureau after bureau without apparent reason, dumps them into this bill, and makes a new Department and a new Secretary, with larger duties than any other Cabinet minister.

The administrative duties of the Secretary of the Treasury, after his Department has been stripped and ransacked will not be as great as those of this new Secretary. He takes charge of these great bureaus that have from the time of the establishment of the Government been in the Treasury Department and, so far as I know, satisfactorily administered.

The bill is called “A bill to establish the Department of Commerce," and the subjects-matter that are in it have not so much relation to commerce as light has to darkness. Why should the Census Bureau-a pure matter of internal consequence, internal business, in a great Department dealing with the internal affairs of the country, the population of the country-why should that be put into the Department of Commerce? Before the bill is concluded-I am waiting now for the figures and statistics--I hope to be able to show that if the Coast and Geodetic Survey, dealing with science, not with commerce, is to be taken from the Treasury, it should not be put into this Department, but into the Navy Department.

Mr. Nelson. If the Senator will allow me to interrupt him-
Mr. HALE. Certainly.

Mr. Nelson. We have been perfecting the bill by amendments, and I was coming to that feature of the bill, and was going to submit the question as to the Coast and Geodetic Survey to the Senate. I understand-if I am not taking up the time of the Senator

Mr. HALE. I yield with great pleasure. Mr. NELSON. I understand there has been some controversy between the Treasury Department and the Department of the Navy as to that matter. In view of that fact, it is my impression that we had better leave it out of this bill and leave the question to be settled subsequently as to whether it should remain in the Treasury or go to the Navy Department. To be candid and to express my own individual opinion, in view of the work which that Bureau or branch of the service performs, I think its duties would be more appropriate and more germane to the Department of the Navy; and if the Senator will allow me and has no objection I will move to strike that out of the bill.

Mr. HALE. I have no objection, but we are eliminating so much here that we had better make one mouthful of it and transfer that Bureau to the Navy Department. The truth is—I will not interrupt the Senator, of courseMr. NELSON. The Senator is entitled to the floor, not I.

Mr. HALE. The truth is, that we are getting to have half a dozen different navies, Mr. President, and we ought not to. We have got a navy in the Life-Saving Service; we have got a navy in the Light-House Board; we bave got a navy in the RevenueCutter Service; we have got a navy in the Marine-Hospital Service; we have got a navy in the Coast and Geodetic Survey, and I suspect it will not be long before my

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